DrDawkinstein Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 22 minutes ago, Augie said: And that was when the new stadium opened. I know the STADIUM is still there, because I’ve been there several times.......for soccer. AWESOME experience! Much more juice than a Falcons game. The Falcons are an afterthought in Atlanta. They got a little attention when they got to the Super Bowl, but have a weak season and most people forget they exist. It’s a town of transplants and nobody really cares about them. I was just going to say.. They should have added a small PSL to United Season Tickets. Split the PSL revenue between Falcons and United. The United are the hottest ticket in town since none of us transplants had a previous home-town Soccer team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 PSLs are a sham. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 3 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said: If PSLs were required to get seasons in Buffalo, I would be out so quickly. Tickets are expensive enough and if had to pay another 5k for the right to pay another couple thousand dollars, I honestly wouldn't even consider it. With how many years I've had to eat hundreds of dollars on the secondary market when the team has been bad or the weather sucks, I can't think of a worse investment than PSLs Tickets are cheap compared to most of the NFL. 1 hour ago, iinii said: PSLs are a sham. Well you could argue they are a user fee on those who will use the stadium most. Better than a broad-based tax, no? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, iinii said: PSLs are a sham. Nope. They are a successful business strategy as long as there are fans willing to sign on the dotted line of the PSL contract. They are not going away anytime soon. Edited January 31, 2020 by LabattBlue 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 13 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Tickets are cheap compared to most of the NFL. Just because a product is more expensive elsewhere doesn't make it any less of a burden on me when I buy it here 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 35 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said: Just because a product is more expensive elsewhere doesn't make it any less of a burden on me when I buy it here Then you are making the case that Buffalo, as a market, can't support an NFL team. Let's face it. This is the league's issue with Buffalo. They want 32 Dallases and New Englands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 4 hours ago, machine gun kelly said: This is what concerns me with a new Bills stadium as so many owners do PSL’s for a new stadium, and many pay it as the team may be doing well, and eventually they default and plan goes away when the team is not doing well, or the economy turns negative. An example is I can’t remember the year, but when Ray Jay in Tampa was built blowing up the Sombrero, one year PSL’s started and was a 10 year investment. At the conclusion of those 10 years, that money would be attributed to the cost of season tickets. This was during the Dungy/Gruden years, and as the economy turned in 2008, and the team was going south, people gave up their PSL’s in droves. Normally Tampa fairs well economically given the increased industry and very low to nothing in corporate taxes trying to get companies to relocate South, and across FL, it worked with low unemployment, but as we all know 2008 hit everyone and hard. Im not trying to make this a political economic strategy, but just giving one of the reasons the PSL’s went from a huge Poster the size of Ray Jay promoting a wait list of 80,000 for PSL’s to them discontinuing the program after people left in droves. They have been at an all time low for years in season tickets without the PSL’s. My concern is for my Buffalo friends who live there and have seasons don’t get out priced with these PSL’s. I just can’t see that working in Buffalo, but many teams building stadiums do it, and even without PSL’s, you can be assured as many are concerned those prices will go up. I love flying up with the kids and with adult family and friends going to two games which is not cheap. I hope I didn’t take this sideways, I just read that article and all I could think about is the impact on Buffalo in two years. Ralph Wilson said PSLs would never work in Buffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuvian Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 We have reached peak football. I didn't know the Steelers were having a hard time getting PSL commitments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 4 hours ago, corta765 said: PSL's have only had moderate success and by success I mean not been an utter disaster in Cleveland and Pittsburgh. But the cost was far more modest compared to the newer stadiums where your paying ridiculous amounts for the right to actually buy your seats. My idea if they want some sort of fan investment would be a ticket tax instead. Lets say your wanted to raise 75 million for the stadium over 15 years. Spread that cost over the 15 years and it works out to about 5 million needed per season. The Bills have around 71,000 seats-ish and over 8 regular season games it breaks down to about $9 extra per ticket. Again not great fans are paying more, but it is far more logical and would face less opposition as opposed to PSL which would never fly. If you include pre season games in this equation which season tickets holders have to pay for and the STH base is around 50k you could cut the tax a little lower to $7 per ticket. Again this is just an idea on better ways to generate revenue in no way am I endorsing this Similar idea but more palatable to me- you do the PSL with up front payment of 10k but you lock I cost to PSL holder for lifetime or like 20 years of them holding seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said: Tickets are cheap compared to most of the NFL. Well you could argue they are a user fee on those who will use the stadium most. Better than a broad-based tax, no? Yes in that regard but buyer beware. To me they are more or less like a timeshare. 1 hour ago, LabattBlue said: Nope. They are a successful business strategy as long as there are fans willing to sign on the dotted line of the PSL contract. They are not going away anytime soon. You are right about one thing. There is a sucker born every minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 30 minutes ago, stuvian said: We have reached peak football. I didn't know the Steelers were having a hard time getting PSL commitments It is truly market saturation and why the NFL is working so hard to expand out of the country. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/1147108-why-personal-seat-licenses-are-killing-football-for-the-average-nfl-fan.amp.html Broken down quite simply, a personal seat license is the dumbest purchase you will ever make: a payment that allows you to pay for something else you want. But in at least 15 NFL stadiums, it is a necessary purchase if you want to spend eight glorious days of the year rooting for the home team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4_kidd_4 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 30 minutes ago, stuvian said: We have reached peak football. I didn't know the Steelers were having a hard time getting PSL commitments I think you’re onto something here. I think there’s an overall sense of ‘fatigue’ from NFL overstimulation. It used to be a fall to winter thing and now it’s in your face 12 months of the year. It used to be a sunday afternoon thing, with a feature matchup on monday. Now we have sunday night, monday night, thursday night and even sometimes saturdays. The games themselves are so drawn out and the pace is just killed by all the timeouts. The at home experience gets more appealing every year too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 13 minutes ago, 4_kidd_4 said: I think you’re onto something here. I think there’s an overall sense of ‘fatigue’ from NFL overstimulation. It used to be a fall to winter thing and now it’s in your face 12 months of the year. It used to be a sunday afternoon thing, with a feature matchup on monday. Now we have sunday night, monday night, thursday night and even sometimes saturdays. The games themselves are so drawn out and the pace is just killed by all the timeouts. The at home experience gets more appealing every year too. appealing or appalling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corta765 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said: Then you are making the case that Buffalo, as a market, can't support an NFL team. Let's face it. This is the league's issue with Buffalo. They want 32 Dallases and New Englands. I agree with your premise although I wouldn't say the league wants 32 Dallas or NE's. I do think the NFL wants all teams exploring and utilizing as many avenues as possible to increase revenue and in the case of Buffalo there is much left on the table right now. The Raiders moved to Vegas and created new lanes of money. Vegas won't be a top grossing franchise but they increased their lanes. Buffalo fans need to face the fact the lanes will have to increase at some point and at least the Pegula's seem smart enough to not force something dumb like PSL's and will consider renovations over a new stadium. But it will cost more regardless and the NFL will want more options for families because they produce more revenue then singular fans. 49 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said: Similar idea but more palatable to me- you do the PSL with up front payment of 10k but you lock I cost to PSL holder for lifetime or like 20 years of them holding seats. So basically I pay 5k for a PSL but lets say it then guranatees 5 years of season tickets at $1500 for a pair with no price increase? Is that what your saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 14 minutes ago, 4_kidd_4 said: I think you’re onto something here. I think there’s an overall sense of ‘fatigue’ from NFL overstimulation. It used to be a fall to winter thing and now it’s in your face 12 months of the year. It used to be a sunday afternoon thing, with a feature matchup on monday. Now we have sunday night, monday night, thursday night and even sometimes saturdays. The games themselves are so drawn out and the pace is just killed by all the timeouts. The at home experience gets more appealing every year too. Plus, the on-field product flat out sucks. You talk about fatigue from overstimulation, and while I definitely agree, at the same time I could (and do) watch College Football on Thursday Nights, Friday Nights, ALL day Saturday and anytime else it is on and never get burnt out on it. Because the on-field product is far more entertaining. More diverse teams with different schemes instead of every team doing the same thing. And far better officiating, or at least refs that dont look like they are trying to fix games. The NFL cant even define a catch, nor get PI calls right even on replays without the refs revolting. It's just becoming a garbage league because of bad leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimtoga Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 NFL will do what they did with the Cheats and turn the Falcons into a dynasty. Kelly Bryant will be the next Brady even though he couldn’t beat out Trevor Lawrence like Brady couldn’t beat Drew Hanson at Michigan. People will say he is the GOAT with only looking at the ends and not the means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Mike in Horseheads said: I just read about this in the NY Post . They trash PSL's at every opportunity and point out how the Jets and Giants "waiting list" dried up with them. Atlanta Falcons patrons have defaulted on more than $32 million of PSL purchases. Another town to learn that Roger Goodell’s claim that PSLs are “good investments” was bogus. $32m out of $293m is an 11% default rate. I would have guessed it was higher. Then factor in the ability to resell the same seat and it seems like the program is operating just the way the NFL had hoped. PSLs are essentially a way to have the fans contribution to the cost of a new stadium. I'd rather that than taxpayers paying that $300m. 4 hours ago, SF Bills Fan said: In San Francisco with the new Chase Center, the PSLs are expensive but the holder of the PSL gets paid back after like 30 years, so the fans are basically giving the Warriors a no interest loan. .....or......you can just roll it into your PSA for the new Google Center, scheduled to open in 2047! Edited January 31, 2020 by KD in CA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Horseheads Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 4 hours ago, Augie said: And that was when the new stadium opened. I know the STADIUM is still there, because I’ve been there several times.......for soccer. AWESOME experience! Much more juice than a Falcons game. The Falcons are an afterthought in Atlanta. They got a little attention when they got to the Super Bowl, but have a weak season and most people forget they exist. It’s a town of transplants and nobody really cares about them. Is there any pro sport that Atlanta really cares about? They lost hockey, The Hawks always have empty seats, the Braves can't sell out playoff games and now your saying the Falcons are a afterthought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 53 minutes ago, iinii said: Yes in that regard but buyer beware. To me they are more or less like a timeshare. An excellent analogy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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