Chandler#81 Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Horseheads Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 Ya not a bright shining moment. Of course if they kept him they would have had no weapons for him to throw to like Oakland did. (sound familar) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted March 15, 2020 Author Share Posted March 15, 2020 5 minutes ago, Mike in Horseheads said: Ya not a bright shining moment. Of course if they kept him they would have had no weapons for him to throw to like Oakland did. (sound familar) Bass was still very good & we still had Duby & Crockett. We lost Gogolak as well, when the Giants offered him unheard of (for the time) $$ to jump Leagues. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Horseheads Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Chandler#81 said: Bass was very good & we still had Duby. We lost Gogolak as well, when the Giants offered him unheard of (for the time) $$ to jump Leagues. I was born in 60 so when that happened I had less a clue then I have now. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 What I have heard over the years is that Wilson traded Lamonica because he had an affair with another player's wife. I don't how true that was but it seems consistent with how Wilson ran the team. I think that Lamonica would have failed in Buffalo. The loss to the Chiefs in the AFC Championship (for the berth in Super Bowl I) was the Bills' last hurrah and ushered in 2 decades of misery for Bills fans which were only broken by Lou Saban's short lived return as coach (1972-the first 5 games of 1976) and the Chuck Knox regime (1978-1982) until Bill Polian took charge of the Bills in 1986. Between 1967 and 1985, the Bills were mostly uncompetitive with the rest of the NFL. Wilson didn't like paying top money for quality players, so the Bills drafted primarily based either position (lots of DBs in the first round) or whether a draftee would accept the Bills' low ball salary offers in the first round. In the 20 years between 1967 and 1986, the Bills had the #1 pick in the entire draft 4 times (OJ Simpson (1968), Walt Putulski (1972), Tom Cousineau (1979), and Bruce Smith (1985)), 3 top 5 picks, and 2 top ten picks. Simpson and Smith both held out a long time before finally signing with the Bills. Cousineau chose to play in the CFL rather than for the Bills. Jim Kelly (the only QB taken in the first round during this period) chose the WFL over the Bills. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted March 15, 2020 Author Share Posted March 15, 2020 7 minutes ago, SoTier said: What I have heard over the years is that Wilson traded Lamonica because he had an affair with another player's wife. I don't how true that was but it seems consistent with how Wilson ran the team. I think that Lamonica would have failed in Buffalo. The loss to the Chiefs in the AFC Championship (for the berth in Super Bowl I) was the Bills' last hurrah and ushered in 2 decades of misery for Bills fans which were only broken by Lou Saban's short lived return as coach (1972-the first 5 games of 1976) and the Chuck Knox regime (1978-1982) until Bill Polian took charge of the Bills in 1986. Between 1967 and 1985, the Bills were mostly uncompetitive with the rest of the NFL. Wilson didn't like paying top money for quality players, so the Bills drafted primarily based either position (lots of DBs in the first round) or whether a draftee would accept the Bills' low ball salary offers in the first round. In the 20 years between 1967 and 1986, the Bills had the #1 pick in the entire draft 4 times (OJ Simpson (1968), Walt Putulski (1972), Tom Cousineau (1979), and Bruce Smith (1985)), 3 top 5 picks, and 2 top ten picks. Simpson and Smith both held out a long time before finally signing with the Bills. Cousineau chose to play in the CFL rather than for the Bills. Jim Kelly (the only QB taken in the first round during this period) chose the WFL over the Bills. The rumor was Jack Kemp’s wife. It was a very hot topic at the time though, obviously, never confirmed. Not the only time taboo dalliances were suggested as a reason a player was traded. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 One of those “looked good on paper” moments. It truly did. In hindsight, adding John Pitts was the best part of the day. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwight in philly Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 2 hours ago, Chandler#81 said: 2 hours ago, Chandler#81 said: Totally agree , up until the Sabres trade of Ryan O'Reilly , this ranks as the worst trade in Buffalo sports history by far.. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 Wasn't there another angle as well? Ralph has a financial stake in the Raiders since he propped up Al Davis. Something that would not be allowed now. He wanted to make sure his investment didn't tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 (edited) Ralph had an affair?! That old hound dog! No wonder he took a shine to Brandon. Edited March 15, 2020 by Ridgewaycynic2013 I sometimes wish my autotext would catch a virus...