JGMcD2 Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 4 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I would agree with your post 15-20 years ago. But it is a completely different nfl now. It has never been easier to be a qb. Much easier rules that allow for early qb success. More college concepts in then nfl. With the league now, you don’t need 5 years to see if a qb has it. It should be shown pretty early. and for as physically gifted as Allen is, and he is, it’s not like the nfl hasn’t seen guys like him before. It is extremely hard to physically dominate the NFL. Giannis entered the nba at 18 after playing in Greece. Trout started pro ball at 18. For as bad as some try to make Wyoming’s coaching staff, he had the same head coach as Carson Wentz did in college and was 22 years old when he started his pro career. allen has shown he is a NFL qb without a doubt. He also just had the same exact 2nd year as Mitch Tribusky. I think the issue that the Allen skeptics have is everything with him is projection. For all his physical talent, he never really dominated At Wyoming. He obviously has glimpses of that talent but it’s never been consistent. The Newton comparison, at this point, probably aren’t far to Cam. He was a much better qb with a bigger track record of dominance than Allen at similar points in their career. My fear as it’s always been is Allen will continue to tease us with jaw dropping ability but struggle with consistency. I hope I’m wrong but time will tell. I just hope we upgrade the offense enough so we can finally stop making excuses why it’s everyone’s fault but the qb. You’re right... so Trout and Antetokounmpo spent formative years under the guidance of high-end professional sports franchises. Meanwhile Allen spent those years with Wyoming in the Mountain West. There is a reason that MLB teams love to draft high school kids early... so they can develop them under their guidance. Same goes for how European Soccer operates with their academies... except for the fact they bring kids in when they’re 6. If college basketball and football weren’t such cash cows... things would be different. Josh needs to be given time to develop. The resources are not even close to the same... pure talent really only carry you so far. The instruction is extremely important. I simply won’t accept the fact that because fans are impatient or don’t understand player development that Josh isn’t and can’t become staring NFL QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 12 hours ago, BigBillsFan said: It's because one proceeds another. If you miss more passes you get less chances. That's why "normalized" YAC is a worthless stat. Advanced metrics is when people want to advance narratives. I could beat Larry Bird, Steph Curry, Michael Jordan, Dirk Novitzski, and 30 other NBA legend in a 3 point content. They get 1 shot each and I get 1,000. Since the Bills were 25th in the league in overall passing attempts, this is obviously not an appropriate analogy to what occurs when normalizing total YAC in this instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 8 hours ago, JGMcD2 said: If college basketball and football weren’t such cash cows... things would be different. Josh needs to be given time to develop. The resources are not even close to the same... pure talent really only carry you so far. The instruction is extremely important. I simply won’t accept the fact that because fans are impatient or don’t understand player development that Josh isn’t and can’t become staring NFL QB. Heheheh...well, “staring” is what he is right now at times - as in “staring down the WR”. Not always, not always, he does move safeties around with his eyes sometimes. Josh is a starting NFL QB. Moreover, he’s shown he’s an NFL QB who can do enough to win games with a good defense. The question is, can he take that a step and become an NFL QB who can generate enough offense to beat the best teams that our defense can’t totally clamp down? An upgrade on OL and offensive skill positions will help, but there are times when Josh seemed to have someone open who could have gotten us the yardage we needed at that moment, and he didn’t pull the trigger. What’s between his ears needs to upgrade. (I don’t think that’s uncommon with a 1st or 2nd year QB) I agree that given instruction, coaching, and development time Josh can very likely improve. The problem is that high potential guys with development needs are normally stuck on the roster’s back burner for a year or two. Even the Uber-talented Mahomes got a year on the bench. What did Rodgers get, 3? The problem is that in the current NFL paradigm, the combination of salary cap and high QB contracts makes it very difficult for teams to give a guy time to develop - in 4 years they have to decide pay him the big bucks or move along. Once they pay him the big bucks, it’s tough to keep the talent level high around him. NE is an exception because for years Brady has taken less than the going rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBillsFan Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Since the Bills were 25th in the league in overall passing attempts, this is obviously not an appropriate analogy to what occurs when normalizing total YAC in this instance. We don't know if a projection is true unless the variables are the same, which in football that never happens. Even the best QBs have great games then stinkers the next. The only thing you can work off of is the actual numbers. QBs that have more touchdowns get less YAC on a throw because it's in the endzone. If you miss more passes you get less chances to make more in the future. If you get more 1st downs you get more chances to pass, if you miss more passes you get less chances hence the 25th overall passing attempts. You can't use projections for a sport that's impossible. But again we're getting past the point I was making and you were trying to argue which is too much can be read in anecdote. You said I should "dunno watch the game". I sat down for lunch and watched the 1st 90 seconds of each "all the throws". Granted most are from 2018 and I purposefully excluded pressure on him. Well I don't think I saw green and another could see blue, even in his 2019 game that I pointed out he wasn't on point, even remotely. Tell me where I'm wrong on actual evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB48 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 On 2/26/2020 at 8:16 AM, The Jokeman said: I hate to say it but teaching a quick release is almost impossible as that has to deal with changing how quickly a QB can read a defense or gain confidence in throwing to a spot vs a player. Sadly I think Josh never learned the skill of throwing a receiver open in part because with his great arm he can get it there so quick he doesn't have to. So he might never learn this skill but hopefully he can play more like he did against Dallas than say against Houston to play to his best. I agree with you. A quick release can't be taught - and - accuracy can't be taught. It's just a natural ability that you have or don't have. Wouldn't Tom Brady teach it to every aspiring kid QB in the world?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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