Our #1 need Is on a rebuilding Carolina Panthers team.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

3 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

We didn’t have Beane. None of those other drafts matter to this one.

That's not the point. Why spend a 1st on a WR if you can trade for one that's proven and young?

 

Now if you want to tell me that the draft is deep we don't need to spend a 1st on a WR then I understand. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

6 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

In some Drafts you may be right, but between a couple very good FAs scheduled to hit the market and this being maybe the deepest WR Draft we've seen in 20 years or more, *this* year is NOT the year you trade a 1st Round pick for a WR. You utilize it's depth, take another player in the 1st Round that meets value and keep your assets. JMO

Last year was one of the deepest WR drafts the last 20 years. Problem is it was called a weak WR draft before the draft. You never know with the draft. It's deep on paper. 

 

We draft in the low 20s. Some team hurting on cap or hitting the rebuild button may look at this WR draft and decide to start over instead of paying the ones they have. We could take advantage of that. Our window is closing in terms of having Allen and other players at bargain prices. We want to surround Allen with players right now. If we can trade for a top young WR we should make the deal as long as it's not multiple top assets.

[atlbillsfan1975]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

That's not the point. Why spend a 1st on a WR if you can trade for one that's proven and young?

 

Now if you want to tell me that the draft is deep we don't need to spend a 1st on a WR then I understand. 

It does matter. I think Beane will be able to pick a good one Or two somewhere In the draft. Let’s not give up a pick and then have to negotiate a contract when we don’t have too. 

[BigBuff423]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Last year was one of the deepest WR drafts the last 20 years. Problem is it was called a weak WR draft before the draft. You never know with the draft. It's deep on paper. 

 

We draft in the low 20s. Some team hurting on cap or hitting the rebuild button may look at this WR draft and decide to start over instead of paying the ones they have. We could take advantage of that. Our window is closing in terms of having Allen and other players at bargain prices. We want to surround Allen with players right now. If we can trade for a top young WR we should make the deal as long as it's not multiple top assets.

 

I'll respectfully disagree to all points, but specifically where "last year was one of the deepest WR drafts the last 20 years", because I don't claim to be an expert, but I don't recall anyone making that determination. 2014 was supposed to a phenomenal year for WRs and I think it was a good one and most of the Draft "experts" are claiming this one is even better. Furthermore, a good GM and his team can find great talent anywhere in the Draft and there are just too many examples to use for this.

 

As for WR, there is something to be said for youth on the team that develops in-house and with Smoke and Beasley, they have their Vets. I posted in another thread I'd like to see the Bills get a guy like Funchess because he will be reasonable, has the size and talent to turn into a great boundary WR especially if he isn't getting all of the attention but he has to stay healthy. I'd also like them to get Dorsett for his slot speed in 4 WR sets. However, that STILL wouldn't preclude me (if I were GM and we're all thankful I'm not) from taking a very good to great WR in the 2nd round where in many years that same WR would be Drafted in the top half of the 1st. 

 

Also, there is no reason to panic regarding "window is closing" because Allen and others are on cheaper / Rookie contracts. Again, great GMs know how to manage the Cap. Look at New Orleans who've had Brees for all these years and paid a metric ton of cash and yet every year, they find ways to Draft and keep their best players and get a FA here or there. Pittsburgh is another example, Baltimore another, and the list goes on. If you're doing it right, you pay the guys you've Drafted, you don't become Daddy Warbucks throwing money at FAs....and IMHO, Beane et. al. have done an incredible job of building this team thus far - so I have the fullest of confidence in how they manage it moving forward. It's a sublime feeling to know that while I don't always understand their decisions, I've for sure come to trust them. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Just now, atlbillsfan1975 said:

It does matter. I think Beane will be able to pick a good one Or two somewhere In the draft. Let’s not give up a pick and then have to negotiate a contract when we don’t have too. 

I understand what you're saying but hitting the right player is still a difficult task. Even if you hit it might take a couple years for him to impact. If you can get DJ Moore you do it IMO. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

9 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

I'll respectfully disagree to all points, but specifically where "last year was one of the deepest WR drafts the last 20 years", because I don't claim to be an expert, but I don't recall anyone making that determination. 2014 was supposed to a phenomenal year for WRs and I think it was a good one and most of the Draft "experts" are claiming this one is even better. Furthermore, a good GM and his team can find great talent anywhere in the Draft and there are just too many examples to use for this.

