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Free Agency News and Updates - around the league

Hapless Bills Fan

Take the Covid19 discussion to one of the several appropriate threads dedicated to it.

I'm about to spend some time I could put to better use cleaning up the thread.

If you can't restrain yourself I will restrain you.

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33 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

Suckitude is a relative value.  Based on where he was picked, he sucks.  The fault of where he was drafted isn't his.  Much of what has transpired since, is his fault.  He took a prove it deal for a reason as he has much to prove.  Does he have value? Yes.  Is his value as over inflated as it was?  Not any longer.  Maybe a one year deal will light his fire.  Time will tell.  

I am willing to take a $9million prove it deal. I actually do suck, so maybe I will take less. Guys who actually need to prove it are taking $1-2.5million deals. Sammy does not suck. Draft positioning plays no bearing on a players on-field value. Is he a top 5 WR as we had expected/hoped for? Nope. Is he a top end WR2? Absolutely.

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2 hours ago, MiltonWaddams said:

Draft positioning plays no bearing on a players on-field value.

Then how do we determine a GM's worth? 

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55 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

Then how do we determine a GM's worth? 

Valid point. Which GM is better- the one who hits on rounds 4-7 and gets all starters out of them but misses on rounds 1-3 or the GM that hits on rounds 1-3 but 4-7 bust out?

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31 minutes ago, MrSarcasm said:

Valid point. Which GM is better- the one who hits on rounds 4-7 and gets all starters out of them but misses on rounds 1-3 or the GM that hits on rounds 1-3 but 4-7 bust out?

Hit on 1-3 > hitting on 4-7.  I know it's just a piece of the puzzle, but Whaley's inability to draft a solid QB and then risking much on a WR when he had no viable QB aren't helping him find a job.

 

1-3 is money, 4-7 is gravy.  

 

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3 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

Hit on 1-3 > hitting on 4-7.  I know it's just a piece of the puzzle, but Whaley's inability to draft a solid QB and then risking much on a WR when he had no viable QB aren't helping him find a job.

 

1-3 is money, 4-7 is gravy.  

 

I get it, but, if you get 4 viable starters (4-7) or 3 starters (1-3) wouldn't it be safe to say the GM that hit on 4-7 did better, 4>3?

 

On the flip side isn't the GM that hits on the expensive picks,1-3, better? I'M SO CONFUSED!

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8 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

Suckitude is a relative value.  Based on where he was picked, he sucks.  The fault of where he was drafted isn't his.  Much of what has transpired since, is his fault.  He took a prove it deal for a reason as he has much to prove.  Does he have value? Yes.  Is his value as over inflated as it was?  Not any longer.  Maybe a one year deal will light his fire.  Time will tell.  

Are you trying to say that a $9 million guaranteed contract is a " prove it" contract? He is still being paid well and btw he is on a team that a small chance at super bowl next year. Is this what you say about all the guys who take below market to go to the Pat's*?

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6 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

Then how do we determine a GM's worth? 

I’m pretty certain that the topic was based on the quality of player and you described Sammy as sucking. If you are diverting attention from that, you failed. Judging a player by a GM’s failure is a ridiculous concept. If a crap parent raises a good kid, we don’t consider that kid as crap. The same thing applies to the GM

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6 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

Hit on 1-3 > hitting on 4-7.  I know it's just a piece of the puzzle, but Whaley's inability to draft a solid QB and then risking much on a WR when he had no viable QB aren't helping him find a job.

 

1-3 is money, 4-7 is gravy.  

 

Of course hitting on 1 through 3 is wanted.

Just want to point out that when you hit on those late round picks you are getting players on EXTREMELY cap friendly contracts.....for a number of years.

 

Lets say for instance that Darryl Johnson and Tommy Sweeney end up being solid contributers to the team (they both showed flashes) they are basically working for peanuts

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6 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Of course hitting on 1 through 3 is wanted.

Just want to point out that when you hit on those late round picks you are getting players on EXTREMELY cap friendly contracts.....for a number of years.

 

Lets say for instance that Darryl Johnson and Tommy Sweeney end up being solid contributers to the team (they both showed flashes) they are basically working for peanuts

True, but the question was about judging a GM.  If Allen, Edmunds, Harry, Oliver, Ford, Singletary, Knox all bust do you think anyone will be saying "but, Beane HAS done a great job, look at Johnson and Sweeney!?"

