BUF-HOU Playoff Redux: 2nd Half Kickoff

[RoyBatty is alive]

2 minutes ago, PolishPrince said:

You have poor reading comprehension if you think this rule is what happened in Bills game. This rule very clearly states if the kick lands in endzone, not caught and then tossed to hit the ground.

 

already responded about to this, this isnt the NF rulebook and the specifics of this event   arent covered.

 

 

[GoBills808]

18 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

already responded about to this, this isnt the NF rulebook and the specifics of this event   arent covered.

 

 

Well, they are:

 

ARTICLE 5. FREE KICK CROSSES GOAL LINE

It is a touchback, if a free kick:

1. touches the ground in the end zone before being touched by the receiving team.
2. goes out of bounds behind the receiving team’s goal line;
3. strikes the receiving team’s goal post, uprights, or cross bar; or
4. is downed in the end zone by the receiving team

4 is really the important section, because you can only down a ball by-

 

when a runner declares himself down by:

1. falling to the ground, or kneeling, and clearly making no immediate effort to advance.
2. sliding. When a runner slides, the ball is dead the instant he touches the ground with anything other than his hands or his feet. 

[Herc11]

2 hours ago, ogham26 said:

 When a fumble goes out of bounds in the end zone, the following shall apply:

1. If a ball is fumbled in the field of play, and goes forward into the opponent’s end zone and over the end line or sideline, a touchback is awarded to the defensive team; or
2. If a ball is fumbled in a team’s own end zone or in the field of play and goes out of bounds in the end zone, it is a safety, if that team provided the impetus that sent the ball into the end zone (See 11-5-1 for exception for momentum). If the impetus was provided by the opponent, it is a touchback.

 

 

so by rule it should have been a safety.  we still should have won the game but those extra 2 points and the ball could have ended things right then and there I believe.  

 

 

 

 

Did you even see the play?

2 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

"Mike Pereira, the NFL’s former vice president of officiating, backed up the call being change. “Didn’t see what happened on the touchback in the end zone but even if you don’t down it, tossing the ball to the official or dropping the ball intentionally ends the play,” Pereira wrote on Twitter. “You are deemed to have given yourself up.”

 

Pretty obvious and straightforward to me.

 

Bills fans have a tough time psychologically on this one for sure.

 

 

By the way, I think such a poll here at a Buffalo Bills chatroom will come up with totally logical and unbiased responses.

 

 

 

Where in the rule book does it state you can down a play by tossing it to the ref?

[MJS]

2 hours ago, ogham26 said:

 When a fumble goes out of bounds in the end zone, the following shall apply:

1. If a ball is fumbled in the field of play, and goes forward into the opponent’s end zone and over the end line or sideline, a touchback is awarded to the defensive team; or
2. If a ball is fumbled in a team’s own end zone or in the field of play and goes out of bounds in the end zone, it is a safety, if that team provided the impetus that sent the ball into the end zone (See 11-5-1 for exception for momentum). If the impetus was provided by the opponent, it is a touchback.

 

 

so by rule it should have been a safety.  we still should have won the game but those extra 2 points and the ball could have ended things right then and there I believe. 

Did the ball go out of bounds? A Bills player recovered the ball in the end zone and the ball was not fumbled into the end zone. It was already in the end zone.

[Herc11]

2 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

 

1) fielding a KO is nothing at all like running in the middle of the field 2) Makes no sense as the clock wouldn't stop anyway.

It's exactly like running the ball anywhere else on the field during a LIVE play.

[MJS]

Can someone explain the safety vs TD scenario?

EDIT: Oh, because people are interpreting him tossing the ball to the ref as a forward pass. Hmm, not sure I see it that way. You can fumble the ball forward.

Edited March 10, 2020 by MJS

[Herc11]

2 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

 

There is NO comparison to dropping a ball in the field of play and a returner in the endzone lobbing the ball to a ref.  Get real.

 Where do you get that either endzone is not the field of play?

[KD in CA]

Just tell yourself they would have blown a 20-0 lead so you can stop torturing yourselves.....

[sven233]

It was a TD.  It has been confirmed by multiple people both in the league and not that it should have been ruled a TD.  The same exact play happened in Clemson and it was correctly ruled a TD. There is no debate about this play anymore.  We got screwed.  Was he giving himself up?  Yes.  Did he do it by the letter of the rule?  No.  Plain and simple.  But multiple officials have stated it should have been ruled a TD regardless of how stupid it would have been.

 

 

Edited March 10, 2020 by sven233

[Augie]

3 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

If I intend to catch a fish but lose it at gaff...have I still caught it?

 

No, you go hungry. That’s how it works. No fish for you! 

 

I am almost able to go back and watch that game again. Almost..........

 

 

 

.

Edited March 10, 2020 by Augie

[mannc]

20 minutes ago, MJS said:

Can someone explain the safety vs TD scenario?

It was an illegal forward pass--not a fumble.  Because it was an illegal forward pass, it was a dead ball as soon as it hit the ground.  Because the illegal forward pass occurred in the Texans' end zone, it's a safety.  It would have properly been called a Bills TD if (1) the Bills intercepted the illegal forward pass and returned it for a TD or (2) it was a fumble that the Bills recovered in the Texans' endzone.   

