Watching since 1964 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 5+ years ago... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Williams_(offensive_lineman) Buffalo Bills[edit] On March 12, 2014, Williams signed a four-year, $13.5 million contract with the Buffalo Bills. The deal includes $5.5 million in guaranteed money.[13] His contract was terminated after a failed physical on July 28, 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 I think that some posters misunderstood the analyst's criteria. He's basing his picks on play/production vs cost. Poyer is best because he's played great at a bargain price. Lotulelei is the worse not because he's played so poorly but because he hasn't played well enough to justify his big $$$. In that context, I think he's probably spot on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 19 hours ago, ChevyVanMiller said: Agree or disagree? AFC East Buffalo Bills Best free-agent signing: S Jordan Poyer. You also could make an argument for fellow safety Micah Hyde, but the production Buffalo has gotten from Poyer far exceeds the bargain contract he signed in 2017 (four years, $12.5 million). Together with Hyde, Poyer has changed the identity of the Bills' defense. Worst free-agent signing: DT Star Lotulelei. Both general manager Brandon Beane and head coach Sean McDermott will insist Lotulelei is more valuable than he gets credit for -- and they're probably right. But they also essentially admitted their error in giving him a five-year, $50 million contract in 2018 by restructuring his deal this offseason. Lotulelei is a space-eater who makes life easier for his teammates, but that alone is probably not worth $10 million per year. -- Marcel Louis-Jacques Jordan Poyer? Does Rachel Bush work for ESPN now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior9 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) 36 minutes ago, SoTier said: I think that some posters misunderstood the analyst's criteria. He's basing his picks on play/production vs cost. Poyer is best because he's played great at a bargain price. Lotulelei is the worse not because he's played so poorly but because he hasn't played well enough to justify his big $$$. In that context, I think he's probably spot on. Explain this, please. We have a pro-bowl second year LB. We have Jordan Phillips that benefited from him to the point we aren't even going to resign him. We had a top 3 defense in the NFL and he started. He started for the best defense in the NFL when McDermott was in Carolina.... this guy gets so much hate for being a pretty darn good player at his position. Edited March 11, 2020 by warrior9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 44 minutes ago, SoTier said: I think that some posters misunderstood the analyst's criteria. He's basing his picks on play/production vs cost. Poyer is best because he's played great at a bargain price. Lotulelei is the worse not because he's played so poorly but because he hasn't played well enough to justify his big $$$. In that context, I think he's probably spot on. But that's not the criteria of the original premise, which is to identify the best and worst free agent signings from the past 5 years. Star might be an overall bad signing, but it's nowhere near the worst, especially when you look at the years prior to Beane and McDermott. Seems like recency bias. I can get behind Poyer as the best signing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 57 minutes ago, SoTier said: I think that some posters misunderstood the analyst's criteria. He's basing his picks on play/production vs cost. Poyer is best because he's played great at a bargain price. Lotulelei is the worse not because he's played so poorly but because he hasn't played well enough to justify his big $$$. In that context, I think he's probably spot on. Maybe some are, but I'm not. Play/production vs cost would be Kroft, in a landslide. "Lotulelei is a space-eater who makes life easier for his teammates, but that alone is probably not worth $10 million per year. -- Marcel Louis-Jacques" If Star were a space-eater who makes life easier for his teammates AND put up the numbers Marcel and some here would like to see, Star would be making Aaron Donald type money. Like I said earlier Marcel is way off on this one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 2019 Star- 2.0 Sacks, if we cut him no would sign him. 2019 D.J. Reader- 2.5 Sacks, hurry up lets pay him 15 Million dollars immediately 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 3 hours ago, warrior9 said: Tom Brady has done this and turned his salary in to guaranteed money a few times.. i'm pretty sure that's what they did with Star. I'm not sure he took a pay cut but took a restructured deal to count less against the cap. I could be wrong. Either way, if you genuinely believe he is the worst FA signing of the last 5 years.... you have no watched Bills football. If contract, etc is included, Kroft is worse than Star tbh. Brady took paycuts for different reasons than Star. Kroft’s contract is easily escapable. 2 hours ago, warrior9 said: Explain this, please. We have a pro-bowl second year LB. We have Jordan Phillips that benefited from him to the point we aren't even going to resign him. We had a top 3 defense in the NFL and he started. He started for the best defense in the NFL when McDermott was in Carolina.... this guy gets so much hate for being a pretty darn good player at his position. Maybe we should be paying JP and Levi $10M per because they also both started on a top 3 D. 3 hours ago, GoBills808 said: lmao @ driven back by single teams. Does he lose sometimes, of course. Every football player does. This is now two top defenses Lotulelei is anchoring. This is now two marginal DTs who are going to get paid $$$ because of him (Short and Phillips). So your argument is that Star is the Sammy Watkins decoy of DT’s?