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DrDawkinstein

More Bills Love: "Stefon Diggs... makes the Bills competitive with the Chiefs and Ravens"

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46 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

You know, I used to subscribe to this kind of thinking, and I think there's a lot of merit to this approach.

 

But that is NOT how McBeane are operating.   I don't think you'll see them making player personnel decisions based on the strengths of opponents, especially opponents outside the AFCE.  

 

They're approach is to build a team that plays football really well, that is really good at adapting their play week-to-week to address the next challenge.  In some ways, their approach is like the approach John Wooden and other good coaches have taken:  we're going to be really good at what we do, and we'll let other teams worry about how to match up with us.  

 

Beane isn't taking a DB in round 2 because KC has good receivers.   Beane's taking BPA in round 2 and challenging other teams to beat the Bills with his rookie round 2 BPA guy on the field.  

Every team in the league is doing this.

 

And there's nothing wrong with assembling a team to beat teams outside of the AFCE (those are their playoff competitors).

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3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Definitely compete with Ravens.  Not sure about KC.  Tons of weapons there  and orders of magnitude better at play calling on Offense.

Yeh I mean, we were competitive w/Ravens last season (mostly on account of defense limiting damage Jackson could do) but not sure the offense is up to a shootout against offense like Chiefs YET...Mahomes and co going to be scoring points no matter how well our defense plays imo.

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Posted (edited)

I'm just going to be shouting "Can you dig it?!?!" Each time he makes an amazing play.  I'm so pumped up about it. 

Edited by Lfod

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16 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

You are right at the end of the day the Bills have to prove it on the field. This does however feel different from the Rex days. Beane has done a good job adding talent to the roster and the same for McDermott with coaching the players. Both are building/coaching the Bills the right way. Two playoff appearances in the last 3 years. Coming off a 10 win season for the first time in a long time. Expectations are going to be sky high in WNY with Bills are rightfully so.

 

Agreed, this is different from the Rex days. I've been saying that for years. It reminds me a lot of the Polian years and how he and Marv built that team. All I'm saying is I've seen people from all walks of life get derailed by placing too much stock in early success. I'm not saying that's going to happen here with McBeane, in fact that's a danger McDermott talks about all the time and the need to keep working. 

 

7 minutes ago, Billl said:

What does that even mean?  Diggs is a proven commodity who put up big numbers catching passes from Case Keenum and Kirk Cousins.  What “process” does he have to buy into in order to make a difference?

 

If you haven't grasped how critical culture is to the success of a team then you've missed how teams like the Steelers, Patriots produce year in year out. We are where we are today because the Bills have changed the culture. If you are going to come back with those teams have great quarterbacks I'd remind you how the Steelers challenged for a playoff spot last year with the Duck, and how the Pats went 3-1 when Brady was suspended in 2015. The Falcons have a talented QB but their results don't measure up to his potential. If Diggs buys in to the team first culture and does create distractions (because he thinks he isn't getting enough catches) then he'll be an excellent addition. I'm not saying he won't but until he does I can't say that he has bought in.

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1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

You know, I used to subscribe to this kind of thinking, and I think there's a lot of merit to this approach.

 

But that is NOT how McBeane are operating.   I don't think you'll see them making player personnel decisions based on the strengths of opponents, especially opponents outside the AFCE.  

 

They're approach is to build a team that plays football really well, that is really good at adapting their play week-to-week to address the next challenge.  In some ways, their approach is like the approach John Wooden and other good coaches have taken:  we're going to be really good at what we do, and we'll let other teams worry about how to match up with us.  

 

Beane isn't taking a DB in round 2 because KC has good receivers.   Beane's taking BPA in round 2 and challenging other teams to beat the Bills with his rookie round 2 BPA guy on the field.  


Oh, agreed, I just think CB2 could be in play as BPA where we pick in the 2nd Round.  
 

If it’s a reach, then I absolutely would not want Beane simply taking a CB that early just because we have to beat the Chiefs. 

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25 minutes ago, ProcessAccepted said:

 

If you haven't grasped how critical culture is to the success of a team then you've missed how teams like the Steelers, Patriots produce year in year out. We are where we are today because the Bills have changed the culture. If you are going to come back with those teams have great quarterbacks I'd remind you how the Steelers challenged for a playoff spot last year with the Duck, and how the Pats went 3-1 when Brady was suspended in 2015. The Falcons have a talented QB but their results don't measure up to his potential. If Diggs buys in to the team first culture and does create distractions (because he thinks he isn't getting enough catches) then he'll be an excellent addition. I'm not saying he won't but until he does I can't say that he has bought in.

 

We've had 3 years of culture building already. If McD's culture cant handle a player like Diggs, who isnt even that bad as far as some players in the league go, then it's all meaningless anyways.

