Anything less than winning the division next year is a failure

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

19 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I think you miss the point on SF.   They built from the lines out; i.e. the o-line and d-line are where their resources went first, and that goes a long way toward helping your QB.  Jimmy G is not a superstar, he's ok.  If SF didn't have a very good o-line, no way they come close to the SB.

 

I don't think the key for the Bills is another QB.  They need to address the right side of the line and get a WR1 and RB, offensively.  They need to get an OLB, and DE this year on defense.

 

 

This is the best post in an otherwise completely dismal and depressing thread.

[HOUSE]

So, it only becomes a failure this year?

 

Wow, you guys are so understanding....

[BBills88]

Anything less than the playoffs and/or a Superbowl loss is a failure 

[Sweats]

Win the division and then still lose in the 1st round of the playoffs................check.

[youngjebrey]

Was checking the Vegas lines today and there was a shift in the lines for afc east champs. Pats went from -400 to -335 and Bills went from +450 to +400. Brady potentially leaving has Vegas worried just a little bit. 

[Happy]

2 hours ago, Billl said:

That doesn’t make them any less of an outlier.  SF two years ago was in a similar position to Buffalo in 2019, but JG got hurt and the season cratered.  They drafted Nick Bosa at 2 whereas Allen had a healthy season and will pick 26th.  The 26th pick last year was also a DE, but it was Montez Sweat instead of Bosa.  Then in the second round, they got Deebo.  
 

Do you think they make the Super Bowl by drafting Sweat and Paris Campbell instead of Bosa and Samuel?  I sure don’t.  If Buffalo drafts the next Bosa and Deebo, they're in the mix for a Super Bowl next year.

 

If drafting smart and making good FA acquisitions is an outlier, then I guess they are an outlier.  All you are doing is lowering the bar for all other teams, including the Bills.

 

You could be right regarding Bosa and Samuel.  But why stop there; how about Kittle, Mostert, and Juszczyk?  All big contributors on offense.  How about a strong offensive line?  Without that, no way Garappolo does anything.  The point is they made a complete overhaul of Chip Kelly's disaster in a two year timeframe.  It is possible to get to the SB within three years...outlier or not.

[jimmy10]

I think the great American poet V. A. “Nilla” Ice put it best when he said:

 

”Anything less than the best is a felony.”

[LSHMEAB]

15 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

SF may be considered an outlier by some only because few teams have a GM as good as John Lynch, or an offensive mind as good as Kyle Shanahan.  Game management-wise, Kyle is still learning, but that is beside the point.  McD and Beane need to step it up this year - beat NE, win the division, and be a legitimate SB contender.  I don't think they necessarily need to go to the SB, but they need to take a step forward.  Anything less is either status quo or a step back; either one and changes need to be made.  Can't accept platitudes in lieu of progress.

Right. I respect where Augie is coming from in terms of SF as an outlier, but the outliers are the best teams that eventually have a chance to play in and win Superbowls. These are the teams doing it better than the rest.

 

I'm very pleased with the progress the team has made, but I'm not complacent. My hope is that Beane and McDermott are "outliers."

 

We're gonna find out quite a bit this season.

14 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

My employer is hoping “better” but to them that just means “more”.

 

In addition to producing more,  everyday I am teaching the next generation how to do MY job, not someone else’s job. 

 

Daboll has been taught by BB and Sabin.  That’s as good as it gets in his business.  Yet, after years in the business, he still needs to be “managed up”?  And the guy who watched as Daboll iced the running game with a 3 score lead in a playoff game is the guy who is going to “manage up” Daboll? 
 

That makes little sense to me. 

 

 

Sadly, Bill Walsh is  no longer with us to mentor BD.

[Mr. WEO]

8 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Right. I respect where Augie is coming from in terms of SF as an outlier, but the outliers are the best teams that eventually have a chance to play in and win Superbowls. These are the teams doing it better than the rest.

 

I'm very pleased with the progress the team has made, but I'm not complacent. My hope is that Beane and McDermott are "outliers."

 

We're gonna find out quite a bit this season.

Sadly, Bill Walsh is  no longer with us to mentor BD.

 

 

Maybe Jordan Palmer can help him....

[Happy]

1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said:

Right. I respect where Augie is coming from in terms of SF as an outlier, but the outliers are the best teams that eventually have a chance to play in and win Superbowls. These are the teams doing it better than the rest.

 

I'm very pleased with the progress the team has made, but I'm not complacent. My hope is that Beane and McDermott are "outliers."

 

We're gonna find out quite a bit this season.

 

I think we're going to find out quite a bit during FA and the draft.  What positions are they looking to upgrade and holes are they looking to fill?  What are they willing to roll with, as is?  SF turning over most of the 2016 roster in 2017, so Beane and McD can certainly upgrade multiple positions on both sides of the ball in the next several months.  I'd like to see them as outliers, but time will tell on that one.

