Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 You want screen plays?! BBTT. (Bring Back Tyrod Taylor.) * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 11 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said: No clue. But I will say if seemed we sucked at setting them up and it made it even more irritating having to watch our top 5 defense get gashed by them routinely while wondering why in the world our offense couldn’t seem to crack the code. My feelings exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 11 hours ago, billsintaiwan said: I recall nearly every single screen we attempted being immediately diagnosed and snuffed out. Can think off maybe three or four that worked. I've submitted countless snuff screenplays. All rejected. Seems no one wants to see that stuff anymore... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALLEN1QB Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 McDermott said he wanted to insert a few screens on Sunday and Daboll went to Home Depot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rc2catch Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: There was a screen play in the Washington game that went for big yards That's kind of what I'm asking for, is any hard data on how often we've tried to run screens and what the outcomes were, because sometimes perceptions don't line up with what actually happened (eg some people feel we run RPO all the time but turns out it really wasn't that often) I sadly can’t find that info either. Would be useful info for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123719bwiqrb Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 10 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said: Singletary got something like 42 yards on one in the last six games. It is the only one I remember. That was a throwback screen, which worked really well but definitely close to being in the gimmick play column. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickleyjones Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Screens are not easy plays to execute. Once they are able to reliably run them, we will see more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123719bwiqrb Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 I think it is a reflection of the entire offensive unit. The line is a mess when it comes to "faking" a missed block. Letting DL thru in a way that they think they "beat" the OL is a talent. Sometimes the screen target (RB, TEs) is being covered man to man, and the RB tips his intentions too fast. The LB/DB gets to him and beats the OL before it gets set up. FOr the QB, Josh is not very good at drifting back while giving the impression of looking downfield. He typically bails (to the right if possible) and the DL are already looking at flow early in the play, which tip them to the screen faster. ANd yes, Josh can flip a ball gently, but sometimes he gets too excited and gets inaccurate/overpowering. The OL last year was mobile enough to get out in front of it. But as a unit, they need to have successful "complimentary" plays that make the DL believe that Josh is trying to stay in the pocket, so when they actually run a screen it's a surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billykay Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 4 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said: You want screen plays?! BBTT. (Bring Back Tyrod Taylor.) * Actually, we will see very good screen plays from Miami now that Chan Gailey is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Is it a lack of screen plays being called, or is it a lack of Allen checking down when it makes sense? I'm not saying it's one or the other ... I'm actually asking the question. I don't know how many times teams call screen plays as the first option vs. asking the QB to check down as a second option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 1, 2020 Author Share Posted February 1, 2020 9 minutes ago, billykay said: Actually, we will see very good screen plays from Miami now that Chan Gailey is there. Yes. If we don't get our Act together on Defense and learn to stop the screen, those Miami games are gonna be painful next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 17 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Sooooooo.....on several threads, a recurring theme has popped up: Where are the screen plays? Screen plays are a great solution to a number of football chess moves, including Blitz0. Our defense proved very susceptible to them in the 2nd NE game. [Edit: to clarify, these are intended as separate observations, not an implication we were susceptible due to playing Blitz0 on D] I've searched for data on # of screen plays the Bills ran overall and in each game, and I'm coming up blank. Some recall "a lot of screens" earlier in the season that didn't work, so Daboll phased them out. I found a Mark Gaughan TBN article which states that the Bills completed "only five screen plays to RBs in the first 7 games" and then one in the Redskins game....but that doesn't say how many they attempted Anyone got some data? I feel like a few definitely fell apart late season. Singletary is made for the screen game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 1, 2020 Author Share Posted February 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Gugny said: Is it a lack of screen plays being called, or is it a lack of Allen checking down when it makes sense? I'm not saying it's one or the other ... I'm actually asking the question. I don't know how many times teams call screen plays as the first option vs. asking the QB to check down as a second option. This might be a matter of diverging terminology, but to me, a checkdown is when the play is designed so that an eligible receiver (usually RB or TE) run a quick route at or behind the LOS so the QB can flip them the ball. Allen tends to underutilize this, but it's not a screen play (to me) A screen play that the QB checks into at the LOS would not be called a checkdown (to me) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: This might be a matter of diverging terminology, but to me, a checkdown is when the play is designed so that an eligible receiver (usually RB or TE) run a quick route at or behind the LOS so the QB can flip them the ball. Allen tends to underutilize this, but it's not