 

You mention the Falcons. They all talk about "the brotherhood" down here and how their locker room is one of the closest in the league. That culture didnt do squat for them last year.

 

Diggs gripe in Minn wasnt about his catches. ALL the WRs had a problem when they moved to a run-first scheme, and their offense went into the crapper. Once they shifted back to letting Cousins throw, they started winning and everyone was happy. So the players were right in that instance.

 

Here's a prime example of Diggs being a distraction and demanding the ball:

 

 

Oh wait, it sounds like he just wants to win.

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24 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

We've had 3 years of culture building already. If McD's culture cant handle a player like Diggs, who isnt even that bad as far as some players in the league go, then it's all meaningless anyways.

 

You mention the Falcons. They all talk about "the brotherhood" down here and how their locker room is one of the closest in the league. That culture didnt do squat for them last year.

 

 

I've abbreviated your response for space sake. Couple of things:

 

1. Yes we've had 3 years of culture building and we've already had more way more success that the previous 17 years. You sound like culture is a burden. Culture is necessary and I like supporting a winning team.

 

2. I live in Atlanta. I hear the talk and the talk and the talk. The Falcons are all talk. They are a soft bend AND break team that lacks a winning culture.

 

Bonus point: I get that players want to win and speak out as a result. That is great and needed but needs to be kept internal and in the locker room. I'm not saying that Diggs is not a team player, I'm saying that he needs to be if we are going to see the kind of jump that his talent makes possible. 

 

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Just now, ProcessAccepted said:

 

I've abbreviated your response for space sake. Couple of things:

 

1. Yes we've had 3 years of culture building and we've already had more way more success that the previous 17 years. You sound like culture is a burden. Culture is necessary and I like supporting a winning team.

 

2. I live in Atlanta. I hear the talk and the talk and the talk. The Falcons are all talk. They are a soft bend AND break team that lacks a winning culture.

 

Bonus point: I get that players want to win and speak out as a result. That is great and needed but needs to be kept internal and in the locker room. I'm not saying that Diggs is not a team player, I'm saying that he needs to be if we are going to see the kind of jump that his talent makes possible. 

 

 

1. I love culture building, and love what McD has done in resetting the entire aura in OBD! My point is illustrating that it should be well strong enough to absorb a player like Diggs, who isnt even that bad.

 

2. You come to Whitehall ever?!?

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16 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

1. I love culture building, and love what McD has done in resetting the entire aura in OBD! My point is illustrating that it should be well strong enough to absorb a player like Diggs, who isnt even that bad.

 

2. You come to Whitehall ever?!?

My original point was about winning the offseason 😂 I love the Diggs pickup just tired the winning free agency stuff when it doesn't mean anything. I am excited to see Diggs Brown and Beasley tearing it up. Never made it to Whitehall Tavern. I'm OTP and drink too much during games. There's a place called The Standard in downtown Roswell where I watch.  They hang a Bills flag 24*7 outside the front door and a healthy number of Bills fans there every Sunday. Plus they've got good beer too!!!

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We can be the top team in the AFC.  Talent-wise, we're there w/ the Ravens & Chiefs.

 

Allen is the key.  Can he make a Lamar Jackson-type leap in his 3rd year? 

 

Personally, I think he is woefully underestimated.  On more "national" sports boards, he's still seen as sort of a more competitive Jamarcus Russell - big arm, but can't hit the broad side of the barn.  

 

I haven't seen that.  He's obsessed w/ correcting his mistakes, and he doesn't suffer from that "zip code accuracy" thing that they used to characterize EJ with.  Aside from some notable long throws that were pretty errant, his short & mid-range accuracy has been very good.  

 

He's also a "big game" type player.  His best games were the Cowboys on Thanksgiving, Pittsburgh (only night game), and the Houston playoff game, at least until the lateral. 

 

I really think he's going to emerge as one of the AFC's best this coming season.  

 

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7 minutes ago, ProcessAccepted said:

My original point was about winning the offseason 😂 I love the Diggs pickup just tired the winning free agency stuff when it doesn't mean anything. I am excited to see Diggs Brown and Beasley tearing it up. Never made it to Whitehall Tavern. I'm OTP and drink too much during games. There's a place called The Standard in downtown Roswell where I watch.  They hang a Bills flag 24*7 outside the front door and a healthy number of Bills fans there every Sunday. Plus they've got good beer too!!!

 

Yeah, I'm familiar with The Standard. Dallas (the owner) went rogue from Whitehall and opened his own place and made it a Bills bar without even consulting the club first. Some mixed feelings on that.