[Shaw66]

2 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I think we're going to find out quite a bit during FA and the draft.  What positions are they looking to upgrade and holes are they looking to fill?  What are they willing to roll with, as is?  SF turning over most of the 2016 roster in 2017, so Beane and McD can certainly upgrade multiple positions on both sides of the ball in the next several months.  I'd like to see them as outliers, but time will tell on that one.

What I expect is this:   No big-name free agents, but a lot of guys who will compete for jobs - oline, dline, all over the field.   Then more of the same in the draft.   I expect a lot of fans will be disappointed, because there won't be names like Allen, Edmunds and Oliver added, just really good football players. 

 

What I expect will happen is that there will be intense competition in camp and preseason, and the Bills will go into the season with 5-7 new starters (some rookies, some free agents), and a few rookies will begin earning playing time as the season goes on.   Oline, dline and linebacker battles will be fierce.   The TEs will be challenged.   The wideouts definitely will be challenged - only Brown and Beasley are safe.   

[Shaw66]

17 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

 Anything less is either status quo or a step back; either one and changes need to be made.  Can't accept platitudes in lieu of progress.

That's your view.   

 

I am certain that other than a total implosion, like 5-11 and rebellion in the locker room, Beane and McDermott are locks for 2021.   Their plan is long-term, they've sold it to the Pegulas, and they won't be going anywhere in 2021.  

 

Remember, the Pegulas lived through Marrone and Rex, lived through an extraordinarily unhappy fan base, lived through the press storming their doors.   Then these two came, everything settled down, everyone seemed to be on track, and they went to the playoffs two seasons out of three.   They've seen chaos in Cleveland and other franchises.   They aren't going to be in a hurry to dump the guys who took them to peace and harmony and playoffs.  

[Happy]

4 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

What I expect is this:   No big-name free agents, but a lot of guys who will compete for jobs - oline, dline, all over the field.   Then more of the same in the draft.   I expect a lot of fans will be disappointed, because there won't be names like Allen, Edmunds and Oliver added, just really good football players. 

 

What I expect will happen is that there will be intense competition in camp and preseason, and the Bills will go into the season with 5-7 new starters (some rookies, some free agents), and a few rookies will begin earning playing time as the season goes on.   Oline, dline and linebacker battles will be fierce.   The TEs will be challenged.   The wideouts definitely will be challenged - only Brown and Beasley are safe.   

 

I'm fine with that; not looking for big names, just good players.  What I am hoping to see is guys like Star and Ford compete for their jobs and playing time, not just given a spot because McD "believes in them" or that he "is their biggest defender."  Guys like Murphy should get cut because they're just not good enough, rather than being kept around because they "have that DNA."

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said:

 

I'm very pleased with the progress the team has made, but I'm not complacent. My hope is that Beane and McDermott are "outliers."

 

We're gonna find out quite a bit this season.

 

I agree.  I don't think 2020 is anything like a make-or-break season, and if the Bills don't knock it out of the park in 2020, I don't think that means that McBeane can't do it.   It just means they didn't do it in 2020.   BUT - 2020 is the first season when they COULD start knocking it out of the park.  I agree that whether they do will tell us a lot about them.  

[Shaw66]

3 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I'm fine with that; not looking for big names, just good players.  What I am hoping to see is guys like Star and Ford compete for their jobs and playing time, not just given a spot because McD "believes in them" or that he "is their biggest defender."  Guys like Murphy should get cut because they're just not good enough, rather than being kept around because they "have that DNA."

Well, Murphy may be different, because we know that McDermott values senior leadership.   I think McD's starting to get it from Hughes, so Murphy may be toast.   I thought the second half of the season he played pretty well.  

 

But McD has been clear forever about competition.   He and Beane work hard to create competition at every position - that's their mantra.   Morse is about the only offensive lineman I think is safe.   

 

As for Star, I get the sense that McDermott and Beane have a totally different view of his effectiveness than most of the fans.  They seem to be thrilled with what he's given them.   Still, I don't think he's safe.   No one's safe with McDermott.   And that's why I'm not worried about Daboll, either.   He's going to get the job done that McDermott wants, or he'll be gone.  

[Happy]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

That's your view.   

 

I am certain that other than a total implosion, like 5-11 and rebellion in the locker room, Beane and McDermott are locks for 2021.   Their plan is long-term, they've sold it to the Pegulas, and they won't be going anywhere in 2021.  

 

Remember, the Pegulas lived through Marrone and Rex, lived through an extraordinarily unhappy fan base, lived through the press storming their doors.   Then these two came, everything settled down, everyone seemed to be on track, and they went to the playoffs two seasons out of three.   They've seen chaos in Cleveland and other franchises.   They aren't going to be in a hurry to dump the guys who took them to peace and harmony and playoffs.  

 

I don't expect an implosion, I agree with you that McD and Beane will most likely be here in 2021.  What I do worry about is 9-7 or 10-6, leading to one and done year after year as being acceptable.  I don't blame the Pegula's for not liking the press storing their doors, but repeatedly losing the Wildcard round and being swept by the Patriots year after year will lead to a lot of questions and them having to defend McD and Beane.  I just don't want to see an extension before sometime in 2021; they still have too much to prove.