 

As for WR, there is something to be said for youth on the team that develops in-house and with Smoke and Beasley, they have their Vets. I posted in another thread I'd like to see the Bills get a guy like Funchess because he will be reasonable, has the size and talent to turn into a great boundary WR especially if he isn't getting all of the attention but he has to stay healthy. I'd also like them to get Dorsett for his slot speed in 4 WR sets. However, that STILL wouldn't preclude me (if I were GM and we're all thankful I'm not) from taking a very good to great WR in the 2nd round where in many years that same WR would be Drafted in the top half of the 1st. 

 

Also, there is no reason to panic regarding "window is closing" because Allen and others are on cheaper / Rookie contracts. Again, great GMs know how to manage the Cap. Look at New Orleans who've had Brees for all these years and paid a metric ton of cash and yet every year, they find ways to Draft and keep their best players and get a FA here or there. Pittsburgh is another example, Baltimore another, and the list goes on. If you're doing it right, you pay the guys you've Drafted, you don't become Daddy Warbucks throwing money at FAs....and IMHO, Beane et. al. have done an incredible job of building this team thus far - so I have the fullest of confidence in how they manage it moving forward. It's a sublime feeling to know that while I don't always understand their decisions, I've for sure come to trust them. 

In regards to last years WR class the point I was making is the draft is a crap shoot no matter what experts predict. Last years class wasn't supposed to be good but ended up with 5-6 rookies over 700 yards which was right up there with 2014.

 

They don't have to chase a WR in the trade market or free agency but I think the 22nd pick for a top WR only 22 years old is a smart move.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Buffalo_Stampede

[atlbillsfan1975]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I understand what you're saying but hitting the right player is still a difficult task. Even if you hit it might take a couple years for him to impact. If you can get DJ Moore you do it IMO. 

I do agree  wide receiver is a tougher position to project than some others. I am not opposed to spending big on a FA vet. The pick and the spend get me caught up.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

I do agree  wide receiver is a tougher position to project than some others. I am not opposed to spending big on a FA vet. The pick and the spend get me caught up.

2 positions i'de rather trade for and spend cap on are WR's and pass rushers. Very hard to project these players to the NFL. 

Edited February 5, 2020 by Buffalo_Stampede

[thebandit27]

Why on earth would Hurney trade away a WR1 (that he himself drafted) on a cheap contract when he’s got a young, offensive-minded HC?

 

That kind of makes no sense.

[atlbillsfan1975]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

2 positions i'de rather trade for and spend cap on are WR's and pass rushers. Very hard to project these players to the NFL. 

I agree. I’d rather try to find another one in FA like AJ Green. He could be a great option if he would take a 1-2 year deal with a $10-12 mil per year. Bills could draft a WR in the second or later to develop for a year or two.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

17 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Why on earth would Hurney trade away a WR1 (that he himself drafted) on a cheap contract when he’s got a young, offensive-minded HC?

 

That kind of makes no sense.

He won't. I'm a little confused why so many fans are against trading for DJ Moore though and would rather draft Tee Higgins.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Seoulofstone]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

He won't. I'm a little confused why so many fans are against trading for DJ Moore though and would rather draft Tee Higgins.

 

  Right. It would make no sense to trade Moore. However I can give you some reasons why I wouldn't want Buffalo to trade for him. He has had some problems with fumbles which have been extremely costly. In addition, he doesn't score many touchdowns and isn't a red zone threat. His route tree is limited and he's more of a YAC guy who stretches the field. Considering the QB situation at Carolina he did well this year, but I'm not sold on him yet.

[BarleyNY]

37 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Why on earth would Hurney trade away a WR1 (that he himself drafted) on a cheap contract when he’s got a young, offensive-minded HC?

 

That kind of makes no sense.