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 (edited) 19 hours ago, DCOrange said: If Clay's signing is included in the 5 year frame, then that's probably worse than Star. Star is #2 at best though. Fans seem to think so, but the idea just doesn't make sense, especially when you're comparing him to picking up Harvin as the 2nd-worst. This defense has been excellent the past two years with Star in the middle. McDermott has proved a lot of things the past three years but if there's one above all others, it's that he knows how to build a defense. If he thinks he needs a guy like Star, if he pays that much, if he brings him in as a guy he knows a ton about from his time coaching him for years at his previous stop, if he plays him consistently and if the defense is flat-out excellent ... then yeah McDermott needs him and thinks he's doing a good job. With Harvin on the other hand, he was seen coming in as a massive injury risk, having played in 14 games the previous two years combined, and - who'da think it? - turned out to be a massive injury risk, playing five games for $6M. Clay and Harvin were the worst two by a long way. It's fair to say the two safeties were maybe the two best. The D has been terrific at pass defense all year and those two are two of the biggest reasons for that. Edited March 12, 2020 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 15 hours ago, SoTier said: I think that some posters misunderstood the analyst's criteria. He's basing his picks on play/production vs cost. Poyer is best because he's played great at a bargain price. Lotulelei is the worse not because he's played so poorly but because he hasn't played well enough to justify his big $$$. In that context, I think he's probably spot on. I agree with Poyer was the best bargain contract but Clay was clearly the worst FA signing as we made him one of the highest paid TE's at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 15 hours ago, BringBackOrton said: Brady took paycuts for different reasons than Star. Kroft’s contract is easily escapable. 1)Maybe we should be paying JP and Levi $10M per because they also both started on a top 3 D. 2)So your argument is that Star is the Sammy Watkins decoy of DT’s?? 1) What's that go to do with the question of worst FA pickup? 2) WTH?!?! Not even close to what he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior9 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 15 hours ago, BringBackOrton said: Maybe we should be paying JP and Levi $10M per because they also both started on a top 3 D. Levi Wallace is a corner, he doesn't open up holes for linebackers to make plays nor does he take pressure off of the guys next to him. I can't tell if you're being a child with that statement or if you just don't understand football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 (edited) 33 minutes ago, warrior9 said: Levi Wallace is a corner, he doesn't open up holes for linebackers to make plays nor does he take pressure off of the guys next to him. I can't tell if you're being a child with that statement or if you just don't understand football. No, DB’s just cover long enough for the front 7 to make a play on the QB. Certainly no complementary football there! Nice to see you ignored the Phillips comparison, white flag alert? Edited March 12, 2020 by BringBackOrton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior9 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 17 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: No, DB’s just cover long enough for the front 7 to make a play on the QB. Certainly no complementary football there! Nice to see you ignored the Phillips comparison, white flag alert? I didn't ignore any comparison? In your response to me, there was no phillips comparison. Jordan Phillips was a decent player before he started playing next to Star. Just like Kawann Short was. Star leaves, his play falls off.. coincidence? hmmmmmmm The bold makes me cringe. I'm not even responding to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 10 minutes ago, warrior9 said: I didn't ignore any comparison? In your response to me, there was no phillips comparison. Jordan Phillips was a decent player before he started playing next to Star. Just like Kawann Short was. Star leaves, his play falls off.. coincidence? hmmmmmmm The bold makes me cringe. I'm not even responding to that. Jordan Phillips’ play fell off without Star? Where is your crystal ball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior9 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: Jordan Phillips’ play fell off without Star? Where is your crystal ball? Wow, you have reading comprehension issues. You are the guy that nitpicks starts arguments because of your lack of understanding/ for the sake of doing it I kind of feel bad for you. So let me break this down. Kawann Short has a great year playing next to Star. Star leaves. Kawann's play falls off... significantly. Is this a coincidence? JP was a decent player. He begins to play next to Star and he becomes a much better player. Is this a coincidence? Obviously (maybe not for you), JP has not played without Star and we have no way of knowing if his play will fall off, right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 On 3/10/2020 at 7:40 PM, GoBills808 said: Mmmm I'd go Hyde as best and either Benjamin or Davis as worst lmao Benjamin was a trade. They didn’t sign him. They took a flier on Vontae Davis and he didn’t look great. But it wasn’t like this was a high-money, high-profile signing. Also you can’t fault Beane for the unprofessional way that Vontae screwed the team over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seoulofstone Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 (edited) On 3/10/2020 at 10:38 PM, LSHMEAB said: I would say in some ways, Star represents my one gripe with McDermott's defense; I would rather not have 1 out of 11 defenders not even asked to make plays. I'd prefer a more aggressive defensive line. A stud pass rusher would go a long ways to solving the issues the defense had last season in terms of sacks/TO's, so we'll see what happens. I suppose it's ok to want more, but I think what McDermott and Frazier have achieved is far more impressive. For me what you're describing is the LA Rams. Dante Fowler, Clay Matthews, and of course the very special Aaron Donald. Cory Littleton, Jalen Ramsey. Great players coached by Wade Phillips. They ranked 17th. Would you swap personnel with LA? Would you swap statistics with that team in order to live out your more attacking scheme? I'm certain LA would swap the outcomes. Edited March 12, 2020 by Seoulofstone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Charles Clay should be on the list. By the numbers you can argue he was as productive as he was in Miami, but did he really ever make a big difference in games? Maybe in Miami where he couldn’t catch a pass in the endzone. Seriously though, this was a poor return on bad deal made by a terrible GM that hindered this team cap-wise for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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