I don’t get the hate that Josh Allen gets around here.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

I just think you have to be realistic about Allen.

 

The Dallas game this year was a high point of his career. The anticipation throw to Cole Beasley in the Red Zone, the pass he threaded out of his own end zone. Real growth, real playmaking throws. When he has time/protection to load up and fire the football straight down the football field, I saw a better QB.

 

But the goal isn’t improvement relative to a bottom of the league rookie self, he needs to be better than a good percentage of his peers. You’re in a conference with Patrick Mahomes, Deshaun Watson, Lamar Jackson, Ben Roethlisberger and so on.
 

The Playoff game showed it’s still a struggle for Josh to orchestrate more than 19-20 ppg. After the hot start, the completion percentage dipped back into the 50’s and the fumbles picked up.

 

So going into Year 3, he’s not in the bottom tier of NFL passers, but he’s not better than half the league until he shows it. At the end of the day, our offense comes up short in big games (Patriots x2, Ravens, Texans). 

[Another Fan]

Hate?  If anything over the years it seems like his poop doesn’t smell if you read these boards.

 

He has the intangible stuff down very well: good teammate, hard worker, says all the right things, and seems to genuinely love Buffalo.

 

Theres still some things he does he can improve upon.   I don’t wanna say criticisms because I don’t he’s awful at anything.  The long passes come to mind and his body language at times.  There’s still times I think the moment looks too big for him now.   But all is correctable with time 

[Mr. K]

I wouldnt say its even hate. A s*** ton of fans want to see more. I dont think one of us would say he is a finished product. Yeah the hero ball and the accuracy need to be improved. We dont have a surgeon at QB but a playmaker. We all knew what prospect we were going to have throwing the ball and we should all know his baseline at this point. This is the make it or break it year for me personally.  Not hate but tempered expectations. Nobody wants another flop at that position.

[Hampton Josh fan]

On 4/4/2020 at 7:32 AM, MOVALLEYRANDY said:

Just because he wears the best uniforms in the league doesn't mean he IS good. He is like an untamable stallion. Making plays that are great and others that are stupid. So I'm a BIG "NOT". and I have been a fan since 1965 and want to see a Lombardi before I die. It will be tough with this guy.

A unequivocal talent evaluation at this point, 2 years in, starting right out of the  gate, making the playoffs,  makes you someone not to be taken seriously. Perhaps you expect the kid to be in the Super bowl by now. A fan since 65, after the mediocrity you've lived with, give me a break. 

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

1 hour ago, Hampton Josh fan said:

A unequivocal talent evaluation at this point, 2 years in, starting right out of the  gate, making the playoffs,  makes you someone not to be taken seriously. Perhaps you expect the kid to be in the Super bowl by now. A fan since 65, after the mediocrity you've lived with, give me a break. 

Don't hit me with your pom-poms

[DuckyBoys]

Comes down to unrealistic expectations.  He was a raw prospect who really should have sat all of 2018.  Also we have delusions of where a young qb should be due to Mahomes immediate success (and yes I know he sat year 1) Some of us are satisfied with where he is and some obviously are not.  My take is he improves again this coming season.  There are games he frustrates me but I really do think he is the franchise guy going forward.  Bills could have been delaying his development by hiding his weaknesses but they have not done that.  If anything their game plans / play calling often have put him in more unfavorable conditions.  Hopefully he becomes a more battle tested complete qb over the next two seasons while he's cheap against the cap .  I think he's worth the patience  How many qb's are the talent/ ceiling level equal or greater to his?  It's a short ist

[Hampton Josh fan]

58 minutes ago, MOVALLEYRANDY said:

Don't hit me with your pom-poms

You're looking for something that doesn't exist. A first round QB, runs 4+ years unless he sucks. Just jump on the JA train and try and go against your natural inclination to think everyone on your team will fail. The alternative is some journeyman you'll say stinks also.

[iinii]

On 4/7/2020 at 3:51 PM, Don Otreply said:

Ah, the difference is that the majority here know we are not right all the time, so no, no it doesn’t. 
 

