Rochesterfan Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 7 hours ago, LSHMEAB said: The Bills hired McDermott based primarily on his ability to coach defense. Of course they liked his presence and message, but his area of expertise is defense. It would only make sense that if the Bills made a good hire, which they did, Carolina would fall off and Buffalo would improve. Except Carolina actually improved in Defense the year we hired McDermott and Carolina still had Star. They were a top defense against the run - #2 I believe. Those rankings really started to drop when they lost Star. It might not be the only reason as they also lost Steve Wilks to Arizona, but it did not help. That drop in rushing defense in Carolina was most pronounced last year as they dropped from top 5 to middle of the pack to finally stopping at bottom 3 in rushing defense. Meanwhile the Bills went the exact opposite way. With McDermott, but no Star, the Bills where bottom 5 in the league in run defense. They pick up Star and move immediately to middle of the pack, just as Carolina drops to middle of the pack. Last year the Bills were top 10 rushing defense as Carolina was in free fall. Now Star was not the only factor as you have Edmunds, Oliver, etc. but I do not believe you can discount what Star provides - even if he does not fill the stat sheet. Could they get the same production from a guy like “Snacks” at a lesser price - maybe, but they knew Star would accept his part time roll and help stabilize the room and help get the other lineman on the same page. I will not discount that - as Oliver and Kyle before him, The Phillips brothers, and all the pick-ups seemed to settle in and play fine on the line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wettlaufer Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Charles Clay sucked pretty bad. 5-year, $38 million signing. Averaged 44 receptions / 456 yards receiving, and 2.25 TDs per season in four seasons here. Not terrible numbers, but nothing like the near-elite money he came onto a team with offensive philosophies that needed a good receiving TE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Round Bust Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 the quitters are the answer: Boldin and Davis, not Beano's fault Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior9 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 12 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: If the Bills cut Star today, no one picks him up. If Star was cut today, he'd sign another 7-8 million AVV contract.. This board wants this guy to get sacks and that's it. That's just not him. He is a good player. This being the worst signing is absolutely ridiculous. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 12 hours ago, GoBills808 said: Mmmm I'd go Hyde as best and either Benjamin or Davis as worst lmao Benjamin was a trade yet agree Davis was a worse signing, all I know is since we added Star our defense has gotten better granted so did some of the players around him help too but think he gets a bad rap because he isn't one to show on the stat sheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 12 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: If the Bills cut Star today, no one picks him up. But if your Pats did, they'd be geniuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 If Clay's signing is included in the 5 year frame, then that's probably worse than Star. Star is #2 at best though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulldog Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 I have mostly enjoyed reading Marcel Louis-Jacques written reports & listening to his radio appearances. However - how can anyone think that Star Lotuleiei contributed less to the Bills than such stellar FA's like Reggie Bush & Vontae Davis? Those were too guys that sure added a lot to the cause! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 11 hours ago, GoBills808 said: Have a look @Carolina's defense, particularly run defense, from when Lotulelei was there and when they decided to pay Short instead. Or simply look at the Bills defense in the equivalent timeframe. Whether folks want to admit it or not Lotulelei is an important piece of the defense McDermott runs. He's been the most important part of the defensive line since they took over. If that's their biggest mistake they are batting 1.000. 11 hours ago, GoBills808 said: They hired him as HC not DC. I'm sure they were hoping he could do more than coach defense. Regardless, there's no use in arguing with people who don't understand the position Lotulelei plays. I had it out w/multiple posters midseason who were adamant he would be benched or cut and that Phillips was the only guy worth playing, or that Peko would be able to step in and send Star to the bench lmao...and I maintained then and still do that the line relied more heavily on Lotulelei than anyone else. It's very obvious when you watch them in isolation. You know they made him take a paycut, right? Like a guy who is living up to his contract and playing his role well DOESN’T get approached to take a paycut, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 KB was the worst. Rolled the dice and lost. I still think we overpaid for Star but at least he's a serviceable player. KB was awful. But if that's our worst, no big deal. Some of the late draft gems and smart signings easily make up for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Junction Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 23 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: You know they made him take a paycut, right? Like a guy who is living up to his contract and playing his role well DOESN’T get approached to take a paycut, right? They often do when they’re 30 or older, play an unheralded position, get another chunk of guaranteed money, like where they’re at, and value job security. Plus this offseason there are a bunch of good NTs (Hargrave, Reader, Pierce, etc) on the market which is rare. Star’s restructure was a win for both sides as it not only cuts his cap figure, but guarantees salary and insures he doesn’t have to compete with a saturated market. I’ll concede that Star is not a top 5 NT, so his initial FA contract was an overpay. However, I view that contract like buying a part for a SAAB.... You’ll have to over pay for a critical OEM part because