Mock with Dobbins in second...

[Alphadawg7]

6 hours ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

Well, guess what.  You don't see it too often because teams are putting in plodders for running backs and adjusting their schemes for that.  What you DON'T see is that a break-away home-run runner is schemed against. Defenses are run different. Linebackers protect areas against runs.  Defensive linemen have to control their gaps rather than pin their ears back and pass rush.  Safeties have to keep peeking into the backfield and into gaps in the line of scrimmage to check for the RB.  This results in other parts of the offense running better.  You don't see all of the effect of the game-changing RB by the number of long TD's.

 

League leader in runs over 40 yards last year was Nick Chubb with 4.  

 

Who cares.  

 

Devin was 9th on runs over 20 yards despite playing part time.  He was 3rd in the NFL in YPC.  I will take that over a guy who might run over 40 1-4 times a season.  Everything people are saying about explosive RB's is just not accurate.  Its MUCH MUCH harder to defend against a Devin than a straight line runner who really only hurts you if a big hole breaks...which we have seen only happened 4 times last year to the guy who led the league in it.  

 

Its a LOT harder to defend a guy like Singletary who can make guys miss, who has top end cut,  jump, and acceleration.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I think Higgins’ pretty poor athletic testing would be a big concern for me, but his production was certainly very good.  I’m just not a Shenault fan - to me he is an athlete without developed skill at any position and he is coming off surgery, so no chance for him to address concerns over his speed from the combine and his injury history is a risk.  I know that some people really like him and I could certainly be wrong.

 

Out of curiosity, why would you advocate for another WR in round 2 when they already essentially used their 1st on Stefon Diggs and have good 2 & 3 options in Brown and Beasley?  I can’t see a WR getting more playing time than another RB to pair with Singletary.

 

To be clear, I would only take a RB in round 2 if I thought that they were better prospects than could be had at DE and maybe CB, but I do think that is likely how it will fall.

 

 

 

Its a deep WR draft, and the talent available in round 2 of this draft could be comparable to round 1 of other years.  Rookie WR's tend not to contribute much anyway, and our depth chart would keep less pressure on him to contribute right away.  It's a bold style move - completely avoiding the need piece and just looking at finding talent. 

18 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

So Diggs, who is the number 1 deep threat in the NFL and the number 1 contested catch WR in the NFL is not an explosive player?  Brown who is a burner himself isnt explosive?  Come on, thats a bit short sighted statement wouldn't you say.  I mean we have 2 explosive WR's right now and a TE that if he can reign the drops in can really stretch the middle of the field too.  And Cole may not be straight line explosive on go routes, but he as about as fast as you can get as fast cut route runner and explodes off the line.  

 

I think we have quite a bit more fire power than people think.  Not to mention, Devin despite being a part time RB last year was 3rd in YPC and had tied for 9th in runs over 20 yards with 7 (leader had 11).  

 

Sorry I still don't buy the Devin is not explosive argument some people insist on making over a 40 time.  He is very explosive, and in the most important ways for a RB.  Shifty, acceleration, cutting, and exploding through the holes.  

 

Yeah - he wont get the big splash plays, but his ability to turn 2-4 yards into 10-20 yards is legit.  

[Alphadawg7]

18 minutes ago, dneveu said:

Yeah - he wont get the big splash plays, but his ability to turn 2-4 yards into 10-20 yards is legit.  

 

I would argue 10-20 yard plays are big splash plays personally.  Give me that guy all day long who does that dozens of times a year versus the guy who goes over 40 a couple times a year.

Edited March 30, 2020 by Alphadawg7

[BigBuff423]

I'm not as much a fan of the Dobbins pick for the Bills, mainly because I don't see a drastic difference between Motor and Dobbins and what the Bills truly need to complement Motor is speed. Now, if the Bills were to take Edge in 2nd and wait until the 3rd (maybe 4th), I could see McFarland as a really good second piece to Motor who had one of the faster 40 times at the Combine and it shows on video. Additionally, he does a nice job with shaking single arms tackles, shooting the hole with some authority, and a nice plant-and-go running style that would provide some balance. I didn't see a ton of receiving reps from him, but what I did see, showed signs of promise with practice and good coaching. 