Go Bills!!!

Don’t count on it. The majority? Knows when their wrong? What is in the Kool-aid exactly?

[Don Otreply]

7 hours ago, iinii said:

Don’t count on it. The majority? Knows when their wrong? What is in the Kool-aid exactly?

Clarity my friend, clarity...

 

Go Bills!!!

[FireChans]

19 hours ago, Hampton Josh fan said:

A unequivocal talent evaluation at this point, 2 years in, starting right out of the  gate, making the playoffs,  makes you someone not to be taken seriously. Perhaps you expect the kid to be in the Super bowl by now. A fan since 65, after the mediocrity you've lived with, give me a break. 

Patrick Mahomes won MVP his 2nd year and a Super Bowl in his 3rd. Tick tock.

[Hampton Josh fan]

46 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Patrick Mahomes won MVP his 2nd year and a Super Bowl in his 3rd. Tick tock.

That's sounds right, a delusional fan, who has lived in mediocrity his whole life expecting  a HOF QB to fall out of the sky. Here's the good news.We don't need JA17 to be Mahomes. This team just has to improve every year and JA will be good enough to take us to the promised land. Can he be ELI, or Foles or Flacco or Dilfer. In 58 years we've had 1 HOF QB. Zero rings.

[oldmanfan]

He improved from year one to year two.  There is no reason to expect that he won’t continue to improve in year three.  He has work to do of course as do most young QBs, still some negatives to work on.  But his future is bright.  The vast majority on this board understand this; that he has positives and negatives although some slant more either way.

 

Now I have been challenged on my statement that there are some who would like to see Allen not work out do they can say they were right about him (GreggTX, jrober, and check any game day chat room for others).  There is a rich history of QBs getting slammed, however.

 

I have watched Buffalo Bills football since 1960 when I was 5 years old.  And this stuff has gone on constantly.  Warren Rabb vs. Johnny Greene.  Kemp vs. Lamonica.  Shaw and Harris.  Ferguson and Marangi.  The cast of idiots in the early 80’s before Kelly.  Jelly was by far the best QB we ever had and by far the one everyone agreed in, but even then you had a few people saying Reich should have QBs a SB or two.  Then Johnson and Flutie.  .  Edwards and Losman and Holcomb.  Then time to blast EJ.  Then blast Orton.  Then Fitz.  And now folks (some, certainly not all) have it in their minds Allen doesn’t cut it.

 

The one great constant in Bills football, the Kelly years being the exception, is that fans are never satisfied with their QB, that it’s always the backup or the next guy that is the guy we need. Allen may be, maybe not.  But it’s clearly too soon to make any kind of definitive pronouncement.  I can only surmise those who seek to criticize every thing a second year QB has done, every single pass, every single decision do so as a kind of defense mechanism and/or to try and justify a prediction they made.  Hope I’m wrong.

 

For the record I think it’s 70/30 he’s our long term answer.

[SCBills]

I think the Playoff Game is the perfect synopsis of Allen right now.  
 

A lot of good.  Some bad.  Many outside Buffalo only focus on the bad.  
 

For most of the game, the announcers were lauding how composed and on-point Allen was.... and he was.  Then the culmination of his supporting cast letting him down forced him into one of his current Achilles heels.... “trying to do too much”. 
 

Duke dropped a TD.  Brown failed to execute a routine toe tap. The defense inexplicably fell apart. 
 

We got stuck in the mud and Allen, in his first playoff game, let it get to him.  
 

Even then, Allen executes a game winning drive if any of the 3 blockers in front of him tag that Texans Linebacker.  

[FireChans]

30 minutes ago, Hampton Josh fan said:

That's sounds right, a delusional fan, who has lived in mediocrity his whole life expecting  a HOF QB to fall out of the sky. Here's the good news.We don't need JA17 to be Mahomes. This team just has to improve every year and JA will be good enough to take us to the promised land. Can he be ELI, or Foles or Flacco or Dilfer. In 58 years we've had 1 HOF QB. Zero rings.

I don’t expect a HoF QB to fall out of the sky. I didn’t have to, one of them fell to pick #10 in the 2017 draft.