[Herc11]

ARTICLE 1. DEAD BALL DECLARED

An official shall declare the ball dead and the down ended:

...

(d) when a runner declares himself down by:

            (1) falling to the ground, or kneeling, AND clearly making no immediate effort to advance.

...

(i) when a forward pass (legal or illegal) is incomplete.

 

ARTICLE 2. BALL TOUCHES OFFICIAL

The ball is not dead because it touches an official who is inbounds, or because of a signal by an official other than a whistle.

 

 

Here are the rules straight from the rule book on what constitutes a player being down regarding this situation.  Article 1, section (d) (1).... Clearly making no effort and "giving yourself up" is not in itself enough to rule a play down. The player must take a knee or go to the ground as well.

 

I also included a few other tidbits. The second he made a forward pass and it hit the ground the play was dead. This should of resulted in a penalty in the endzone which is a safety. Also, merely tossing the ball to the ref does NOT end the play as well.

[mannc]

3 hours ago, fl az fan said:

Everyone I talked to knew he was giving himself up. Did he do it by the rules of the game, no. But the intent was obvious JMO

Your argument would be more persuasive if there wasn't already a specific rule in place for how a player with the ball "gives himself up."  Hint:  it does not include merely tossing the ball to the nearest official.

3 minutes ago, Herc11 said:

ARTICLE 1. DEAD BALL DECLARED

An official shall declare the ball dead and the down ended:

...

(d) when a runner declares himself down by:

            (1) falling to the ground, or kneeling, AND clearly making no immediate effort to advance.

...

(i) when a forward pass (legal or illegal) is incomplete.

 

ARTICLE 2. BALL TOUCHES OFFICIAL

The ball is not dead because it touches an official who is inbounds, or because of a signal by an official other than a whistle.

 

 

Here are the rules straight from the rule book on what constitutes a player being down regarding this situation.  Article 1, section (d) (1).... Clearly making no effort and "giving yourself up" is not in itself enough to rule a play down. The player must take a knee or go to the ground as well.

 

I also included a few other tidbits. The second he made a forward pass and it hit the ground the play was dead. This should of resulted in a penalty in the endzone which is a safety. Also, merely tossing the ball to the ref does NOT end the play as well.

You are correct, sir.

Edited March 10, 2020 by mannc

[mannc]

2 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

 

No need to kneel

If a ball gets to the end zone and touches the ground, it’s an automatic touchback. There’s no need for a player to pick it up and kneel, or even catch a ball if it’s headed for the end zone and they don’t intend to return it.

This is a small time saver, but the goal is to blow a play dead earlier so that unnecessary collisions don’t happen. Under the previous rules, a player could take their time gathering a ball and kneeling while the coverage team and return team blockers still careened toward each other for no reason.

That's why the return man almost always just lets the kick land in the endzone if he doesn't plan to return it.  This knucklehead didn't, but the league bailed him out.

Edited March 10, 2020 by mannc

[GunnerBill]

It was a touchdown. I understand why the NFL overturned it on review but it was based on the way it looked rather than the way the rules read. 

[Orlando Tim]

54 minutes ago, MJS said:

Can someone explain the safety vs TD scenario?

EDIT: Oh, because people are interpreting him tossing the ball to the ref as a forward pass. Hmm, not sure I see it that way. You can fumble the ball forward.

He clearly intentionally pitched ball forward therefore a safety. If you intentionally throw it forward it is a pass even if not to another player.

[The Jokeman]

2 hours ago, Billl said:

Completely incorrect.  This was ruled a touchback which is neither a turnover nor a scoring play.

The ruling on the field was a TD. It was over ruled by the men in black. 

[Billl]

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Well, they are:

 

ARTICLE 5. FREE KICK CROSSES GOAL LINE

It is a touchback, if a free kick:

1. touches the ground in the end zone before being touched by the receiving team.
2. goes out of bounds behind the receiving team’s goal line;
3. strikes the receiving team’s goal post, uprights, or cross bar; or
4. is downed in the end zone by the receiving team

4 is really the important section, because you can only down a ball by-

 

when a runner declares himself down by:

1. falling to the ground, or kneeling, and clearly making no immediate effort to advance.
2. sliding. When a runner slides, the ball is dead the instant he touches the ground with anything other than his hands or his feet. 

So if a runner kneels and then gets right back up and runs, he should be free to advance the ball, right?  I mean the letter of the law says you have to kneel AND make no immediate effort to advance.  No room for common sense allowed.

[GoBills808]

9 minutes ago, Billl said:

So if a runner kneels and then gets right back up and runs, he should be free to advance the ball, right?  I mean the letter of the law says you have to kneel AND make no immediate effort to advance.  No room for common sense allowed.

I think it's physically impossible to simultaneously kneel and immediately advance.

[Sig1Hunter]

15 minutes ago, Billl said:

So if a runner kneels and then gets right back up and runs, he should be free to advance the ball, right?  I mean the letter of the law says you have to kneel AND make no immediate effort to advance.  No room for common sense allowed.

Is he making an effort to advance while kneeling? I’d be interested to see that..