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwater10 Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 1 hour ago, SoTier said: What I have heard over the years is that Wilson traded Lamonica because he had an affair with another player's wife. I don't how true that was but it seems consistent with how Wilson ran the team. I think that Lamonica would have failed in Buffalo. The loss to the Chiefs in the AFC Championship (for the berth in Super Bowl I) was the Bills' last hurrah and ushered in 2 decades of misery for Bills fans which were only broken by Lou Saban's short lived return as coach (1972-the first 5 games of 1976) and the Chuck Knox regime (1978-1982) until Bill Polian took charge of the Bills in 1986. Between 1967 and 1985, the Bills were mostly uncompetitive with the rest of the NFL. Wilson didn't like paying top money for quality players, so the Bills drafted primarily based either position (lots of DBs in the first round) or whether a draftee would accept the Bills' low ball salary offers in the first round. In the 20 years between 1967 and 1986, the Bills had the #1 pick in the entire draft 4 times (OJ Simpson (1968), Walt Putulski (1972), Tom Cousineau (1979), and Bruce Smith (1985)), 3 top 5 picks, and 2 top ten picks. Simpson and Smith both held out a long time before finally signing with the Bills. Cousineau chose to play in the CFL rather than for the Bills. Jim Kelly (the only QB taken in the first round during this period) chose the WFL over the Bills. Bruce Smith was not a hold out as a draft choice. If memory serves, he signed with Buffalo prior to the draft. The choice was a fan debate between Bruce and Flutie. Bills chose Bruce because they could get him to sign before they invested the #1 overall pick on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 20 minutes ago, cwater10 said: Bruce Smith was not a hold out as a draft choice. If memory serves, he signed with Buffalo prior to the draft. The choice was a fan debate between Bruce and Flutie. Bills chose Bruce because they could get him to sign before they invested the #1 overall pick on him. No college player can sign with any NFL team until after the NFL draft. Bruce Smith was the #1 over all pick in 1985, which the Bills owned because of their crappy record the previous season. Flutie was taken in the 11th round (#285) of the LA Rams. I think that Smith rejected the WFL as an option, so the Bills drafted him, but he couldn't have been signed before the draft. First round draft picks holding out into some time into TC was very common before the rookie salary cap went into effect about 2010 or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florida Bills Fanatic Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 1 hour ago, SoTier said: What I have heard over the years is that Wilson traded Lamonica because he had an affair with another player's wife. I don't how true that was but it seems consistent with how Wilson ran the team. I think that Lamonica would have failed in Buffalo. The loss to the Chiefs in the AFC Championship (for the berth in Super Bowl I) was the Bills' last hurrah and ushered in 2 decades of misery for Bills fans which were only broken by Lou Saban's short lived return as coach (1972-the first 5 games of 1976) and the Chuck Knox regime (1978-1982) until Bill Polian took charge of the Bills in 1986. Between 1967 and 1985, the Bills were mostly uncompetitive with the rest of the NFL. Wilson didn't like paying top money for quality players, so the Bills drafted primarily based either position (lots of DBs in the first round) or whether a draftee would accept the Bills' low ball salary offers in the first round. In the 20 years between 1967 and 1986, the Bills had the #1 pick in the entire draft 4 times (OJ Simpson (1968), Walt Putulski (1972), Tom Cousineau (1979), and Bruce Smith (1985)), 3 top 5 picks, and 2 top ten picks. Simpson and Smith both held out a long time before finally signing with the Bills. Cousineau chose to play in the CFL rather than for the Bills. Jim Kelly (the only QB taken in the first round during this period) chose the WFL over the Bills. Knowing a person who worked for the team at the time, I was told that Lamonica had a medical issue that made longevity in the league something less than a sure thing. I don't know if that is true or not but it makes more sense than unloading your talented QB of the future because he shagged someones wife. There were multiple rumors about affairs and who knows if any of them were true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stranded in Boston Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 1 hour ago, SoTier said: In the 20 years between 1967 and 1986, the Bills had the #1 pick in the entire draft 4 times (OJ Simpson (1968), Walt Putulski (1972), Tom Cousineau (1979), and Bruce Smith (1985)), 3 top 5 picks, and 2 top ten picks. Simpson and Smith both held out a long time before finally signing with the Bills. Cousineau chose to play in the CFL rather than for the Bills. Jim Kelly (the only QB taken in the first round during this period) chose the WFL over the Bills. SoTier, your post made me realize that the Bills have actually done pretty well when they've had the top pick. To start, both OJ and Bruce are Hall of Famers -- and could be argued to be the best ever at their positions. The Cousineau business was frustrating, but trading him to Cleveland did net the #14 pick in the '83 draft, which produced Jim Kelly, another HOFer. So one could argue that 75% (3/4) of the Bills first-overall picks led to HOFers (I wonder what the overall % is for first picks among all drafts?