 

I hope Josh wins a Super Bowl. I also hope he’s a better QB than Dilfer.

[iinii]

2 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

Clarity my friend, clarity...

 

Go Bills!!!

Your answer just confirms my belief that the Kool-aid is loaded with righteous indignation. 

[Don Otreply]

37 minutes ago, iinii said:

Your answer just confirms my belief that the Kool-aid is loaded with righteous indignation. 

 Get off that horse... nuthin but luv, ?? righteous indignation is for those that are easily offended.... one day I’ll buy you a beer and we can try to convince each other that we are wrong. Oh and there will be penalty shots when stupid stuff is said, so we will both be drunk as hell in thirty minutes, ?

 

Go Bills!!!

[SoTier]

On 4/5/2020 at 11:52 AM, oldmanfan said:

Beane admitted they should have brought a vet like Anderson in earlier.  How long do you want to stomp on the corpse of this issue?

 

The Bills' FO and HC's actions in 2018 are hardly "ancient history" that have no bearing on their evaluations going forward, especially if Allen and/or the team don't take their next steps this season or next. .  Beane and McDermott have managed to make the playoffs twice in 3 seasons and they've actually won 10 games in a single season for the first time in this century, but they only have two poor losses in the wild card round to show for that.  When -- if -- the Bills become a perennial playoff team and bonafide SB contender under Beane and McDermott with Allen as their QB then their repeated errors in 2018 will cease to matter.

 

42 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Patrick Mahomes won MVP his 2nd year and a Super Bowl in his 3rd. Tick tock.

 

It's hardly "unrealistic expectations" for QBs who are something special to show that talent early.   The Allen cheerleaders on this thread like to pretend that great QBs putting in outstanding performances very early in their careers is a recent phenomenon, but it's not.  

• 1999 - Peyton Manning took the Colts to the AFCE division title as a sophomore.
• 2001 -Tom Brady took the Pats to a Lombardi in his first year as a starter. 
• 2005 - Ben Roethlisberger took the Steelers to a Super Bowl win in his second season.
• 2008 - Matt Ryan took the Falcons to the playoffs as a rookie.
• 2012 -Andrew Luck led the Colts to the playoffs as a rookie and just about every year that he was healthy afterward.
• 2013 - Russell Wilson led the Seahawks to a Super Bowl win as a sophomore after taking them to the NFC title game as a rookie. 
• 2017 - Carson Wentz was the leading candidate for MVP in his sophomore season before injury sidelined him. 
• 2018 - Mahomes was the league MVP in his first year as a starter and took the Chiefs to the AFC Championship and Deshaun Watson led the Texans to the playoffs as a sophomore after playing in only 7 games as rookie because of injury.
• 2019 - Lamar Jackson, from the same class as Allen and taken 22 spots later at the very end of the first round,  was an almost unanimous choice for MVP. 

 

Not all great/elite QBs find success in their first or second years in the league  -- Brees and Rodgers are two that come to mind immediately -- but by the time they've had two or three years as starters, if they aren't top NFL QBs, they aren't likely to become so.   Bortles, Winston, and Mariota are prime examples.   We're seeing more young QBs excellent (or fail) earlier now simply because teams are more willing to play their young QBs rather than have them sit behind a starter for a season or two.

 

[Da webster guy]

On 4/5/2020 at 10:23 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

Our schedule is a lot tougher. I honestly don't buy this "it is impossible to know" stuff. I have only once in 8 seasons on this forum been more than a game out on Buffalo's final record (2015 I had 10-6 but Rex scraped his way to 8-8). I called 12 of the 16 games right last year. I am not trying to suggest I am some sort of genius. I most definitely am not. It just isn't that hard if you are paying attention to the NFL as a whole and not just to the Bills. You will miss on one or two teams every year (I had San Fran as a .500 team in 2019) but if you are paying attention you won't miss on many.  

