Bleeding Bills Blue Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Rochesterfan said: The franchise tag was designed to allow teams to keep players and sometimes potentially work on contract extensions. There was never any rule designating how or when it could be used. The Bills used this tactic to trade Peerless Price way back in the early 2000’s - as a matter of fact it is a very common usage of the franchise tag. If it was such an issue - why did the players agree to it again. The NFL moved on THC, but the NFLPA left he franchise tag in place. Therefore - don’t blame the Jaguars for protecting their investment - this was part of the CBA and Yannick has choices, but those are bargained for and he is still a Jaguar and not a FA. It is Yannick’s right to walk away, but that involves sitting out a year and he has that choice. Other than that this is no different than any player that is under contract and no longer wants to be on that team. What you're saying is true. However, the relationship is broken. He has basically said he won't play there. If he signs and you fine him/force him to play... are you really going to get a team player with total buy in? No. Trade him now and at least you get a 2020 asset. If you wait too long you're looking at a 2021 asset post draft, or if he walks in 2021 a 2022 comp pick at best. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Just now, dneveu said: What you're saying is true. However, the relationship is broken. He has basically said he won't play there. If he signs and you fine him/force him to play... are you really going to get a team player with total buy in? No. Trade him now and at least you get a 2020 asset. If you wait too long you're looking at a 2021 asset post draft, or if he walks in 2021 a 2022 comp pick at best. That might be true, but maybe right now - no one wants to trade for much of anything. The Jags have a few options, but the trade can not happen until he signs. Right now seems to make the most sense for the Jags because you get a 2020 pick and you free up the cash. It also makes sense for other teams as they can get him resigned to a long term contract, but teams are reluctant until after seeing what they can get in the draft. If it drags to the summer - teams will be unable to resign him and you get another Clowney situation. I think ideally Jacksonville would have already made the trade, but reports are many teams are reluctant to trade for the high draft pick because of the draft capital and then the money needed to get a deal done. I also think Jacksonville is not really looking to 2020 and may be more focused on 2021 and they may not mind some extra draft capital next year with Lawerence and most likely a whole new staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 33 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: That might be true, but maybe right now - no one wants to trade for much of anything. The Jags have a few options, but the trade can not happen until he signs. Right now seems to make the most sense for the Jags because you get a 2020 pick and you free up the cash. It also makes sense for other teams as they can get him resigned to a long term contract, but teams are reluctant until after seeing what they can get in the draft. If it drags to the summer - teams will be unable to resign him and you get another Clowney situation. I think ideally Jacksonville would have already made the trade, but reports are many teams are reluctant to trade for the high draft pick because of the draft capital and then the money needed to get a deal done. I also think Jacksonville is not really looking to 2020 and may be more focused on 2021 and they may not mind some extra draft capital next year with Lawerence and most likely a whole new staff. Yeah - a 5th in 2020 is a lot less valuable than a 3rd or something in 2021. Only select teams have cap to extend at this point. Miami could make it work, but they're also going to wait til the draft is over to see how big the need is there. 3 1sts is a chance to get a cost controlled DE across from Lawson, but its dependant on how this draft turns out. Likely they take a QB, and an OT in the first. DE isn't notably strong outside of young, and they have ogbah and charlton as options. Ngakoue is better than probably all of those options though, and the price is probably a lot lower than people thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 57 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: The franchise tag was designed to allow teams to keep players and sometimes potentially work on contract extensions. There was never any rule designating how or when it could be used. The Bills used this tactic to trade Peerless Price way back in the early 2000’s - as a matter of fact it is a very common usage of the franchise tag. If it was such an issue - why did the players agree to it again. The NFL moved on THC, but the NFLPA left he franchise tag in place. Therefore - don’t blame the Jaguars for protecting their investment - this was part of the CBA and Yannick has choices, but those are bargained for and he is still a Jaguar and not a FA. It is Yannick’s right to walk away, but that involves sitting out a year and he has that choice. Other than that this is no different than any player that is under contract and no longer wants to be on that team. You're completely missing the point. Regardless, I'm done with this topic for today, except I'll correct your inaccurate statement, that he can't just sit out the year and be done with it because the team can Franchise Tag him again next year, and again the year after. It's not until it's done for 3 years that it becomes really uncomfortable for the team and if you don't see the injustice in that, there's nothing I can say to enlighten you. Have a fine evening sir / madam and Go Bills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 1 hour ago, BigBuff423 said: You're completely missing the point. Regardless, I'm done with this topic for today, except I'll correct your inaccurate statement, that he can't just sit out the year and be done with it because the team can Franchise Tag him again next year, and again the year after. It's not until it's done for 3 years that it becomes really uncomfortable for the team and if you don't see the injustice in that, there's nothing I can say to enlighten you. Have a fine