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted March 15, 2020 Author Share Posted March 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, Stranded in Boston said: SoTier, your post made me realize that the Bills have actually done pretty well when they've had the top pick. To start, both OJ and Bruce are Hall of Famers -- and could be argued to be the best ever at their positions. The Cousineau business was frustrating, but trading him to Cleveland did net the #14 pick in the '83 draft, which produced Jim Kelly, another HOFer. So one could argue that 75% (3/4) of the Bills first-overall picks led to HOFers (I wonder what the overall % is for first picks among all drafts?) While it’s not 75%, it is pretty high. A perennial Pro Bowler is absolutely expected with the 1st overall and usually is the case. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcdermott Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 59 minutes ago, cwater10 said: Bruce Smith was not a hold out as a draft choice. If memory serves, he signed with Buffalo prior to the draft. The choice was a fan debate between Bruce and Flutie. Bills chose Bruce because they could get him to sign before they invested the #1 overall pick on him. The Bills chose Smith because he was clearly better then Childress. You are right, he didn’t hold out but they didn’t draft him because they could sign him. As for Flutie, he ended up going in the 6th or 7th round which goes to show you how smart fans are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stranded in Boston Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 11 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: While it’s not 75%, it is pretty high. A perennial Pro Bowler is absolutely expected with the 1st overall and usually is the case. Well, not to get all lawyerly on you, but the 75% figure is justified under my phrasing "led to" HOFers. ? But even 50% is good: I just reviewed a history of the draft, and only 12 first-overall picks have become HOFers since *1936*, more than 80 drafts (that's <15% HOF rate -- but check my math ?). So the Bills have been good/lucky with their first overalls. (And yes, if you're wondering, I am getting a little bored confined to home in Boston ...) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve O Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Stranded in Boston said: SoTier, your post made me realize that the Bills have actually done pretty well when they've had the top pick. To start, both OJ and Bruce are Hall of Famers -- and could be argued to be the best ever at their positions. The Cousineau business was frustrating, but trading him to Cleveland did net the #14 pick in the '83 draft, which produced Jim Kelly, another HOFer. So one could argue that 75% (3/4) of the Bills first-overall picks led to HOFers (I wonder what the overall % is for first picks among all drafts?) 28 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: While it’s not 75%, it is pretty high. A perennial Pro Bowler is absolutely expected with the 1st overall and usually is the case. Not really that high, so far only 14 since 1942, none since 1997. Who knew there was a website for this stuff? https://www.profootballhof.com/football-history/no-1-to-the-hall-of-fame/ Here are the first overalls since 1998. Of them I would say only Peyton Manning is a deffinite. Several are definite no's, book still out on many as well. 2019 Kyler Murray Cardinals 2018 Baker Mayfield Browns 2017 Myles Garrett Browns 2016 Jared Goff Rams 2015 Jameis Winston Buccaneers 2014 Jadeveon Clowney Texans 2013 Eric Fisher Chiefs 2012 Andrew Luck Colts 2011 Cam Newton Panthers 2010 Sam Bradford Rams 2009 Matthew Stafford Lions 2008 Jake Long Dolphins 2007 JaMarcus Russell Raiders 2006 Mario Williams Texans 2005 Alex Smith 49ers 2004 Eli Manning Chargers 2003 Carson Palmer Bengals 2002 David Carr Texans 2001 Michael Vick Falcons 2000 Courtney Brown Browns 1999 Tim Couch Browns 1998 Peyton Manning Colts Edited March 15, 2020 by Steve O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 2 hours ago, Chandler#81 said: The rumor was Jack Kemp’s wife. It was a very hot topic at the time though, obviously, never confirmed. Not the only time taboo dalliances were suggested as a reason a player was traded. ...interesting bud....NEVER knew that....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 54 minutes ago, SoTier said: No college player can sign with any NFL team until after the NFL draft. Bruce Smith was the #1 over all pick in 1985, which the Bills owned because of their crappy record the previous season. Flutie was taken in the 11th round (#285) of the LA Rams. I think that Smith rejected the WFL as an option, so the Bills drafted him, but he couldn't have been signed before the draft. First round draft picks holding out into some time into TC was very common before the rookie salary cap went into effect about 2010 or so. How old are you? The first pick of the draft was often known days, weeks, and sometime months in advance as the terms of the deal were agreed upon. In Smith's case he agreed months before the draft. And Smith was not a holdout his rookie year. https://www.buffalobills.com/news/feb-22-1985-bills-agree-to-rookie-deal-with-bruce-smith-14954041 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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