YoloinOhio Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 Just now, BillsFan17 said: Not saying its the case with the poster you are responding with, but echo chambers are certainly real around here. There seem to be a regurgitated narrative of the same "knocks" on Higgins over and over, despite arguments to the contrary. I think I can’t do it anymore - it’s really weird to me with the Higgins stuff. He’s been a stud since high school, Ohio state was dying to get him, they do not recruit slow players, he’s been a stud ever since, until like... a month ago. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFT Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said: I think I can’t do it anymore - it’s really weird to me with the Higgins stuff. He’s been a stud since high school, Ohio state was dying to get him, they do not recruit slow players, he’s been a stud ever since, until like... a month ago. Just logged in to see this and can’t help but chuckle at some of the reactions here. Keep your high opinion of him though. I think the Bills feel the same way (as do I). I can’t help but see a very similar skill set to A.J. Green and his PD did nothing but fuel that for me. Not disrespecting anyone else’s opinion here, but some of these posts are just nonsensical at best. Someone’s going to get a good one, in Higgs. No question. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: I think I can’t do it anymore - it’s really weird to me with the Higgins stuff. He’s been a stud since high school, Ohio state was dying to get him, they do not recruit slow players, he’s been a stud ever since, until like... a month ago. Ah, but is he the 22nd best player available in this draft? Or the 30th? Or the 40th? Every one of the top 50 draft candidates is a stud. But if for example, the Bills have to choose between Higgins and Chaisson (or [fill in the blank]) at pick #22, a call has to be made as to which guy provides better value. Personally, that's all this argument is about to me... Edited March 13, 2020 by Lurker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 13 hours ago, whatdrought said: Nope. Not at all. That’s my point. I don’t care for Higgins, the fact that there are a lot of questions about him and PFF likes him increases my hesitation. That's what I saw. Just googled him and CBS sports was saying he ran 2x in the mid 45 range. But not great. Guys like Claypool, Mims, and Jefferson are out doing him physically. Out doing people physically means nothing. Combine warriors mean nothing. Im not knocking those prospects, I am just saying its meaningless information to say those guys performed better physically at the combine. I dont get the hate on Higgins at all. I dont have a crystal ball and cant tell you who will bust or hit at WR in this draft, but I can say with upmost confidence that this is a quality prospect and has as good a shot as any at being a pro bowl WR in the NFL. There is a reason he is ranked higher by most accounts than Mims, Claypool and Jefferson. And nothing against those guys, they are all intriguing and quality prospects themselves. But a 40 time is no where near as important to the success of a WR at the NFL level. Some of the best WR's in history and in the game now ran much slower 40's than Higgins. Bottom line, Higgins is more than fast enough to be an elite WR at the next level. That in no way guarantees he will be, but his speed is definitely not an issue. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 29 minutes ago, Lurker said: Ah, but is he the 22nd best player available in this draft? Or the 30th? Or the 40th? Every one of the top 50 draft candidates is a stud. But if for example, the Bills have to choose between Higgins and Chaisson (or [fill in the blank]) at pick #22, a call has to be made as to which guy provides better value. Personally, that's all this argument is about to me... I have no idea, but as I’ve often said I believe in this draft he’s a 2nd rounder. Would not surprise me to see him go in the 1st. WRs outside of the top 3 wlll likely be pushed down in favor of top heavy positions with little depth such as OT and pass rusher. Even if he was the 22nd best player it doesn’t mean he would go at 22, that’s a big board not a draft. Wherever he goes he’s an alpha WR who projects to a #1 target. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Reed83HOF said: Higgins does not have the skillset to play anywhere on the field, he honestly is too slow to play inside and get any type of separation; his skill set is more for outside work. Versatility and being able to go over the middle, play outside and adjust your routes based on the D look requires very versatile players. Higgins is not all that versatile, frankly there are better prospects ahead of him when it comes to the tier 2 guys and not one of the tier 2 guys will be BPA at 22, that still appears to to be CB. So no, I challenge the thought that we need a traditional X WR, we need players who can catch the ball and are very versatile in their routes I don't agree there are better prospects ahead of him as the tier 2 guys if you mean specifically at receiver. He is in my opinion very much the best of the rest. If the Bills are taking a receiver at #22 and it is not one of the top 3 guys then Higgins and Aiyuk are the only two I could live with - though I agree both are not going to be in the conversation for BPA at that spot. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 14 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: I’m not Pro or anti Higgins but I would trust the film on the WRs and not get wrapped up in straightline 40 times. Higgins isn’t a burner to begin with but he’s bigger and faster than say, Michael Thomas and Deandre Hopkins were when they were drafted. His hands are probably some of the best in the draft. my two concerns with Justin Jefferson are that he operated almost completely out of the slot, and Burrow is a pinpoint passer. That’s not to say he couldn’t play outside in the nfl or catch passes that are slightly off target, but just that we haven’t seen it so it’s more of a projection. This 100% echoes my view. And it isn't just that Jefferson operated mainly in the slot this year.... it is that he did play on the outside much more the previous year and frankly if I was giving him a grade purely on those performances as an outside guy it would be an early day 3 pick. I don't buy he is very versatile. I think Jefferson could be one of the best slot receivers in the league. But it is hard for someone who I think is basically a slot only to get a 1st round grade off me. I think he will go late on day 1 though to Green Bay or New Orleans who already have dominant outside guys and are looking for a running mate. And he will have a good NFL career Jefferson. I think his floor is pretty high. But I don't think his ceiling is anywhere near the potential ceiling for Tee Higgins (or as high as a number of other guys I have above him). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I don't agree there are better prospects ahead of him as the tier 2 guys if you mean specifically at receiver. He is in my opinion very much the best of the rest. If the Bills are taking a receiver at #22 and it is not one of the top 3 guys then Higgins and Aiyuk are the only two I could live with - though I agree both are not going to be in the conversation for BPA at that spot. I like Aiyuk better and I have a facsination with Mims (who I think I like better than Higgins). Again it is more of Higgins as a fit for who we are on offense. JMO of course! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 7 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: I like Aiyuk better and I have a facsination with Mims (who I think I like better than Higgins). Again it is more of Higgins as a fit for who we are on offense. JMO of course! There is no way Mims should be a first rounder. He is a borderline second rounder. That really would be a remote through the TV pick for me if the Bills did that at #22. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 Just now, GunnerBill said: There is no way Mims should be a first rounder. He is a borderline second rounder. That really would be a remote through the TV pick for me if the Bills did that at #22. At #22 I am not touching any of these guys or the tier 2 WRs (have said that many times). At #22 CB/S is looking like BPA by far and you can't pass that talent up IMO. I am also a dealer and believe we should hunt for elite talent, if any of the top 3 are available at pick #10 may ass is on the phone trying to move up. If that doesn't work out, the consolation prize will be the DB @ 22 and then figure out where I need to get to for Aiyuk and if I can't pull that off I'm looking at Reagor and Mims (who may be as a high as a mid/late #2 - depends on how the draft and who falls, who doesn't and what the positional runs are). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 (edited) @GunnerBill Edited March 13, 2020 by Reed83HOF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: Wow! That's a whole different story than the unofficial numbers yesterday... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: @GunnerBill Doesn't change my view one iota. Oh and while we are on the subject of Wirfs... I have seen a lot of people start to come round to my view he is the top tackle in this draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: Doesn't change my view one iota. Oh and while we are on the subject of Wirfs... I have seen a lot of people start to come round to my view he is the top tackle in this draft. Wirfs looks damn good! Also, should always watch the tape and not fall in love or out of love with numbers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Lurker said: Wow! That's a whole different story than the unofficial numbers yesterday... Allbright should know that if he goes in the 2nd, it’s because he would have already gone in the 2nd. Pro day #s don’t push a guy from the 1st to the 2nd round. They might take another look at the film but we already know the 10 yard split would show that ie “resorts to physicality within the 1st 10 yards to win positioning” . I don’t know if Allbright thought he originally was going in the 1st or not. Obviously no one knows the team draft boards. Edited March 13, 2020 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcampbell104 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 what ever beane decides i'm good with, i trust him more than anyone on these boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said: Out doing people physically means nothing. Combine warriors mean nothing. Im not knocking those prospects, I am just saying its meaningless information to say those guys performed better physically at the combine. Perhaps so. Nick Saban smirks just a bit when he talks about the combines. 1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said: I dont get the hate on Higgins at all. I dont have a crystal ball and cant tell you who will bust or hit at WR in this draft, but I can say with upmost confidence that this is a quality prospect and has as good a shot as any at being a pro bowl WR in the NFL. Not that I am necessarily right mind you but I must completely, 100% disagree. Have you ever really watched Jerry Jeudy? He is virtually impossible to cover and is quite dangerous after the catch. I am not a pro scout but I do not put the 2 of them even in the same class. jmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 11 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said: Perhaps so. Nick Saban smirks just a bit when he talks about the combines. Not that I am necessarily right mind you but I must completely, 100% disagree. Have you ever really watched Jerry Jeudy? He is virtually impossible to cover and is quite dangerous after the catch. I am not a pro scout but I do not put the 2 of them even in the same class. jmo. Well you are not really understanding what I said. I didnt say he has the as good a chance as any to be the BEST WR in the draft. I said he has as good as any to be a Pro Bowl WR. More than one WR in this draft can become a pro bowl WR. I mean Higgins can be a pro bowl WR while Lamb and Juedy both are too. Heck, Higgins can be a perennial pro bowler with both Juedy and Lamb still having better numbers and career. Making the pro bowl doesn't mean he's the best of the bunch, just means we got a pretty good WR on our team. So I stand by my statement, he has as much chance to be a Pro Bowl WR as any guy we could take in the first 2 rounds, especially before hitting the field. And while I totally agree Juedy and Lamb are the best of the bunch in terms of prospects, elite top end prospects don't reach the expectations all the time. I mean Watkins was by far the best WR in his draft class at the time of his draft, mostly unanimous. And he's been surpassed by a lot of guys in that draft. Spiller was the best overall offensive weapon in his entire draft...and he fizzled. So I dont like to over inflate success chances of even the elite prospects. And Higgins is not exactly a reach here, he is a top end prospect himself even if not graded quite as high as Juedy and Lamb. Again, I am not saying in anyway Higgins is a lock to be a stud, just saying I dont see why so many people are certain he wont be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 2 hours ago, whatdrought said: That makes sense, but the problem is that he looks slow on game tape. And that's a concern. Big, lumbering WR's that can't create seperation and are good not great route runners don't go places in the NFL. He looks slow on game tape? That does not seem right to me. He looks plenty fast from what I have seen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 13 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said: He looks slow on game tape? That does not seem right to me. He looks plenty fast from what I have seen. He is a long strider........that is why he looks slower.....but those strides cover a lot of ground. Tee Higgins is NOT slow.....I actually like him very much at 22. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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