Offensive Line Status Quo

[HappyDays]

I'm always worried about the offensive line. It's the hardest position group in football to build a consistently good unit.

 

The one thing we have going for us is continuity. Every starter and depth player and coach is back. I'm not sure how many teams can say that. Add a tackle in the draft and I'll be satisfied.

 

Diggs plus a real RB2 from the draft will make the offensive line look better too. More talent means Allen doesn't have to hold the ball as long, and Gore won't hold us back anymore.

[Chandler#81]

There are a couple other threads currently open on this topic on the front page. Would you prefer I merge this with one of them or lock it?

[BuffaloBills1998]

O line was up and down last year, RT is a must need. 

[formerlyofCtown]

19 hours ago, Bobby Hooks said:

Can’t upgrade every position. Biggest thing you can do for an oline is give them time to gel and grow together as a unit. Would we love to add an all-pro RT? Of course, but all teams have weaknesses and if ours is this oline with one more year of experience, I’d say we’re doing pretty darn well. 

We just drafted an upgrade last year.  Give the kid some time to develope.

[artmalibu]

I think O-line is the hardest position for a rookie to play with exception of QB.  Ford should improve a good bit.  They should improve as a group in year 2. Tough year with 4 new starters and the center was out most of the preseason as I recall.  

 

It would be nice to know if they tried to improve the talent through FA tho.   

[Bobby Hooks]

59 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

We just drafted an upgrade last year.  Give the kid some time to develope.

Did you even read the post? I feel like the context may have been lost on you. 

Edited March 21, 2020 by Bobby Hooks

[bmur66]

Feliciano rated as a backup? Yea. I don’t think  those ratings are very good. Dude was a beast. Stepped in at center when needed and did well there also

Edited March 21, 2020 by bmur66

[longtimebillsfan]

9 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

I think if Ford can't beat out Nsekhe in TC, then it seems like he should be moved to guard to see if he works there. 

 

 

If they get a better RT than Ford, then it's not "the same result".    A lot of evaluators thought Ford would be a better pro guard than tackle, so a kid with physical skills better suited to playing pro OT might very well be worth grabbing.

 

 

That's simply untrue when discussing OTs taken in the first or second rounds.  Prospects taken that high generally need to get stronger and to hone their skills but most are perfectly capable of playing respectably as rookies.  Cordy Glenn was a competent LT as a rookie.  So was Dion Dawkins.  Dawkins struggled in his sophomore season but rebounded last season when the Bills had NFL caliber OLers beside him rather just bodies wearing OL numbers as in 2018.

 

 

If the Bills acquired a "stud left tackle" in the draft -- highly unlikely in the bottom third of the second round since the best ones go in the first round -- I think Dawkins moving to LG might be better.  It's hard for OLers to switch sides because everything is reversed, and not every OT can play well that way.  Also, LTs tend to be quicker and lighter than RTs while RTs tend to be more powerful. 

 

 

Good point

[Dkollidas]

I think most people are down on Ford and believe he should be moved to guard. 
 

I believe we’ll see a jump in his development in year 2. Question is if that jump will be big enough for people to start considering him a viable tackle. I remember a lot of people mad we traded Glenn because they wanted us to move Dawkins to guard and let Glenn be the LT. I believe there’s a big jump from NCAA to NFL for linemen in the past 5-10yrs or so, so that makes judging guys based on rookie performance very difficult. They need time to develop. 

[CaptnCoke11]

On 3/20/2020 at 6:30 PM, LabattBlue said:

Was our OL so good last season that the same 5 are coming back again?

 

Pass blocking often looked like a jail break. 

Who should we of spent 15 million a year on?

[Buddo]

6 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I doubt it too... In my opinion it would be a wise move. What if Brown or Diggs gets hurt and are out for an extended period? Your back to having a lackluster WR group and the same offensive struggles. 

 

You mentioned Foster and Duke..... why? 

 

Tbh, I expect the thinking is that they can pick up additional WR help, just about anywhere in this draft. Beane has already talked about how deep it is at the WR position.

 

I wouldn't rule out a WR at our 2nd round pick, but the way they are going, it's going to have to be very good value above other positions on their board. I think the same will apply to anyone we take with that 2nd rounder tbh - it's going to have to be clearly BPA - so just about any position (probably excluding QB) is in play.

