Mr. WEO Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 7 minutes ago, BigBillsFan said: Allen currently is poor, in bottom 1/3rd of all QBs. Sorry that’s just a truth. He isn’t hanging on by a string if we make the playoffs next year as that will buy him 1 more year, but if we have our own Rams year of 2019 with a tough schedule and he’s still in the bottom 1/3rd no QB is safe with 3 years in a row. No GM or HC is going to run the risk of 4 years of a QB in the bottom 33%. The playoffs are like a band-aid over the problem, but eventually if the band-aid isn’t there everyone will see the wound. If Allen was a 3rd rounder or lower we would already acknowledge this. I should know, I remember the Losman debates. In 2019: Bottom 1/3 in yards? no Bottom 1/3 in TD passes? no Bottom 1/3 in wins? no Bottom 1/3 in rushing yards for QB? no Bottom 1/3 for rushing TD for QB? no and you "should know"....because you go all the way back to the Losman debates! Respect, old timer... 47 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: More Alex Smith: https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/02/02/former-49ers-quarterback-alex-smith-reveals-why-hes-lucky-to-be-alive/ https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/ron-rivera-doesnt-want-forget-alex-smith-potential-redskins-qb-competition As discussed in previous threads, this is something that is not subject to proof - we don't get a "do over" or the chance to put Mahomes into a different situation. Therefore, it's essentially at the level of religious belief or dogma In his 2 years as full time starter in college, over 25 games he threw for almost 10,000 yards and 77 TDs...plus 741 rushing yards and 22 rushing TDs! So this isn't exactly a "does God exist" question..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 4, 2020 Author Share Posted February 4, 2020 1 hour ago, BigBillsFan said: Allen currently is poor, in bottom 1/3rd of all QBs. Sorry that’s just a truth. He isn’t hanging on by a string if we make the playoffs next year as that will buy him 1 more year, but if we have our own Rams year of 2019 with a tough schedule and he’s still in the bottom 1/3rd no QB is safe with 3 years in a row. No GM or HC is going to run the risk of 4 years of a QB in the bottom 33%. The playoffs are like a band-aid over the problem, but eventually if the band-aid isn’t there everyone will see the wound. If Allen was a 3rd rounder or lower we would already acknowledge this. I should know, I remember the Losman debates. Right on schedule! 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBillsFan Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: In 2019: Bottom 1/3 in yards? no Bottom 1/3 in TD passes? no Bottom 1/3 in wins? no Bottom 1/3 in rushing yards for QB? no Bottom 1/3 for rushing TD for QB? no and you "should know"....because you go all the way back to the Losman debates! FACTS 2019 Last in YPG Last in completion % Last in TDs thrown for 16 starts Bottom 10% in fumbles Bottom 33% in QB rating Bottom 33% in QBR Bottom 33% in YPA Edited February 4, 2020 by BigBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 3 hours ago, BringBackOrton said: Man, if only there was a journeyman professional QB that Mahomes could have learned from on the Bills. We had Peterman, what more could you want! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 4, 2020 Author Share Posted February 4, 2020 1 hour ago, BringBackOrton said: Oh really? I heard they were the same guys like basically Tyrod’s whole stint here. I can't control how you flap your ears Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: More Alex Smith: https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/02/02/former-49ers-quarterback-alex-smith-reveals-why-hes-lucky-to-be-alive/ https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/ron-rivera-doesnt-want-forget-alex-smith-potential-redskins-qb-competition As discussed in previous threads, this is something that is not subject to proof - we don't get a "do over" or the chance to put Mahomes into a different situation. Therefore, it's essentially at the level of religious belief or dogma That poster reminds me of someone who says something which such conviction people will believe it. Like you stated this is an opinion. I’m not really sure why posters like that come here, they believe their opinion is fact and won’t listen to anyone else’s opinion, even when facts are supplied. But it takes all kinds to make the world go round! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SloanBillsFan Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/01/29/before-patrick-mahomes-became-superstar-he-followed-blueprint-set-by-alex-smith/ “Alex Smith was great for Patrick,” Chiefs Coach Andy Reid said. “Alex Smith is a great person and a great player. I wish I would have had him when he was young. I got him when he was a little bit older.” “I attribute a lot of my early success to Alex, the way he was able to be a pro every single day and the way he was able to go about not only being a great football player but a great human being,” Mahomes said. “It showed me a ton. I learned a lot about how to read coverages and blitzes from him. He gave me a blueprint of how to go about a week and preparing yourself. It showed me how to have success at an early point in my career that I don’t think I would have gotten anywhere else.” I'm really glad they gave some well-deserved credit to Alex Smith for his selfless contributions to Mahomes's development. Mahomes is one of those rare talents but I don't feel he would have come on so strong without some guidance and time spent watching the starter for a year. Smith could have been a d!ck since he knew Mahomes was his replacement but he chose to help the kid out without any reservations. Pretty rare IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 4, 2020 Author Share Posted February 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: In his 2 years as full time starter in college, over 25 games he threw for almost 10,000 yards and 77 TDs...plus 