 

I love Taylor the way most everyone does, but I think he goes in the 1st top 2nd and McFarland is a really nice option for the Bills, IMHO.

[OldTimer1960]

14 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

I'm not as much a fan of the Dobbins pick for the Bills, mainly because I don't see a drastic difference between Motor and Dobbins and what the Bills truly need to complement Motor is speed. Now, if the Bills were to take Edge in 2nd and wait until the 3rd (maybe 4th), I could see McFarland as a really good second piece to Motor who had one of the faster 40 times at the Combine and it shows on video. Additionally, he does a nice job with shaking single arms tackles, shooting the hole with some authority, and a nice plant-and-go running style that would provide some balance. I didn't see a ton of receiving reps from him, but what I did see, showed signs of promise with practice and good coaching. 

 

I love Taylor the way most everyone does, but I think he goes in the 1st top 2nd and McFarland is a really nice option for the Bills, IMHO.

No doubt that McFarland is fast, but is is quite small - not just short. He weighs a respectable 208, but I didn't see any power or ability to break any tackles (avoiding a tackle is different, but he is not as "shifty" as Singletary, IMHO).

 

I think it would be a mistake to take McFarland before round 4, but that is only my opinion.

 

I'm not in the camp that thinks we need a big powerful, less-quick guy like Dillon or Moss, but I think pairing Singletary with 

44 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Its a deep WR draft, and the talent available in round 2 of this draft could be comparable to round 1 of other years.  Rookie WR's tend not to contribute much anyway, and our depth chart would keep less pressure on him to contribute right away.  It's a bold style move - completely avoiding the need piece and just looking at finding talent. 

 

If there is a WR that is TRULY standing out on their board so far that it is a no-brainer, then I could understand that.  I understand that it is a deep class and there might be someone that you just can't say no to sitting there.  In my opinion, I don't think Shenault or Higgins would be so highly rated that they would feel that way, but maybe they like them or Reagor, Mims or Hamler enough to pull the trigger if they are there.

[ChattanoogaBills]

I would trade down before trading up for a RB. I wouldn't touch any RB before the 3rd round this year.

Give me Dillon, Akers, A. Gibson or Perine in that order please.

Also im taking into account Christian Wade was working to improve all season and McBeane may be pretty confident in him being ready for that role.

I dont think Yeldon will be on this team next year. Yeldon is terrible in pass protection/blitz pick up.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, OldTimer1960 said:

No doubt that McFarland is fast, but is is quite small - not just short. He weighs a respectable 208, but I didn't see any power or ability to break any tackles (avoiding a tackle is different, but he is not as "shifty" as Singletary, IMHO).

 

I think it would be a mistake to take McFarland before round 4, but that is only my opinion.

 

I'm not in the camp that thinks we need a big powerful, less-quick guy like Dillon or Moss, but I think pairing Singletary with 

If there is a WR that is TRULY standing out on their board so far that it is a no-brainer, then I could understand that.  I understand that it is a deep class and there might be someone that you just can't say no to sitting there.  In my opinion, I don't think Shenault or Higgins would be so highly rated that they would feel that way, but maybe they like them or Reagor, Mims or Hamler enough to pull the trigger if they are there.

 

If you think that in year 2 or 3 they an be a featured player in the offense and become a weapon, i'm all for it.

[Kirby Jackson]

On 3/29/2020 at 8:24 PM, Alphadawg7 said:

 

What is everyones fascination with this play that happens maybe a few times a season for even the best ones at it.  People act like these fabled 60 yard TD runs happen all the time.  Its foolish to focus on that versus the guy who is the better runner and will get you a first down more consistently and a TD when in the Redzone.  You dont win games and go to the Super Bowl because a RB had 4 runs on the whole season of 60 yards.  You win games and go to the Super Bowl because you keep the ball and keep moving towards more points.  Now if that RB happens to be good a both, than great that is probably going to be a special RB.  

 

That being said, I would love Dobbins...but I just think people are too focused on straight line running which doesn't happen that often over someone breaking tackles or breaking Ankles.  We just need another good RB to share with Devin, doesn't have to be a certain "type" for them to pair well together.