 

Uber it to Whitehall! We got them to revamp their wings last offseason and they are now truly some of the best in town. After a couple of off years at Whitehall it was a blast again, especially with all the winning.

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4 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

You know, I've never listened much to Orlovsky, and I see comments like this all the time.   Connecticut boy!

 

I'll go look for him. 

 

The interesting thing about Orlovsky is that he was a BIG Josh Allen detractor at the time of the draft, really down on his chances of succeeding in the NFL. But Josh has won him over with his play the last two years and now he is on the Allen bandwagon (but while he will point out where Josh has improved and is "getting it," he will still point out where Josh needs to improve further, so he's fair).

 

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1 hour ago, ProcessAccepted said:

 

You sound like culture is a burden. Culture is necessary and I like supporting a winning team.

 

 

 

Outstanding point!  Don't think I've ever heard anyone say that.  

 

Every team has a culture.  But not every culture is a winning culture.   McDermott is trying to build and maintain a winning culture. 

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3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

That's a very interesting take, and you might be right.   Maybe Allen already is a really good NFL QB and the problem has been that he's had a substandard group of players around him.  

 

I've been saying for a week what you said - the receiving corps got better at 3 positions with Diggs being added.

 

And Singletary should be a mature NFL back.  And the oline should be better. 

 

But just watching Allen tells me that a big part of the problem with the offense has been Allen, not the other 10.  His job is to to get everything right, every play.   That's presnap reads, postsnap reads, decision making, pocket presence, mechanics.   It's all gotta be right, and last year he didn't look to me like he had all of that under control yet.   He didn't perform, play after play, the way Brees or Rodgers or Brady perform, play after play.   I don't think it was about the supporting cast.   I think it was Allen.

 

I think he will improve.   He's still growing and learning, and he has the right attitude about it.   

 

The improved supporting cast will cause his play to improve, for sure, but I think he has to grow, too.   If he doesn't grow, I don't think the surrounding cast will make the Bills a big winner.

I hope the bold is true and that Singletary has shown to the FO to be a mature NFL back. 

 

Then maybe the Bills can view DS as the veteran RB2 and draft another to split time with him.  The past few years the Bills vet RB has kind of stunk.  Gore and the last year of Shady were pathetic plodders who I think were here to offer veteran leadership - because I certainly hope it wasn't for on field performance.

 

Singletary and a top 5 RB seems like it would be a much better RB situation than last year.  Much  like the cascading effect of adding Diggs as a WR1 makes the whole WRs better, adding a top 5 RB would not only put in that talent but would increase the RB2 with Singletary > Gore (or for this year a D Foreman type).

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6 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

The Bills were competitive with the Ravens last season without Diggs.

not sure if its been addressed , but that  non-call 12 men on the field really hurt.. and as you said.. the game was there  

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24 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I hope the bold is true and that Singletary has shown to the FO to be a mature NFL back. 

 

Then maybe the Bills can view DS as the veteran RB2 and draft another to split time with him.  The past few years the Bills vet RB has kind of stunk.  Gore and the last year of Shady were pathetic plodders who I think were here to offer veteran leadership - because I certainly hope it wasn't for on field performance.

 

Singletary and a top 5 RB seems like it would be a much better RB situation than last year.  Much  like the cascading effect of adding Diggs as a WR1 makes the whole WRs better, adding a top 5 RB would not only put in that talent but would increase the RB2 with Singletary > Gore (or for this year a D Foreman type).

Well, I think that's fine if you can find a top 5 RB, but it certainly isn't necessary and it isn't the same thing as what happened to the receivers.   Singletary was fourth in the league in yards per attempt, and he was decent in yards per reception.   His performance was fine as a #1 back; he just didn't get enough attempts.   So you can get more or less the same effect by getting an effective guy behind Singletary.   Doesn't have to be a top 5 or top 10 or even a top 20 running back.  

 

Most of the top 7-8 running backs weren't even on serious playoff teams.   Those guys are really good, no doubt, but being a top runner doesn't correlate with winning.   KC and SF didn't have a ball carrier close to the top 10.   Minnesota went more or less nowhere with Peterson all those years.   

 

Bills need someone to spell Singletary.  If they find someone who's a nice fit and effective, the guy can split time with Singletary.   But the guy doesn't have to be a star.   

 

If I could find a second Singletary, I'd take him in a heartbeat.   

 

There are any number of scenarios.   Imagine Christian Wade as Darren Sproles.   I know, I know, Christian Wade blah, blah, blah.   I get that, but he's tough, quick, fast and shifty, which is exactly what made Darren Sproles a spectacular number 2 back for about ten years.

 

The point is, there are a lot of guys who can be the #2 effectively.   It doesn't have to be Singletary as #2 to Saquon Barkley.  