 

I think taking a WR with our 2nd, is probably the least likely scenario. Mainly because there are so many of them, and so many who will have draftable grades. Other positions will have a much greater drop off than WR, so they will be much more likely to pick those, as there isn't going to be that much difference between a 2nd round WR, and possibly even a 4th round one

[WideRightRevenge]

This thread prompted me to look around the internet .. as if its on the internet it must be true and found this link from footballoutsiders.  I was a fan of many of our moves last year (especially Morse and Mongo -- who I really appreciate his finishing of blocks) and do believe it takes time for all the new players to gel.  That said, I didn't realize below as it relates to our running game, especially with Shady and his dancing behind the line gone in 2019.

 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/offensive-line/2019

 

We ranked 28th in the run stuffing category and 25th in the "Power Category" rating on running ratings.  On pass protection, some of the 40 sacks also shown here .. I place on Josh not getting rid of the ball.

 

Stuffed: Percentage of runs where the running back is tackled at or behind the line of scrimmage. Since being stuffed is bad, teams are ranked from stuffed least often (#1) to most often (#32).

 

Power Success: Percentage of runs on third or fourth down, two yards or less to go, that achieved a first down or touchdown. Also includes runs on first-and-goal or second-and-goal from the two-yard line or closer. This is the only statistic on this page that includes quarterbacks.

 

Look forward to looking better in these categories in 2020.

[Hebert19]

On 3/20/2020 at 7:57 PM, ScottLaw said:

Ford.. honestly they are taking a risk with him at RT. Constantly beat around the edge and a lot of mental mistakes. Not a fan.

No one says that's the plan.  RT could be a 2nd 3rd or 4th round pick or Ty could start...hes also solid. 

[Cal]

On 3/20/2020 at 7:30 PM, LabattBlue said:

Was our OL so good last season that the same 5 are coming back again?

 

Pass blocking often looked like a jail break. 

 

I agree...but Allen will the blame unfortunately 

[Doc]

12 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I doubt it too... In my opinion it would be a wise move. What if Brown or Diggs gets hurt and are out for an extended period? Your back to having a lackluster WR group and the same offensive struggles. 

 

You mentioned Foster and Duke..... why? 

 

If one of them gets hurt, I'm not counting on a 2nd-round rookie WR who will probably get minimal off-season and pre-season work to save the real season.  What you're arguing for is adding another veteran WR.

 

As for Foster and Duke, I mentioned them because they still have potential.  I'm not ready to throw away what I saw of Foster in the 2nd half of 2018 and Duke has the size we're looking for.

[BillsfanAZ]

Does anything think that if Ford dropped some weight and became a little more nimble that he can be a good RT? I always thought he was a little big at the base to be a Tackle. 

[Shaw66]

On 3/21/2020 at 12:16 PM, matter2003 said:

Per an analytic study done by Pro Football Outsiders over a lengthy period of time, the biggest correlation between good OLine play and bad OLine play was the length of time/number of games a line played together. 

Is there a link to that study?   I didn't find it on the Outsiders.  

 

As to the comment about Ford having a better body for guard than tackle, I know nothing about those body mechanics, etc.   However, I think it's clear that McBeane's approach is guys who can play multiple positions.   That is, athleticism is the key, not body type.   In the last few years I'd begun to notice that all of Belichick's offensive linemen were built more or less the same.   Solid, tough, athletic, quick (for their size).  

 

So Ford's future is more likely to be told but which position he shows he can play best at.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

So the respective teams didn't count on DK Metcalf, AJ Brown, or Deebo Samuel to help them substantially last season? 

 

I'll gladly throw away Foster right now. 

 

I doubt any of those teams went into the season counting on those guys.  Sure they panned-out but that's neither here nor there. 

 

Again I wouldn't draft a guy in the 2nd out of fear one of my top-3 is going to get hurt, when there are needs elsewhere, and what you're really advocating for is a veteran WR.

 

You would be silly to throw Foster away.  Especially if you think the Bills desperately need to draft a WR in the 2nd.

[Doc]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

I gave you several reasons why I’d draft a WR early in a earlier post. 
 

Wait, so those teams weren’t counting on those 2nd/3rd round picks last season? How? 

 

Your reason was in case one of the top-3 got injured.   You could use that with almost any positional grouping on the team.  In a draft as deep as this is supposed to be, no need to take one in the 2nd.

 

I don't know.  Were the respective teams counting on Hardman, Acega-Whiteside, Campbell or Isabella?

[Doc]

31 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I think just about all teams count on their 2nd round picks to contribute to the team..... and no that was my only reason. Go read the post again. I gave several reasons. 

 

And I gave you several reasons why not, notably the depth of the WR class, lost off- and maybe pre-season making it harder for them to acclimate and the Bills' unreliability in drafting WRs.