evening sir / madam and Go Bills! I am not sure what point you think I am missing. I fully understand what you are saying and think it is totally wrong. It sucks for the player, but that is tough - he is not a free agent because the Jags exercised their collectively bargained right to name him a franchise player. That is fine and I do not see the injustice as that is part of the CBA. If the players want it gone - bargain it away. If not - stop whining when it hurts one player - when 14 other players have been tagged and are dealing with it just fine. I get that he does not want to be there, but it is no way unfair to him or to the team that the Jaguars used a viable negotiated option to hold on to a valuable piece and try to recoup some cost. If you do not understand that - then I can not enlighten you further. You see a negotiated part of the CBA as unfair and I see it as a viable option being used. That does not mean it does not suck for certain players that want out, but in no way is he a hostage. He has options to use. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Rochesterfan said: The franchise tag is perfectly fair. If the players wanted it out - they should have negotiated it out of the CBA. The Jaguars are using it exactly as they should - they have an asset they want to keep and have put a tag on that asset. Yannick now has his options. He can sign and be one of he highest paid players or he can hold out. If he wants to be traded - that is fine, but he will have to sign prior to he trade. If he wants to tweet crap about how unfair everything is - then he can do that, but if that makes his trade value drop and the Jaguars decide it is not worth it - then that is on Yannick for causing his own situation. Want to bet that he’s not a Jaguar next season? 2 hours ago, Rochesterfan said: You would be correct if he was a free agent, but the NFLPA agreed (and left it in he newer agreement) that teams are allowed to designate one player as a franchise player/transitional player and pay them a 1 year salary commiserate with that designation. The team has the option to do that for a couple of years to give them and the player a chance to work things out. If he wants to go (and he has made that clear) then he has limited his own choices at this point. The Jags have said they will move him for fair market value and they have not received that offer. Yannick is now making it harder to reach that - so it becomes less likely the team trades him - which is the point of the twitter battle. What’s the bet that he’s not a Jaguar next season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Just now, Billl said: Want to bet that he’s not a Jaguar next season? I would assume he will not be a Jaguar for all of this season - let alone next season. See Clowney for what I would expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Rochesterfan said: The franchise tag was designed to allow teams to keep players and sometimes potentially work on contract extensions. There was never any rule designating how or when it could be used. The Bills used this tactic to trade Peerless Price way back in the early 2000’s - as a matter of fact it is a very common usage of the franchise tag. If it was such an issue - why did the players agree to it again. The NFL moved on THC, but the NFLPA left he franchise tag in place. Therefore - don’t blame the Jaguars for protecting their investment - this was part of the CBA and Yannick has choices, but those are bargained for and he is still a Jaguar and not a FA. It is Yannick’s right to walk away, but that involves sitting out a year and he has that choice. Other than that this is no different than any player that is under contract and no longer wants to be on that team. The team exercised their choices to the detriment of their employee, and Yannick is exercising his choice to call them on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Billl said: The team exercised their choices to the detriment of their employee, and Yannick is exercising his choice to call them on it. Correct - which is why I have no issue with it. My issue is with someone calling him a hostage. The team exercised their right with a hope to recoup something via trade. That is their right. Yannick can complain - which drops his perceived value - making it less likely they can find a viable trade partner. If they can’t find a trade partner - then he is stuck either playing or holding out. The Jaguars can then repeat this again next year. Yannick’s best path was to sound engaged and hopeful, but to reiterate that he wants out and to market himself as a good guy in a bad situation. Instead - he has chosen to act like an idiot - reducing his field and reducing his potential salary going forward. Again see Clowney. He was in the same boat - held out and now he is way below expected value on his next contract. He is in a bad enough place that the team that traded a pick for him is looking at repeating the trade with Yannick and letting Clowney walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: I would assume he will not be a Jaguar for all of this season - let alone next season. See Clowney for what I would expect. Then why did you just say he’s making it less likely that they trade him? We both know that’s not true. The Jaguars have proven that they are an inept organization that won’t bargain in good faith with their players. Yannick tried to play nice, and it got him nowhere. Now he’s left having to make a heel turn in order to get out. It worked for Ramsey. It worked for Fowler. It’s going to work for Yannick. Nobody is going to want to play for Jacksonville. They’re a garbage employer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, Billl said: Then why did you just say he’s making it less likely that they trade him? We both know that’s not true. The Jaguars have proven that they are an inept organization that won’t bargain in good faith with their players. Yannick tried to play nice, and it got him nowhere. Now he’s left having to make a heel turn in order to get out. It worked for Ramsey. It worked for Fowler. It’s going to work for Yannick. Nobody is going to want to play for Jacksonville. They’re a garbage employer. 