For instance, I would love AJ Dillon whose a load to bring down and fast and can catch.  But I am also not married to it only being Dillon of course, and like I said, I love Dobbins too.  

I am a “big play advocate.” If the Bills made 4 more a year (as an example) that’s an extra 28 points on the season. Those 4 big plays would take the Bills from 23rd in scoring to 18th. That’s one explosive play every 4 games. I think Diggs instantly contributes to this. There will be a slant or 2 that he catches at own 40 and explodes through the secondary to go the distance. We have been lacking that for sure. 
 

5 of the Bills 6 losses last year were by a TD or less. If 1/2 of those big plays were made in those 6 games we could have been 12-4 instead of 10-6. Those 4 big plays are probably worth an additional win to 2 wins a year. That could be the difference in playoffs or not, division or not, bye or not, etc...

[Thurman#1]

On 3/24/2020 at 11:24 AM, JaCrispy said:

Love the player but I really hope we don’t trade up...plenty of talent...we just need to be patient...

 

 

 

This.

 

This is a terrific year for RBs. And that's not the kind of year in which you trade up. It's be like the trade-up that got us Sammy Watkins in a WR-rich year, though it wouldn't cost as much. But we don't have a lot of picks this year, especially with the first rounder gone. My guess is we don't see a trade-up in the 2nd, anyway, and none at all unless it's a fairly small move that can be made giving up only a 6th.

 

 

18 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Simply put we need more explosive players on offense. Honestly I don't think we have any. Someone that put fear in the opponent when they have the ball.

 

 

 

I'd argue Singletary, Diggs and John Brown all put fear in opponents. Brown was open but overthrown on 5 or 6 long bombs last year. We may tend to forget those plays, but you can bet offensive coordinators don't.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Thurman#1

[ALF]

I would rather  take a RB latter in the draft someone bigger who can also block .

 

 A.J. Dillon, RB/FB, Boston College
Height: 6-0. Weight: 247. Arm: 31.63. Hand: 9.63.
40 Time: 4.53.
Projected Round (2020): 3-5.

 

3/7/20: Dillon really helped himself at the combine with an excellent 40-yard dash time for a back as large as him. Team sources said Dillon really helped himself in Indianapolis. Dillon averaged 5.3 yards per carry in 2019 for 1,685 yards with 14 touchdowns. He also made 13 catches for 195 yards and a touchdown. Dillon is a potential rotational power back for the NFL

 

https://walterfootball.com/draft2020RB.php

Edited March 31, 2020 by ALF

[Buffalo_Stampede]

47 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

This.

 

This is a terrific year for RBs. And that's not the kind of year in which you trade up. It's be like the trade-up that got us Sammy Watkins in a WR-rich year, though it wouldn't cost as much. But we don't have a lot of picks this year, especially with the first rounder gone. My guess is we don't see a trade-up in the 2nd, anyway, and none at all unless it's a fairly small move that can be made giving up only a 6th.

 

 

 

 

 

I'd argue Singletary, Diggs and John Brown all put fear in opponents. Brown was open but overthrown on 5 or 6 long bombs last year. We may tend to forget those plays, but you can bet offensive coordinators don't.

Ball in hands. Singletary has it.

[ComradeKayAdams]

On 3/24/2020 at 7:32 AM, Dont Stop Billeiving said:

Dobbins or Taylor in the 2nd would be reasonably good value and at an area of need. I think we should ideally target CB and RB in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. 

 

Now that RB is one of our biggest remaining needs, it's too bad that Etienne Jr. wound up going back to Clemson. He would have been another possible option on Day 2. 

 

Hmmm.... I would maybe substitute CB with an LDE Lawson replacement here. Now normally I'm a BPA kind of gal, and I think Beane is a BPA kind of guy, but I - like you - think he should prioritize an RB Gore upgrade this year. Not too many draft picks are going to make this season's roster, so I would use a couple of these picks to trade up a bit to secure players whom Beane likes. Singletary is the McCoy-like lightning; the Bills still need some Lynch-like thunder.

[BigBuff423]

16 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

No doubt that McFarland is fast, but is is quite small - not just short. He weighs a respectable 208, but I didn't see any power or ability to break any tackles (avoiding a tackle is different, but he is not as "shifty" as Singletary, IMHO).