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8 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Well, I think that's fine if you can find a top 5 RB, but it certainly isn't necessary and it isn't the same thing as what happened to the receivers.   Singletary was fourth in the league in yards per attempt, and he was decent in yards per reception.   His performance was fine as a #1 back; he just didn't get enough attempts.   So you can get more or less the same effect by getting an effective guy behind Singletary.   Doesn't have to be a top 5 or top 10 or even a top 20 running back.  

 

Most of the top 7-8 running backs weren't even on serious playoff teams.   Those guys are really good, no doubt, but being a top runner doesn't correlate with winning.   KC and SF didn't have a ball carrier close to the top 10.   Minnesota went more or less nowhere with Peterson all those years.   

 

Bills need someone to spell Singletary.  If they find someone who's a nice fit and effective, the guy can split time with Singletary.   But the guy doesn't have to be a star.   

 

If I could find a second Singletary, I'd take him in a heartbeat.   

 

There are any number of scenarios.   Imagine Christian Wade as Darren Sproles.   I know, I know, Christian Wade blah, blah, blah.   I get that, but he's tough, quick, fast and shifty, which is exactly what made Darren Sproles a spectacular number 2 back for about ten years.

 

The point is, there are a lot of guys who can be the #2 effectively.   It doesn't have to be Singletary as #2 to Saquon Barkley.  

I meant getting a top 5 RB in the draft  (which I think represents a tier).   Swift/Taylor/Dobbins/Edwards-Helaire/Akers.  I think those would be the splitting RBs - who actually might be better than Singletary.  One of those 5 and Singletary and that is a better backfield than last years Singletary/Gore.  Plus it is young and can stay and grow with Josh, giving him a core.

 

If Singletary can take the role of the veteran RB that Gore had, you can have  the cascading increase of Singletary > Gore, and drafted RB > Singletary.  And the offense should have a talent increase through two spots.  Singletary starts as RB1 but has real competition throughout the season.  And a team should have two good RBs anyway, just makes sense. 

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9 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I meant getting a top 5 RB in the draft  (which I think represents a tier).   Swift/Taylor/Dobbins/Edwards-Helaire/Akers.  I think those would be the splitting RBs - who actually might be better than Singletary.  One of those 5 and Singletary and that is a better backfield than last years Singletary/Gore.  Plus it is young and can stay and grow with Josh, giving him a core.

 

If Singletary can take the role of the veteran RB that Gore had, you can have  the cascading increase of Singletary > Gore, and drafted RB > Singletary.  And the offense should have a talent increase through two spots.  Singletary starts as RB1 but has real competition throughout the season.  And a team should have two good RBs anyway, just makes sense. 

OOH!!! Thanks for being patient with me.  I misunderstood.   

 

Absolutely agree there - a top 5 guy in the draft is a guy who should be able to help and who could even be Singletary's equal.  

 

Everything you say makes sense.   I think the Bills can get by with less than a top 5 guy, but a top 5 guy would be ideal, for all the reasons you say.  

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18 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

OOH!!! Thanks for being patient with me.  I misunderstood.   

 

Absolutely agree there - a top 5 guy in the draft is a guy who should be able to help and who could even be Singletary's equal.  

 

Everything you say makes sense.   I think the Bills can get by with less than a top 5 guy, but a top 5 guy would be ideal, for all the reasons you say.  

Right. I think one of the best things the Bills can do for Allen and the passing attack at this point would be to add another potentially elite RB. If we have Singletary and another one of the RBs the previous poster mentioned, we would be unreal. The defense wouldn’t be able to wear down our running game and they would be guessing and allowing our receivers to run clean routes. 

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7 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Right. I think one of the best things the Bills can do for Allen and the passing attack at this point would be to add another potentially elite RB. If we have Singletary and another one of the RBs the previous poster mentioned, we would be unreal. The defense wouldn’t be able to wear down our running game and they would be guessing and allowing our receivers to run clean routes. 

True. But it depends as much on the line as on the back.  Taiwan Jones is good enough if the line plays well.  Said for emphasis, not as my choice. 

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5 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Diggs route running and hands would have been useful on the last pass to brown at goal line.

 

Absolutely 

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While I agree that most 'national' writers are a tad clueless, focus mainly on big trades, and most simply parrot what they've heard, I see this Diggs acquisition the same way. Mega positive.

 

In the OP you point out lots of real Bills team flaws... but guess what? No team is without them! The difference between a W and a L in at least half the games is just a couple of plays in a game. Having Diggs help a LOT to open up all the offense, and make Josh (and Dabbol) better overall. Injuries can still derail the train, bad decisions, bad games, etc. But overall, hell yeah the odds are a lot better!

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