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9 hours ago, MiltonWaddams said:

I’m pretty certain that the topic was based on the quality of player and you described Sammy as sucking. If you are diverting attention from that, you failed. Judging a player by a GM’s failure is a ridiculous concept. If a crap parent raises a good kid, we don’t consider that kid as crap. The same thing applies to the GM

So, players shouldn't be judged based on their draft position and GMs shouldn't be judged based on their drafts.  Participation trophies for all.  Wonderful.

 

Watkins was drafted #4.  He has not come close to living up to that potential and based on draft position, he sucks.

Whaley moved up to draft him even though he didn't have a QB to get him the ball, he sucks.

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42 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

So, players shouldn't be judged based on their draft position and GMs shouldn't be judged based on their drafts.  Participation trophies for all.  Wonderful.

 

Watkins was drafted #4.  He has not come close to living up to that potential and based on draft position, he sucks.

Whaley moved up to draft him even though he didn't have a QB to get him the ball, he sucks.

You mean he sucks relative to his draft position?  Clearly he doesn’t suck if he’s getting 9 mil as @thebandit27 said. 

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53 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

You mean he sucks relative to his draft position?  Clearly he doesn’t suck if he’s getting 9 mil as @thebandit27 said. 

Yes.  Where he was drafted cannot be ignored. (IMO)

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3 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

Yes.  Where he was drafted cannot be ignored. (IMO)

So Sammy sucks?  Then Milano should be HoF because he was drafted in the 5th round?

 

I agree with your thoughts about the GM and the draft. But when I evaluate players in the league I don’t care where they were drafted.  
 

Your logic would have had us not make the Hughes trade (a 1st rounder not playing well) for Sheppard (a meh middle round pick).  You have to evaluate the player without mind of where he was drafted. 
 

and yes you evaluate the GM based on where they picked the player. 

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Just now, YattaOkasan said:

So Sammy sucks?  Then Milano should be HoF because he was drafted in the 5th round?

 

I agree with your thoughts about the GM and the draft. But when I evaluate players in the league I don’t care where they were drafted.  
 

Your logic would have had us not make the Hughes trade (a 1st rounder not playing well) for Sheppard (a meh middle round pick).  You have to evaluate the player without mind of where he was drafted. 
 

and yes you evaluate the GM based on where they picked the player. 

Matt Milano has outperformed his draft position, he is not a bust and is a very pleasant surprise.

Sammy has not outperformed his draft position by a very wide margin.  That makes him a draft bust.

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3 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

Matt Milano has outperformed his draft position, he is not a bust and is a very pleasant surprise.

Sammy has not outperformed his draft position by a very wide margin.  That makes him a draft bust.

Gotcha. I agree with him being a bust. But wouldn’t say he sucks. Thanks. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

Matt Milano has outperformed his draft position, he is not a bust and is a very pleasant surprise.

Sammy has not outperformed his draft position by a very wide margin.  That makes him a draft bust.

I don’t view that definition as a “bust”...to me a “bust” is when a player drafted fairly high doesn’t even manage to become a serviceable player- likely resulting in being cut, or out of the league in short order (ie Jamarcus Russel, EJ Manuel, Jonny Manzeil, JP Losman)....Sammy is not a bust imho, but rather a mediocre player...

Edited by JaCrispy
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No matter his draft position, Sammy's career would have taken a very different trajectory if he had started his career with a quarterback who could get him the ball.  Also, injuries were a problem early on.  He's a very good receiver, attitude problems and career path aside.

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2 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

I don’t view that definition as a “bust”...to me a “bust” is when a player drafted fairly high doesn’t even manage to become a serviceable player- likely resulting in being cut, or out of the league in short order (ie Jamarcus Russel, EJ Manuel, Jonny Manzeil, JP Losman)....Sammy is not a bust imho, but rather a mediocre player...

To each his own.  Based on his draft position he is, to me.

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Is there any news on OT LaAdrian Waddle? I’d like to sign him for depth and competition if he is healthy. 

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28 minutes ago, PIZ said:

Is there any news on OT LaAdrian Waddle? I’d like to sign him for depth and competition if he is healthy. 

 

Nothing that I have seen.  I did read an article somewhat back that a torn quad is hard for OL players to recover from.

Probably won't get any looks until he can visit teams and get checked/worked out.

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