 

I think it would be a mistake to take McFarland before round 4, but that is only my opinion.

 

 

 

McFarland might be short, but at 208 he is solid and has a low center of gravity and as for breaking tackles, I routinely saw guys get an arm on his leg or grab his foot and be able to keep his balance and fight through it to keep running and in some cases, make big gains after the fact. He's not Brandon Jacobs or Marshawn Lynch obviously, but he's also young and has room to put some more strength in his frame, not bulk mind you. When you watch him run, he runs with this single cut, authority despite his stature and shows good burst which is what Motor is missing, IMO.

 

All that said, while I don't think he'd be there at #54, if Taylor were to be there, it's a no-brainer b/c IMHO, he's the best all around back coming out. All due respect to Swift -  which almost the exact same size as McFarland (same height, but 4 lbs heavier but also very slightly slower).

 

In later rounds, Eno Benjamin is a VIOLENT runner - reminds me of a smaller Marshawn Lynch. This Draft is loaded at RB, and I can understand why Beane feels very comfortable going into the Draft looking for a RB, b/c no matter where in the Draft they decide to take one - there will be a flat-out, player available. Love this Draft for RB / WR. 

[BobbyC81]

On 3/23/2020 at 8:08 PM, Formerly Allan in MD said:

The thought of Dobbins in the second makes me smile.

 

Aaah, he’s another smurf (5-9). They need a big back to complement Singletary.

[maryland-bills-fan]

In another, now dormant thread, RockpileSurvivor suggested the video found at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/locked-on-bills-daily-podcast-on-the-buffalo-bills/id1145479962   as a good listen on the top running backs.  Its a bit long, I listened and took notes and think it is valuable for our discussion. Summary:

 

Dobbins    5-9     209 pounds    no combine

He can catch the ball well and has a complete skill set.  Is efficient and has good vision. Takes one cut and is going upfield.  Explosive long ball skills this year, last year had a running QB. Should be a  1A running back in the NFL.  Good reaction to different defensive coverages and makes the right decisions almost by magic. “almost precognition”.  Not real evasive in the open field.

Swift   5-8       212 pounds 4.48

Good explosion. Back to back 1000yard seasons.  Catches the ball well. 513 carries in college (low milage). Had nagging injuries.  Good football character was interviewed by Bills in combine.  Good process guy. Writers though him a 1^st round pick.  Good pass catcher and can step right in in blocking schemes- pro ready there.    Minor issue- not great 1:1 In open field.  IS patient in setting up blockers, but had good blockers in college & knows how to use them.

Taylor   5-10     226 pounds   2.39

Lead Big 10 for 3 seasons.  Caught 16 passes last year. Checks every box: speed, size, explosiveness.  Elite production.  Could be a top 5 pick 10 years ago.  Good blocker, has burst around the corner, can make something out of nothing, good “processs” guy. Offers something different from Singletary.    Minor concern: hands drops and fumbles

Edwards-Heilier          5-7  207 pounds  4.60

Similar to Singletary. Good vision, wide base, good shiftiness. Less break-away. Best pass route runner. A good pick at #54, will not get to #84.

Aken                    5-10  217pounds    4.47

Very talented, 30 catches.  Good for long running plays. Poster child for better pro than college player.  Played with a bad o-line, no good QB and funky run scheme.  Questions about experience in playing with good offensive line- had to improvise too much, right hole hard to identify because of that. Pass blocking needs coaching up. 

====================================================================Later rounds  day 3

Zack Moss   slower and bigger.     Vision and contact balance.  “Will take 2 yard gain to 7 yards but not 7 yard gain to 30 yards”.  Not a long ball guy

James Robinson           Illinois State    compact powerful runner,  little nuances not a pass catcher

[maryland-bills-fan]

https://walterfootball.com/scoutingreports.php

DOBBINS

“…There is no doubt Dobbins has the ability to be a NFL running back with a skill set to be in contention as a three-down starter early in his pro career. The first trait that generates a lot of talk about Dobbins is his acceleration, as he has a quick first step to hit the hole and a second gear to burst to the second level of the defense. In the open field, Dobbins can rip off yards in chunks and is a threat to turn ordinary carries into big gains.