1st - he has not played nice at all. He has repeatedly been a complete jerk about the team and the situation. Enough so that if you read through the various threads - many people even on here wanted him because of his talent and now that number of fans wanted him has dropped off to the point that they are saying he is not worth the headache. The same thing is happening with teams and GMs. They see the way he is acting - so teams are hedging and lowballing the Jags. That is why it becomes less likely the Jags trade him right now. They want what they consider to be fair compensation- most likely a 1st rd pick and maybe a throw in pick. As Yannick acts out - the value teams offer decrease and therefore they are less likely to make the deal at this point. Therefore; Yannick is forced to be a Jaguar longer. My guess is for Yannick - like Clowney- it will take him holding out in the season for a contender to try and make a deal. At that point he will not be able to renegotiate and therefore compensation will be closer to a 2nd or a 3rd. The Jags also have the option of holding on and seeing if he is worth more next year. We both know he does not want to play another game as a Jaguar, but the fact is by acting the way he is - Yannick is lessening the number of teams willing to trade for him and lowering the compensation and that means the Jags are more likely to hold out longer waiting for a deal. Much like Peerless Price years ago in Buffalo - if after making his wishes known - Yannick had shut up - he might have already been traded. He hasn’t and therefore his value has decreased in the short term causing the team to wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostbitmic Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Has Yannick cried again that Incognito called him a bad name ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
808 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 10 hours ago, thebandit27 said: Would you also complain about your situation as though you have it so bad when there’s a global pandemic occurring and you could literally make yourself a life-changing amount of money with the strike of a pen? Again, it’s his prerogative to hold out and do what he’s doing. No bones on my end. It’s also rather silly to act like he’s being held hostage by a $20M guaranteed contract offer. how did scottie pippen feel when he was the 122nd highest paid player in the league and everyone told him it was a mistake but he didnt wanna risk injury and not get paid more? youre too focused on how much it is in front of you. When you know for a fact youd get 80% more by just saying you dont want to play on a franchise tag. If players went on your logic they would be getting paid far less and owners would be hoarding wayyy more. Pay the players 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bferra13 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 7 hours ago, Billl said: Then why did you just say he’s making it less likely that they trade him? We both know that’s not true. The Jaguars have proven that they are an inept organization that won’t bargain in good faith with their players. Yannick tried to play nice, and it got him nowhere. Now he’s left having to make a heel turn in order to get out. It worked for Ramsey. It worked for Fowler. It’s going to work for Yannick. Nobody is going to want to play for Jacksonville. They’re a garbage employer. Man, this is silly. Yannick tried to play nice my arse. He acted like a baby from the beginning, and here we are. That Khan jr is a Jack wagon as well for even responding, but they still hold all the cards. If the value isnt there, let him hold out a year. He can come back like leveon bell and be a shell of his former self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 10 hours ago, Bferra13 said: Man, this is silly. Yannick tried to play nice my arse. He acted like a baby from the beginning, and here we are. That Khan jr is a Jack wagon as well for even responding, but they still hold all the cards. If the value isnt there, let him hold out a year. He can come back like leveon bell and be a shell of his former self. You completely ignored the question. In one post, you said that his actions make it less likely that he will be traded. When I called you on it, you then said you expected him to be traded. Now you’re saying they hold all the cards and he can sit out and come back a shell of himself. I’m telling you that none of these things will happen. He’s going to be traded, and it’s going to be because of his refusal to sit quietly back and let other people tell him who he has to work for and what the terms will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 (edited) 21 hours ago, BigBuff423 said: Look bandit, not that it matters but you and I agree on most things, and I'm NOT saying Yannick is handling it the right way - but point in fact is he is not permitted to leave the team to play for another - that is the very definition of being held hostage. It's not about the fact that he wants more money at this point, it's that he no longer wants to play for that team, irrespective of the money. When I want to leave, for any reason, and I'm not permitted to leave for any reason, I am being held hostage. Something or someone is precluding my exit from the situation or location, that's exactly what this Franchise Tag is at this point: nailing them to a location (team). He is 100% free to leave the NFL and take any other $20 million per year job available that hes qualified for. Or hes free to not work ever again. That is the very definition of not a hostage. A hostage is not a person who has been denied his right to void contracts, choose his team, AND collect his multi-million dollar guaranteed money. Edited April 22, 2020 by Jauronimo 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIZ Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardhatharry Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, PIZ said: Raiders are such a disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk71 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) I am glad he is not a Buffalo Bill. I never wanted him to be. In my estimation he is a pass rusher and just average against the run, too much money and draft value for that. Edited April 23, 2020 by Turk71 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 24 minutes ago, PIZ said: well we were never going to do that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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