the only alternative is something unreliable from the “pick and pull”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, BringBackOrton said: You know they made him take a paycut, right? Like a guy who is living up to his contract and playing his role well DOESN’T get approached to take a paycut, right? We know. We know. Still not even close to being the worst. Edited March 11, 2020 by Dopey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Buffalo Junction said: They often do when they’re 30 or older, play an unheralded position, get another chunk of guaranteed money, like where they’re at, and value job security. Plus this offseason there are a bunch of good NTs (Hargrave, Reader, Pierce, etc) on the market which is rare. Star’s restructure was a win for both sides as it not only cuts his cap figure, but guarantees salary and insures he doesn’t have to compete with a saturated market. I’ll concede that Star is not a top 5 NT, so his initial FA contract was an overpay. However, I view that contract like buying a part for a SAAB.... You’ll have to over pay for a critical OEM part because the only alternative is something unreliable from the “pick and pull”. That’s all fair, but a paycut doesn’t happen if Star and the Bills both feel like he’s living up to his contract. John Brown isn’t taking a paycut right now, for example. 48 minutes ago, Dopey said: We know. We know. Still not even close to being the worst. But it does fly in the face of “he’s the most important defensive player doing the most important job extremely well!” nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 21 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: That’s all fair, but a paycut doesn’t happen if Star and the Bills both feel like he’s living up to his contract. John Brown isn’t taking a paycut right now, for example. But it does fly in the face of “he’s the most important defensive player doing the most important job extremely well!” nonsense. I think he was the most important interior defensive lineman over the past 2 years and I made that pretty clear. Sometimes these threads can go way off topic. Back to the original premise of this thread, picking up Star in FA is far from being the worst move in the last 5 years. It looks like you can agree on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Junction Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 1 hour ago, BringBackOrton said: That’s all fair, but a paycut doesn’t happen if Star and the Bills both feel like he’s living up to his contract. John Brown isn’t taking a paycut right now, for example. There have been plenty of players that have come out and said that the only thing that matters in NFL contracts is the guaranteed money. Taking advantage of additional guaranteed money is likely more important to established vets who aren’t “premium” players at premium positions. Particularly if that player is over 30 when making an extra $1MM two to three years from now is less likely. Bird in hand.... “For 2020, Lotulelei’s base salary drops by $1.75M, but becomes fully guaranteed, with $2.5M in injury guarantees for 2021 added.” https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/2020/02/buffalo-bills-restructure-star-lotulelei-contract-what-it-means-for-both-sides.html%3foutputType=amp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 3 hours ago, BringBackOrton said: You know they made him take a paycut, right? Like a guy who is living up to his contract and playing his role well DOESN’T get approached to take a paycut, right? Your evidence he isn’t playing well is ‘well they restructured his deal’. My opinion of his play comes from having watched him this season, extensively. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 38 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Your evidence he isn’t playing well is ‘well they restructured his deal’. My opinion of his play comes from having watched him this season, extensively. I also watched him this season. I watched the guy “eating up space” get driven back by single teams. Did he make some good plays? Sure. Did he have a decent amount of bad plays on tape? Absolutely. Combine that with his bloated contract, which McBeane restructured, it sounds like me, McD, Beane, and Star all thought that taking a paycut was reasonable due to his performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior9 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, BringBackOrton said: That’s all fair, but a paycut doesn’t happen if Star and the Bills both feel like he’s living up to his contract. John Brown isn’t taking a paycut right now, for example. But it does fly in the face of “he’s the most important defensive player doing the most important job extremely well!” nonsense. Tom Brady has done this and turned his salary in to guaranteed money a few times.. i'm pretty sure that's what they did with Star. I'm not sure he took a pay cut but took a restructured deal to count less against the cap. I could be wrong. Either way, if you genuinely believe he is the worst FA signing of the last 5 years.... you have no watched Bills football. If contract, etc is included, Kroft is worse than Star tbh. Edited March 11, 2020 by warrior9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said: I also watched him this season. I watched the guy “eating up space” get driven back by single teams. Did he make some good plays? Sure. Did he have a decent amount of bad plays on tape? Absolutely. Combine that with his bloated contract, which McBeane restructured, it sounds like me, McD, Beane, and Star all thought that taking a paycut was reasonable due to his performance. lmao @ driven back by single teams. Does he lose sometimes, of course. Every football player does. This is now two top defenses Lotulelei is anchoring. This is now two marginal DTs who are going to get paid $$$ because of him (Short and Phillips). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills1212 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 17 hours ago, Augie said: KB was even worse, we gave up #3 a pick, right? Biggest mistake of this regime so far I think, but it happens. I won’t harp on one single move. . Agreed. KB was rough, but we all wanted a wr (maybe even in that mold) and he did. It didnt work, but at least he took a shot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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