Aside from his quickness, Dobbins is a natural runner with instincts. He has excellent vision and anticipation to follow his line before bursting downhill after quickly anticipating where a hole is about to open. On top of his feel for running with the ball, Dobbins has a compact build that provides him with some power to run through tackles and pick up yards after contact. He has plus balance to maintain his feet after getting hit by defenders, and he uses his stature to run through would-be tacklers. Dobbins has some moves, quick feet, and elusiveness in the open field. His strength and build make him a quality short-yardage runner as well.

One trait that really will get evaluators excited is Dobbins' ability as a receiver. He is very dangerous at running wheel routes, as he is fluid in space and has shown tremendous hands to make some difficult catches downfield. He makes some pretty hands catches with good technique not to use his body. Dobbins is a dangerous route-runner out of the backfield who provides mismatches in coverage against front-seven defenders. For the passing-driven NFL, Dobbins is an excellent fit to contribute to an aerial offense, and that leads to him having three-down-starter potential.”

 

======================================================

SWIFT

The first trait that jumps out about Swift is his speed. He is a fast back with a quick first-step and a burst to the second level. He can pull away from defenders, making him a threat to take any carry or reception down the field for a huge gain. Swift does not have the speed of Chris Johnson, but he is a fast back who provides a speed mismatch out of the backfield. In the NFL, Swift will be a threat to break off long runs due to his rare quickness for a starting back.

On top of being fast, Swift is a natural runner. He has excellent vision, body lean, and patience, plus runs behind his pads. Swift sets up blocks and uses his speed to dart through holes before they close. Defenders really struggle to get a hold of Swift, who has great feet that make him very elusive. He is sudden with his ability to cut and change direction as well. Swift has a devastating jab step with cuts back to the inside, and he routinely uses that skill to make tacklers grab air. His abrupt juke even works on defensive backs. With his change-of-direction skills and quick feet, Swift can create big runs on his own, even when blocking assignments are missed. Swift is a devastating runner who can overwhelm defenses.

While Swift is not the biggest of backs, he does have strength to his build and is able to break tackles while picking up yards after contact. He is not overpowering by NFL standards, but he will be able to shed tacklers to pick up additional yards. Swift also finishes runs well, delivering some blows to defenders while falling forward.

Swift is well suited for the passing-driven NFL due to his talent as a receiving back. He runs good routes out of the backfield and has soft hands. All college backs need to be coached up and groomed for blitz protection in the pros, and Swift will have that learning curve as well. However, he has the potential to be a contributing blitz protector in the NFL.

====================================

There is no doubt Taylor has the ability to make an impact as a running back in the NFL given his skill set to be a three-down starter. He possesses an excellent combination of size and speed that lets him run over tacklers or by them. Taylor has a strong build and is very difficult to get down, as he will power through tackles and bounce off defenders to continue to gain yards. He has superb contact balance and runs behind his pads with good knee bend. In short-yardage situations, Taylor is an asset who can create on his own with his power to push the pile. He keeps his legs going after contact with a powerful lower body that is tough to stop. An added element to his power is a wicked stiff-arm that makes it tough for defenders to grab him.

Taylor can rip off yards in chunks in the open field, making him a threat to turn ordinary carries into big gains with his speed to get downfield. Taylor has a quick first-step and a second gear that allows him to run away from defenders. Taylor isn't Chris Johnson fast, but he has good speed for the position. With his cutting ability and quick feet, Taylor has some elusiveness in the open field as well.

Aside from his size and speed, Taylor is a natural runner with very good instincts. He displays excellent vision, patience and anticipation to follow his offensive line before bursting downhill. When holes aren't open, Taylor is patient to let his line create a crease and uses his vision very well to make something out of nothing. Taylor anticipates where a hole is about to open, and that lets him get to the second level consistently.

In the passing game, Taylor has pretty good hands for a power back. He can makes some difficult catches and is dangerous in space. In time, he should be an asset in pass protection, but like all college backs, he will need coaching and development for pass blocking in the NFL.