741 rushing yards and 22 rushing TDs! So this isn't exactly a "does God exist" question..... The statement to which I was responding was " Even without Alex Smith Mahomes would be the exact guy he is now. " Mahomes had a great college career. He was also the QB of an "Air Raid" offense, an offense whose QBs have had a poor track record transitioning to the pros. There was criticism of his footwork and mechanics. He was passed over 9x including by a team who drafted a QB #2 that year and by 6 other teams drafting in the top 9 who made QB changes in 2018 or 2019 (drafting #1-#9). Because Alex Smith was playing at a very high level and had taken the team to the playoffs the previous year (and again 2017), Mahomes had the opportunity to sit behind an established starter for 15 games, learn the very same pro offense he would be asked to run, learn how to read a pro defense and react to a blitz, work on any QB improvement checklist the Chiefs may have given him for mechanics, footwork etc. and learn how to prepare - all entirely free of any external pressure or attention or criticism... To say that Mahomes would have come to the Chiefs off his air raid offense and been exactly the same player without the above opportunities is, indeed, a dogmatic assertion. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fiend Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, BuffalothruMyVeins said: Would it be crazy to maybe see if Smith is available to come in and compete for backup QB with Barkley? I know he had that bad injury, and I believe he has a big contract number with Washington, but in the chance that they cut him... If we were to bring him in and he were the backup, I think we should get a 3rd QB, bia the draft or whatever, as I'm not thinking Smith would be a great option to actually play more than a few quarters, he would be more of a guy to help Josh Monday-Saturday. I am not sure Smith would take a backup job after doing well with the 49ers, Chiefs, and Redskins. And what's wrong with Davis Webb? 3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/01/29/before-patrick-mahomes-became-superstar-he-followed-blueprint-set-by-alex-smith/ “Alex Smith was great for Patrick,” Chiefs Coach Andy Reid said. “Alex Smith is a great person and a great player. I wish I would have had him when he was young. I got him when he was a little bit older.” “I attribute a lot of my early success to Alex, the way he was able to be a pro every single day and the way he was able to go about not only being a great football player but a great human being,” Mahomes said. “It showed me a ton. I learned a lot about how to read coverages and blitzes from him. He gave me a blueprint of how to go about a week and preparing yourself. It showed me how to have success at an early point in my career that I don’t think I would have gotten anywhere else.” Alex Smith is the consummate pro. I had the pleasure of watching him lead the 49ers here to the playoffs before Colin Kaepernick came along. He did nothing to lose the starting job, except get injured. And he did great with the Chiefs. Also, impressive that you read the Post. Edited February 4, 2020 by The Fiend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fiend Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 3 hours ago, njbuff said: Tyrod was so bad in 2017 that the Bills thrust Nathan Peterman out there. Which means a talented kid like Mahomes would have been starting the 3rd or 4th week of the season when he wasn't ready and would have gotten killed on the Bills 2017 offense. Mahomes would have been playing in 2017 and his career would be hanging on by a thread right now. No Kelce's, no Hill's, no Hunts (when Mahomes first started) on that 2017 Bills team. But he would have had Watkins and McCoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 4, 2020 Author Share Posted February 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, The Fiend said: I am not sure Smith would take a backup job after doing well with the 49ers, Chiefs, and Redskins. Smith is currently under contract to the Redskins as far as I know. https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/ron-rivera-doesnt-want-forget-alex-smith-potential-redskins-qb-competition Rivera has expressed some support for Smith: "I also don’t want to forget Alex Smith," Rivera told Team 980 on a potential quarterback competition. "Here’s a guy that’s doing everything he can to come back, and if Alex can come back and be the player that he was we have a good situation, we have competition at that position." While Rivera has complimented Haskins' abilities, he has publicly said ways he would like Haskins to improve. Whether this is Rivera's way of making Haskins earn the job or he truly believes that Smith can come back and be the same quarterback he once was, Rivera has promised nothing to the rising second-year signal-caller. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fiend Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Smith is currently under contract to the Redskins as far as I know. https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/ron-rivera-doesnt-want-forget-alex-smith-potential-redskins-qb-competition Rivera has expressed some support for Smith: "I also don’t want to forget Alex Smith," Rivera told Team 980 on a potential quarterback competition. "Here’s a guy that’s doing everything he can to come back, and if Alex can come back and be the player that he was we have a good situation, we have competition at that position." While Rivera has complimented Haskins' abilities, he has publicly said ways he would like Haskins to improve. Whether this is Rivera's way of making Haskins earn the job or he truly believes that Smith can come back and be the same quarterback he once was, Rivera has promised nothing to the rising second-year signal-caller. I realize that; I was just addressing the other poster's scenario where he would come here. I hope he does well there, if he wants to come back. Edited February 4, 2020 by The Fiend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 