a screen play (to me) A screen play that the QB checks into at the LOS would not be called a checkdown (to me) I am very likely wrong, but I always defined a checkdown as anytime the QB chooses to attempt a pass anywhere near the LOS if he feels other options downfield aren't open. But like I said ... very good chance that I am incorrect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 20 hours ago, Augie said: I got nothin’ but I look forward to some insight. This seemed like the right thing so many times, and it either didn’t happen or it didn’t work. How hard could this be to get right? yes and no. It gets a few guys coordinated on tasks they aren’t at their core always suited for. A couple big lineman running in space a back catching and all of them selling it it shouldn’t be insurmountable but kind of like man vs zone blocking some groups are just better suited for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 21 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said: No clue. But I will say if seemed we sucked at setting them up and it made it even more irritating having to watch our top 5 defense get gashed by them routinely while wondering why in the world our offense couldn’t seem to crack the code. There were a few successful ones later in the year, but I think their paucity of use had more to do with how teams played Allen. Even selling out blitz, defenses were aware and were coached to be diciplined on the edges and not to lose contain on Allen. Keep him in the pocket. That bit of hesitation from selling all out on rushing Allen fading back with the ball allowed more than a few savvy defensive linemen to sniff out the our oline and RB setting up screens and disrupt them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 12, 2020 Author Share Posted February 12, 2020 This article just out in The Buffalo News (pay, free trial available with signup) from Mark Vaughn: https://buffalonews.com/2020/02/12/buffalo-bills-screen-passes-ineffective-2019-analysis-nfl-devin-singletary-brian-daboll-2020/ Not a lot of data per game but some overall data on screen use: "Running back screens can be a good tactic to counter the blitz, but the Bills didn’t capitalize. They called seven RB screens when the defense rushed five or more men, but the plays totaled just 11 yards. Josh Allen twice had to throw the ball into the ground vs. the blitz because a defender read the screen and had it covered. Once, Singletary dropped the pass. Once, the pass was batted down. Quick screens to wide receivers weren’t much help, either. The Bills were 12 of 14 for 53 yards. Cole Beasley took one for 10 yards in Dallas. Isaiah McKenzie caught one for 24 vs. Baltimore. But those were the only receptions for more than 6 yards." Vaughn points out: "Screen passes to running backs take a high level of timing and execution among all involved – offensive linemen, backs and the quarterback. Maybe the fact the Bills had to incorporate four new starters into the offensive line was a factor" but also points out that the Bills haven't had a reliable screen game for some time: The screen game hasn’t been a Bills strength for a long time. On screens to running backs in 2018, the Bills were just 13 of 19 for 46 yards, and six of the completions went for negative yards. Only one screen went for more than 12 yards. In 2017, there was just one screen to a back that went for more than 10 yards. In 2016, there were none of more than 15 yards. In 2015, LeSean McCoy had some success, taking nine screens for 85 yards. Question remains whether there's a fundamental problem with Daboll's screen play design, or whether we just don't put in the rep count to execute as needed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Quick screens to wide receivers weren’t much help, either. The Bills were 12 of 14 for 53 yards. Cole Beasley took one for 10 yards in Dallas. Isaiah McKenzie caught one for 24 vs. Baltimore. But those were the only receptions for more than 6 yards." Without knowing the goal/to go situation for these passes, we can't really know how much help they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 (edited) On 1/31/2020 at 8:42 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said: Sooooooo.....on several threads, a recurring theme has popped up: Where are the screen plays? Screen plays are a great solution to a number of football chess moves, including Blitz0. Our defense proved very susceptible to them in the 2nd NE game. [Edit: to clarify, these are intended as separate observations, not an implication we were susceptible due to playing Blitz0 on D] I've searched for data on # of screen plays the Bills ran overall and in each game, and I'm coming up blank. Some recall "a lot of screens" earlier in the season that didn't work, so Daboll phased them out. I found a Mark Gaughan TBN article which states that the Bills completed "only five screen plays to RBs in the first 7 games" and then one in the Redskins game....but that doesn't say how many they attempted Anyone got some data? Bear in mind that Singletary missed basically 3 and half of the first seven games and that Yeldon fumbled on one of his few touches in the first game that Singletary was fully out (against Cincinnati). I don't think the coaching staff had much trust in Yeldon at all this past season, and he's an experienced receiver. Gore is a non-entity as a receiver, although he will catch the occasional dump-off when everyone else is covered. Edited February 12, 2020 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 12, 2020 Author Share Posted February 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Gugny said: Quick screens to wide receivers weren’t much help, either. The Bills were 12 of 14 for 53 yards. Cole Beasley took one for 10 yards in Dallas. Isaiah McKenzie caught one for 24 vs. Baltimore. But those were the only receptions for more than 6 yards." Without knowing the goal/to go situation for these passes, we can't really know how much help they were. That's true, but at the same time if two passes accounted for 34 of the 53 yards, we can say that the others were 10 of 12 for 19 yds or 1.6 yds/play The number of situations where that helps a team move the chains against pressure/blitzing is pretty limited. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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