 

Marrone was inherited, then quit.  Can't associate the Pegulas with him.  Rex was 100% their fault and seemed like a knee-jerk hire  - live and learn.  Neither means that mediocrity should be acceptable from current coaching staffs.

[Shaw66]

21 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I don't expect an implosion, I agree with you that McD and Beane will most likely be here in 2021.  What I do worry about is 9-7 or 10-6, leading to one and done year after year as being acceptable.  I don't blame the Pegula's for not liking the press storing their doors, but repeatedly losing the Wildcard round and being swept by the Patriots year after year will lead to a lot of questions and them having to defend McD and Beane.  I just don't want to see an extension before sometime in 2021; they still have too much to prove.

 

Marrone was inherited, then quit.  Can't associate the Pegulas with him.  Rex was 100% their fault and seemed like a knee-jerk hire  - live and learn.  Neither means that mediocrity should be acceptable from current coaching staffs.

If they lose the wildcard in 2020, it won't be "year after year," it will be two years.   (2017 was an accident.)

 

I wasn't blaming the Pegulas for Marrone.  I was pointing out their lives as NFL owners prior to the arrival of McBeane were tumultuous.   They inherited a coach who didn't want to be there, then they hired the wrong guy.   My point was after you'd lived through that, as an owner you value the peace and quiet and even relative success you're having.  

 

Having said that, I think your timing on an extension is correct.  

[Billl]

4 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

If drafting smart and making good FA acquisitions is an outlier, then I guess they are an outlier.  All you are doing is lowering the bar for all other teams, including the Bills.

 

You could be right regarding Bosa and Samuel.  But why stop there; how about Kittle, Mostert, and Juszczyk?  All big contributors on offense.  How about a strong offensive line?  Without that, no way Garappolo does anything.  The point is they made a complete overhaul of Chip Kelly's disaster in a two year timeframe.  It is possible to get to the SB within three years...outlier or not.

How do you completely disregard the most important part of my statement without missing a beat?  It’s a lot easier to make great draft picks when you’re drafting second overall than when you’re in the twenties.  SF essentially tanked in what was supposed to be the first year of their window.  Shanahan didn’t get killed over it because he could point to the JG injury.  

 

As a result, they got to draft Bosa. That wasn’t a brilliant pick.  It was a complete no brainer that most competent franchises never get to make because competent franchises don’t typically draft second overall.  That’s the very definition of an outlier.  Nobody was pointing to SF as a model franchise 9 months ago.  People were pointing at the Rams.  How did that work out?

 

 

[Happy]

49 minutes ago, Billl said:

How do you completely disregard the most important part of my statement without missing a beat?  It’s a lot easier to make great draft picks when you’re drafting second overall than when you’re in the twenties.  SF essentially tanked in what was supposed to be the first year of their window.  Shanahan didn’t get killed over it because he could point to the JG injury.  

 

As a result, they got to draft Bosa. That wasn’t a brilliant pick.  It was a complete no brainer that most competent franchises never get to make because competent franchises don’t typically draft second overall.  That’s the very definition of an outlier.  Nobody was pointing to SF as a model franchise 9 months ago.  People were pointing at the Rams.  How did that work out?

 

 

 

I must have missed the important part of your statement, or failed to see what was important about it.

 

SF got to draft Nick Bosa in 2017 thanks to Chip Kelly, who in 2016, got them a 2-14 record which no doubt did help in the next draft.  The 2017 season was the first for Lynch/Shanahan, where they went 6-10; hardly a tank and Garappolo wasn't on the team.  He was picked acquired in 2018, where he spent the year injured and they went 4-12.  Having him helped, but I think Lynch was able to upgrade enough remaining holes to get them to a good place in 2019.  Garappolo is not a superstar and will not win without a good cast around him, which Lynch supplied.

 

Looks like Bill Belichick was the first one who saw the Rams as straw men; I'm sure there were others who saw after him, but those were in the minority.  Anyway, most see it now.

[Billl]

2 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I must have missed the important part of your statement, or failed to see what was important about it.

 

SF got to draft Nick Bosa in 2017 thanks to Chip Kelly, who in 2016, got them a 2-14 record which no doubt did help in the next draft.  The 2017 season was the first for Lynch/Shanahan, where they went 6-10; hardly a tank and Garappolo wasn't on the team.  He was picked acquired in 2018, where he spent the year injured and they went 4-12.  Having him helped, but I think Lynch was able to upgrade enough remaining holes to get them to a good place in 2019.  Garappolo is not a superstar and will not win without a good cast around him, which Lynch supplied.

 

Looks like Bill Belichick was the first one who saw the Rams as straw men; I'm sure there were others who saw after him, but those were in the minority.  Anyway, most see it now.

You’ve given me a lot to think about with this post.