4, 2020 Author Share Posted February 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, The Fiend said: But he would have had Watkins and McCoy. ? Watkins was traded in early August 2017 - after the 1st preseason game as I recall. Trade was for a 1 year rental of EJ Gaines and 2nd round pick. Would they have made the same trade if they'd drafted a QB that spring, don't know. But don't know that they wouldn't have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 3 hours ago, njbuff said: Tyrod was so bad in 2017 that the Bills thrust Nathan Peterman out there. Which means a talented kid like Mahomes would have been starting the 3rd or 4th week of the season when he wasn't ready and would have gotten killed on the Bills 2017 offense. Mahomes would have been playing in 2017 and his career would be hanging on by a thread right now. No Kelce's, no Hill's, no Hunts (when Mahomes first started) on that 2017 Bills team. The Bills came out of that draft with Nathan Peterman. If only he had more weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fiend Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: ? Watkins was traded in early August 2017 - after the 1st preseason game as I recall. Trade was for a 1 year rental of EJ Gaines and 2nd round pick. Would they have made the same trade if they'd drafted a QB that spring, don't know. But don't know that they wouldn't have. I think if they had Mahomes, there would be no urgency to acquire extra picks to be able to trade up for a QB the next year. McD would've wanted Watkins around as a weapon for Mahomes, although he did have a questionable history here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 4, 2020 Author Share Posted February 4, 2020 9 minutes ago, The Fiend said: I think if they had Mahomes, there would be no urgency to acquire extra picks to be able to trade up for a QB the next year. McD would've wanted Watkins around as a weapon for Mahomes, although he did have a questionable history here. No doubt, the projected need to trade up for QB was one driver for accumulating picks. But it has to be considered that the Bills had just drafted a WR with a high 2nd round draft pick, and had great hopes. Meanwhile McDermott was seeking to shore up his defense. Then there is his "get the right players on the bus and the wrong players off the bus". Watkins had a track record of airing his beef in public ("I need 10 targets a game"), and he has since conceded that he was not a team-focused player during his time in Buffalo. So I would have rate the thought that they'd keep Watkins and not go for Gaines and the pick as "unclear" or "unproven" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Reid and Mahomes are both class acts. It does not surprise me for a second that they would give Smith the credit he’s due. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 1 hour ago, BigBillsFan said: FACTS 2019 Last in YPG Last in completion % Last in TDs thrown for 16 starts Bottom 10% in fumbles Bottom 33% in QB rating Bottom 33% in QBR Bottom 33% in YPA #9 in total TDs. (more than Brady, Brees, Cousins, Wentz, Goff, Ryan....) Tied for 1st in 4th Q comebacks. 10 wins (only 7 had more). But yeah.....that QBR and YPA. 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: The statement to which I was responding was " Even without Alex Smith Mahomes would be the exact guy he is now. " Mahomes had a great college career. He was also the QB of an "Air Raid" offense, an offense whose QBs have had a poor track record transitioning to the pros. There was criticism of his footwork and mechanics. He was passed over 9x including by a team who drafted a QB #2 that year and by 6 other teams drafting in the top 9 who made QB changes in 2018 or 2019 (drafting #1-#9). Because Alex Smith was playing at a very high level and had taken the team to the playoffs the previous year (and again 2017), Mahomes had the opportunity to sit behind an established starter for 15 games, learn the very same pro offense he would be asked to run, learn how to read a pro defense and react to a blitz, work on any QB improvement checklist the Chiefs may have given him for mechanics, footwork etc. and learn how to prepare - all entirely free of any external pressure or attention or criticism... To say that Mahomes would have come to the Chiefs off his air raid offense and been exactly the same player without the above opportunities is, indeed, a dogmatic assertion. As I said....credit Reid for seeing the obvious and picking Mahomes. I never understood the argument that "x amount of teams passed on him"---that's a testament to bad decision making. Footwork and Mechanics? They have served him well the past 2 years. In fact Reid took of advantage of his footwork and "mechanics". They are the foundation of Mahomes success, as it turns out. Reid himself would tell you that..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/01/29/before-patrick-mahomes-became-superstar-he-followed-blueprint-set-by-alex-smith/ “Alex Smith was great for Patrick,” Chiefs Coach Andy Reid said. “Alex Smith is a great person and a great player. I wish I would have had him when he was young. I got him when he was a little bit older.” “I attribute a lot of my early success to Alex, the way he was able to be a pro every single day and the way he was able to go about not only being a great football player but a great human being,” Mahomes said. “It showed me a ton. I learned a lot about how to read coverages and blitzes from him. He gave me a blueprint of how to go about a week and preparing yourself. It showed me how to have success at an early point in my career that I don’t think I would have gotten anywhere else.” Class. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 4 hours ago, BringBackOrton said: Man, if only there was a journeyman professional QB that Mahomes could have learned from on the Bills. Alex Smith has journeyed, but he's no journeyman. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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