Thats an incredible run, considering it can be skewed by injuries, slumps, even week 17 meaningless games (who woulda thought Buffalo and Tenn would be sitting everyone in their final week?) Big Ben, Andrew Luck, Tannehill all did things impossible to predict.  Lamar Jackson becomes a better passer than Brady.  The list goes on. 

I saw a cool article on the 2019 NFL season that ESPN’s win-probability model gave a 60-40 (or narrower) split at any point with five or fewer minutes left in regulation.  63 of the NFL's 256 games fell within this threshold.

In these games, missed kicks, a single penalty or bounce of the ball can determine a W or L.  

If you're 7 for 8 seasons within a 1 game margin on the Bills, first I'd say congrats, then I'd say there's a significant element of luck in there. 

Funny the only NFL prop bet I took last year was the Niners under 8.5 wins, that was over by like week 10.

 

 

[Deranged Rhino]

Kyler Murray the early popular 2020 MVP bet with Tom Brady and a surprise quarterback behind him

They may not have the best odds, but here is who bettors are high on to win the NFL MVP award in 2020

T2. Josh Allen, Buffalo Bills, 50/1 odds, (8 percent of tickets)

This has to be the most surprising name in the top three. Allen threw for 3,089 yards, 20 touchdowns, and nine interceptions as he led the Bills to a 10-6 record and their second playoff berth in the last three years. They did choke in the AFC wild-card game against the Texans, but that's not a fair representation of how Buffalo's season actually went. The Bills had the No. 3 defense in the league last year when it came to yards allowed per game, and they rode that unit all the way to the playoffs. Allen's nine rushing touchdowns didn't hurt Buffalo either. You can say he was more of a game manager in 2019, but with the cannon-like arm Allen has and the mobility he possesses, many figure he will take a big step forward in year three.

Another reason to be high on Allen is that he finally has a true No. 1 wideout for the first time in his career. The Bills made a big trade for former Minnesota Vikings star wideout Stefon Diggs, who has recorded two straight 1,000-yard receiving seasons. Don't sleep on the Bills in 2020. With Tom Brady now in the NFC South, they might be the favorites to win the division. 

Interestingly enough, Allen has also racked up the highest percent of dollars wagered in Vegas so far (22 percent), following by Dak Prescott (25/1 odds, 18 percent) and Murray (20/1 odds, 14 percent). 

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/kyler-murray-the-early-popular-2020-mvp-bet-with-tom-brady-and-a-surprise-quarterback-behind-him/

[njbuff]

1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said:

Kyler Murray the early popular 2020 MVP bet with Tom Brady and a surprise quarterback behind him

They may not have the best odds, but here is who bettors are high on to win the NFL MVP award in 2020

T2. Josh Allen, Buffalo Bills, 50/1 odds, (8 percent of tickets)

This has to be the most surprising name in the top three. Allen threw for 3,089 yards, 20 touchdowns, and nine interceptions as he led the Bills to a 10-6 record and their second playoff berth in the last three years. They did choke in the AFC wild-card game against the Texans, but that's not a fair representation of how Buffalo's season actually went. The Bills had the No. 3 defense in the league last year when it came to yards allowed per game, and they rode that unit all the way to the playoffs. Allen's nine rushing touchdowns didn't hurt Buffalo either. You can say he was more of a game manager in 2019, but with the cannon-like arm Allen has and the mobility he possesses, many figure he will take a big step forward in year three.

Another reason to be high on Allen is that he finally has a true No. 1 wideout for the first time in his career. The Bills made a big trade for former Minnesota Vikings star wideout Stefon Diggs, who has recorded two straight 1,000-yard receiving seasons. Don't sleep on the Bills in 2020. With Tom Brady now in the NFC South, they might be the favorites to win the division. 

Interestingly enough, Allen has also racked up the highest percent of dollars wagered in Vegas so far (22 percent), following by Dak Prescott (25/1 odds, 18 percent) and Murray (20/1 odds, 14 percent). 

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/kyler-murray-the-early-popular-2020-mvp-bet-with-tom-brady-and-a-surprise-quarterback-behind-him/

 

I think we would all want Allen to win SBMVP rather than the league MVP, if we had a choice, of course.

 

?