I agree.  I have no problem trading high picks for young, proven talent.  But there’s almost no way Carolina would want to trade him.  The theoretical caveats to that - unreported serious injury, major locker room problems, looming suspension - would make me not want him. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 hours ago, Conlan93 said:

Brandon Beane is not afraid to trade as we all know. Moving up in drafts acquiring picks through non fitted players ect. Last season after the attempted Antonio Brown trade, i wouldnt put it past him to take advantage of teams with a less fortunate situations then what our Bills have this upcoming season. The aquistion of a prime young talented #1 reciever in D.J Moore may be worth the price of admission for this offense and Josh. Sending this years 1st and a mid rd pick to a team in a full on rebuild may be intriguing to think about.

 

Brandon Beane is not afraid to trade, but I don't see him giving up 2 draft picks including a first for just about anyone.  They would have to be all-world.  Bosa or Mack class "immediate difference maker" types.

 

I don't see DJ Moore as anywhere near that class of player on offense.

[blacklabel]

Moore, along with McCaffrey, is one of their young building block type of players. He's not going anywhere. 

[Conlan93]

1 hour ago, Seoulofstone said:

 

  Right. It would make no sense to trade Moore. However I can give you some reasons why I wouldn't want Buffalo to trade for him. He has had some problems with fumbles which have been extremely costly. In addition, he doesn't score many touchdowns and isn't a red zone threat. His route tree is limited and he's more of a YAC guy who stretches the field. Considering the QB situation at Carolina he did well this year, but I'm not sold on him yet.

He dosent score many Tds because of the presence of McCaffrey and we need a yac guy with size.

[Conlan93]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Brandon Beane is not afraid to trade, but I don't see him giving up 2 draft picks including a first for just about anyone.  They would have to be all-world.  Bosa or Mack class "immediate difference maker" types.

 

I don't see DJ Moore as anywhere near that class of player on offense.

Whats the difference in trading two picks to move up in the draft to get zay jones in 17 dawkins in 17 ford in 19. We have given up 6 picks for 3 players one of them is not even on the team. DJ Moore is a need and a diffrence maker. The QB situation compared to his personal statistics can only improve with a stable QB situation. Im pulling the trigger if the opportunity presented itself. He is the same age as a senior coming out of collage and has 2 years in a pro system have the first rd pick! because that players value for a pick at 22 is great value. And is definitely not a bandage on a glaring hole on your squad

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Conlan93 said:

Whats the difference in trading two picks to move up in the draft to get zay jones in 17 dawkins in 17 ford in 19. We have given up 6 picks for 3 players one of them is not even on the team. DJ Moore is a need and a diffrence maker. The QB situation compared to his personal statistics can only improve with a stable QB situation. Im pulling the trigger if the opportunity presented itself. He is the same age as a senior coming out of collage and has 2 years in a pro system have the first rd pick! because that players value for a pick at 22 is great value. And is definitely not a bandage on a glaring hole on your squad

 

As you point out, the Bills trade-ups for Jones and Dawkins took place in 2017.  Beane was not the GM for that draft.  So one difference there.

For Ford, we swapped 2nd round picks and added a 5th round pick to move up.   We didn't trade away our 2nd round pick outright.   Those are the sort of swaps Beane will make readily - pick swaps where he gives up a late-round pick.

 

Here is a list of Beane's 16 trades involving draft picks. (Blitz, may be paywall, free trial)  Beane has never traded a pick higher than a 3rd round pick for a player; he has acquired a 1st round pick as part of a player trade, and he has made trades involving a swap of 1st round picks.

 

I Get It, You would pull the trigger.  The question is would Beane?

 

I'm just telling you I don't see Beane making a trade involving outright giving a 1st round pick unless the player in question is regarded as a true game-changer - a DPOY/OPOY type player, a QB, the "QB of the defense", an elite pass rusher, a Michael Thomas or a player with clear Michael Thomas potential.

 

I don't think that's an appropriate description for DJ Moore at this point. 

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

Why would Carolina trade a 2nd year wr who got 1,000 yards playing mostly with Kyle Allen and a broken down Newton?

[Alphadawg7]

There is ONLY ONE player on the Panthers worth a first round pick and more and that guy isn’t going anywhere.  McCaffrey.  
 

DJ Moore is a good young player, but come on, trade that much in a draft class loaded at WR?  Um no