Edwards-Helaire    5-7 209 pound 4.50 

Edwards-Helaire was a dangerous runner and receiver for the Tigers in 2019, doing a lot of dirty work for their point machine offense. The junior averaged 6.6 yards per carry in 2019 for 1,414 yards with 16 touchdowns. He also had 55 receptions for 453 yards and a score. Edwards-Helaire is a tough runner with quickness, cutting ability, vision, and natural body lean. His natural receiving skills make him a potential three-down starter.  2-3 round

Moss            5-9  210   Some sources believe Moss is a second- or third-round pick as they feel he is a tough runner with a good build. Others who are really high on him think he could have late first-round talent. H

====================================================

[maryland-bills-fan]

Part of a post in thread "for those who want a RB in the first few rounds": looking at RB in 10 mock drafts

......

Quote   Swift             end of 1st Taylor          early 2nd Dobbins       2nd half of 2nd round EH                top of 3rd round Akers          bottom of 3rd round Moss          middle of 3rd round   Basically our options for moving up are as follows.  Of course you have to find a partner to dance.   #54               R2 pick and stay pat......................  Could get Dobbins. ..............Probably get EH or Akers #45              R2, R4, R5 picks.  Move up to middle 2nd quarter of 2nd round. .........Dobbins and a shot at Taylor #38              R2, R3 picks.  Move up to  first quarter of 2nd round .......Dobbins for sure, ,,Taylor possible,   shot at Swift? #33              R2, R3, R4 picks.  Move up to the top of the 2nd round  ......good  shot at Taylor,..... some chance at Swift   #31              R2, R3, next years R2   Bottom of first round.

[RocCityRoller]

Here's another:

 

54: R2P22

RB J.K. DOBBINS

OHIO STATE

86: R3P22

EDGE CURTIS WEAVER

BOISE STATE

128: R4P22

G DAMIEN LEWIS

LSU

167: R5P21

LB CAM BROWN

PENN STATE

188: R6P9

WR/RB ANTONIO GIBSON

MEMPHIS

207: R6P28

OT YASIR DURANT

MISSOURI

239: R7P25

EDGE BRYCE STERK

MONTANA STATE

[Thurman#1]

The main option for moving up for an RB in the second is the one you left out:  DON'T.

 

Again, this is a year with terrific RB depth. Starters will likely be drafted as late as the 4th and 5th this year. RB is the second-best position this year by most reckonings, after WR.

 

That's the kind of year you wait and get your platoon guy later. A lot of really backs there ... Eno Benjamin, Perine, Joshua Kelley, McFarland, Darrynton Evans, or my favorite, the 6'0" 247 pound A.J. Dillon, who ran a 4.53 40 and pancaked people all year while being outrageously productive.

 

 

 

And yeah, highlight reels all look good but this guy's traits are outrageous and he showed himself every bit as productive as those traits would indicate. When you can get a guy like this in the 4th or 5th, why would you spend a high pick on a platoon guy? You wouldn't.

[maryland-bills-fan]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

The main option for moving up for an RB in the second is the one you left out:  DON'T.

 

Again, this is a year with terrific RB depth. Starters will likely be drafted as late as the 4th and 5th this year. RB is the second-best position this year by most reckonings, after WR.

 

That's the kind of year you wait and get your platoon guy later. A lot of really backs there ... Eno Benjamin, Perine, Joshua Kelley, McFarland, Darrynton Evans, or my favorite, the 6'0" 247 pound A.J. Dillon, who ran a 4.53 40 and pancaked people all year while being outrageously productive.

 

 

 

And yeah, highlight reels all look good but this guy's traits are outrageous and he showed himself every bit as productive as those traits would indicate. When you can get a guy like this in the 4th or 5th, why would you spend a high pick on a platoon guy? You wouldn't.

Heh?

 

"Basically our options for moving up are as follows.  Of course you have to find a partner to dance.

 

#54               R2 pick and stay pat......................  Could get Dobbins. ..............Probably get EH or Akers   "

 

Well, we have to agree to disagree.    JAG who can play RB or a superior player.    A cost effective chevee or a corvette?   I like what Beane has been doing. He has NOT been afraid to spend lower draft picks to move up and get a superior player.   Superior players mean that you win more individual battles on the field and 5-6 of them means a win rather than a close loss.

Edited April 1, 2020 by maryland-bills-fan