BringBackFlutie Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 1 hour ago, BigBillsFan said: ...I don't like a lot of the private parts of the medical industry... ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 40 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: I had a coworker who came from Pharma sales. We were working for a god awful company in the aerospace industry at the time. It gouged the hell out of the government and airlines and they treated everyone outside of top management as poorly as their customers. Worst job of my life by far. He said his Pharma job was worse. There was zero effort by that company to help people and that their strategy was to keep people on maintenance medication for as long as possible. Specific strategy for diabetics was to keep them on medication their whole lives despite it meaning gradually declining health and eventual death. Any efforts to find something to actually cure the patients was avoided. I’m not one to downplay the positive effects of capitalism. It has tremendous value to society. My issues come from the lack of true free markets brought about by having companies and industries that are large (wealthy) enough to impact laws that limit competition and innovation - as well as the legal system that allows that to happen. The result is not true capitalism. I also see healthcare as having such importance to society that at least basic care should be available to every citizen and that special safety measures should be in place to eliminate issues like what I mentioned above. Thats my 2¢ on the matter. I’ll leave it there unless there’s a specific question. Ding ding ding, we have a winner!! This is what medicine is about in general, now emergency medicine is different and necessary but other than that it is 100% about $$$. You know, keeping people on as many pharmaceuticals for life as possible when they are way worse for your health than not managing symptoms of health problems that are completely reversible. Worse allopathy has everyone brainwashed into thinking they have all the answers and are looking out for everyone's best interests. Keep putting these guys up on pedestals and bowing down to them, they are the heroes and saviors of humanity after all!!! No wonder these people have such huge egos, they go completely unchecked with almost everyone defending them while having no clue of what they are talking about, just blindly following along because they are ignorant to science? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 Anyone surprised by THIS guy ending up at this point, raise hour hand. This isn’t about Doctor and “the market”. It’s about a man who has since this all started been an opportunist and a bit of a sham. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, BigBillsFan said: Yes because the greatest advances to medicine have been done without the market, in fact socialized medicine is the biggest reason today for the advancement in science. If you mean government funding of university research., then yes it is. That's how most breakthroughs are made. Edited January 27, 2020 by PromoTheRobot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatloaf63 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 4 hours ago, GunnerBill said: There has been plenty of innovation and medical advancement in the UK healthcare sector since it was "socialised". Creating a market where doctors have to act in a grey areas as both consultants and salespeople is not the best way to advance the case for objective, evidence based medical research and innovation. Nobody has furthered the field of “we are going to make the choice of what treatment your child can receive even if it means their death” than the British health care system that’s for sure? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 5 hours ago, GunnerBill said: There has been plenty of innovation and medical advancement in the UK healthcare sector since it was "socialised". Creating a market where doctors have to act in a grey areas as both consultants and salespeople is not the best way to advance the case for objective, evidence based medical research and innovation. The rate of innovation from the National Institute of health (the US tax payer funded drug research program) is greater than the US private sector. Even France and other nations with socialized medical research innovate at rates at or above the US private sector 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babulator Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 8 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I know there is a risk of this turning overtly political but this is what happens when you turn healthcare over to the market. It's pretty terrifying when the collective decides whats best for you. Even more so when they control the things you need. No thanks, I'm not willing to cede my health care and well being to the state. It's mind boggling to me that anyone would. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 8 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I know there is a risk of this turning overtly political but this is what happens when you turn healthcare over to the market. I don't know about that....but I know what happens when you turn it over to the government and its universal healthcare like in Canada...you end up paying an assload in taxes and still have to come to the US and pay for procedures out of pocket because there are ridiculous waiting lists of 6 months to a year or more for basic procedures to get done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryPinC Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 For me as a scientist (cardiology research), the real problem is when scientists (and doctors) become activists. Kind of like when our "free press" jumps bandwagon on allowing their personal views to cloud their objectivity in reporting. There should be no doubt CTE is real. The real question should be how much of a problem is this? I can't emphasize enough the vast majority of the data was hugely biased with professional football players who clearly had neurological-based problems before being enrolled in the study. It was not an open sampling of every NFL player. It was not an open sampling of athletes. It is perfectly welcome to be overcautious as the research develops, my only hope is that the research will address the question of actual risk in ALL football athletes (and all athletes) and not just elucidate the disorder with scare tactics thrown in. I have coached both my kids through youth sports and anecdotally, there was clearly an individual susceptibility to concussion in my opinion. Around 1 million kids a year play high school football. I played high school football. Am I going to develop CTE, especially given I don't think I've ever sustained a concussion and definitely never experienced anything like post-concussion syndrome? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, BigBillsFan said: The point is it's not a clean "private bad" "public good". I don't like a lot of the private parts of the medical industry, but to make it in a tight window of "private companies" is silly as most of the funding for universities does not come from itself, but manufacturing and innovation. Poor countries for example have no such innovation for that reason, and poor socialist countries like Cuba are proof you need both. I'm curious. What are some of the big advancements that came about from US companies without using public money? Edited January 27, 2020 by jeremy2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 15 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: There's no doubt in my mind personally that CTE is real. But drug abuse (both recreational and PED) and alcohol abuse also damage the brain. I think there's a muddled picture of how each contribute in the case of many athletes. That, and the typical American view of mental health issues being perceived as "weak", when most of these guys (like Junior Seau) are actually just depressed because they get shut out from the only thing they've had in life at like 35 years old and dont know what to do next. They lose their friends, they lose their purpose, they lose the spotlight... after they spent their entire lives being propped up as king sh!t. I often think of when Frank Gifford passed away recently. He died at 85 years old, and there was a story soon afterward about how people wanted his brain examined for CTE as the possible cause of death. Umm, how about he was 8-freaking-5!! If anything that would prove CTE doesnt harm you. I agree it's a real thing, but I don't think it's as bad as people want to make it out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianmoorman4jesus Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 How many regular people (non football players) have CTE? Everyone is obsessed with the pct of football players they found CTE in...but what is the relation to the norm? Does my mailman have it? Does sleeping on a pillow give it to you? Do we know CTE is rare in humans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 17 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: That, and the typical American view of mental health issues being perceived as "weak", when most of these guys (like Junior Seau) are actually just depressed because they get shut out from the only thing they've had in life at like 35 years old and dont know what to do next. They lose their friends, they lose their purpose, they lose the spotlight... after they spent their entire lives being propped up as king sh!t. I often think of when Frank Gifford passed away recently. He died at 85 years old, and there was a story soon afterward about how people wanted his brain examined for CTE as the possible cause of death. Umm, how about he was 8-freaking-5!! If anything that would prove CTE doesnt harm you. I agree it's a real thing, but I don't think it's as bad as people want to make it out to be. Nailed it. And, they didn't just want Gifford's brain examined. They did do it - and said he had CTE! Friggin ridiculous. 7 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said: How many regular people (non football players) have CTE? Everyone is obsessed with the pct of football players they found CTE in...but what is the relation to the norm? Does my mailman have it? Does sleeping on a pillow give it to you? Do we know CTE is rare in humans? That's the question - I never see it addressed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill963 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 7 hours ago, GunnerBill said: There has been plenty of innovation and medical advancement in the UK healthcare sector since it was "socialised". Creating a market where doctors have to act in a grey areas as both consultants and salespeople is not the best way to advance the case for objective, evidence based medical research and innovation. Haha go peddle your bs in the non football threads 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 1 hour ago, jeremy2020 said: I'm curious. What are some of the big advancements that came about from US companies without using public money? Viagra!! 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 6 hours ago, Meatloaf63 said: Nobody has furthered the field of “we are going to make the choice of what treatment your child can receive even if it means their death” than the British health care system that’s for sure? You mean the good ol' USA??? When else is a modality allowed to rule over juridiction of parents other than dictatorships, or socialism??? These people have been Gods wayyyy too long... sorry I know the game... Chemotherapy for Rheumatoid arthritis in children?!?!?!?!?! WTF?!?!?! Wake up people!!!! 3 hours ago, BuffaloBill963 said: Haha go peddle your bs in the non football threads Really? See what I mean??? Bro do you even Medicine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 4 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said: How many regular people (non football players) have CTE? Everyone is obsessed with the pct of football players they found CTE in...but what is the relation to the norm? Does my mailman have it? Does sleeping on a pillow give it to you? Do we know CTE is rare in humans? TBI =CTE it's not rocket science... You smash your brain up then you gotta deal with the consequences... 4 hours ago, bbb said: Nailed it. And, they didn't just want Gifford's brain examined. They did do it - and said he had CTE! Friggin ridiculous. That's the question - I never see it addressed. Addressed by whom is the problem.... DRs??? What about unbiased individuals who also understand science? 8 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Anyone surprised by THIS guy ending up at this point, raise hour hand. This isn’t about Doctor and “the market”. It’s about a man who has since this all started been an opportunist and a bit of a sham. Most likey anybody with an opportunity usually ceases it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, Sherlock Holmes said: TBI =CTE it's not rocket science... You smash your brain up then you gotta deal with the consequences... Addressed by whom is the problem.... DRs??? What about unbiased individuals who also understand science? Most likey anybody with an opportunity usually ceases it... he should cease immediately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 21 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: There's no doubt in my mind personally that CTE is real. But drug abuse (both recreational and PED) and alcohol abuse also damage the brain. I think there's a muddled picture of how each contribute in the case of many athletes. Bingo. And any time an athlete does anything remotely strange people point to CTE, even when the known symptoms and side effects have nothing to do with those actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 7 hours ago, billsfan89 said: The rate of innovation from the National Institute of health (the US tax payer funded drug research program) is greater than the US private sector. Even France and other nations with socialized medical research innovate at rates at or above the US private sector What metric is used to calculate that. Do you have sources? I'm not doubting you, I'm just curious. I work in economic development and that would be interesting data to look at. Do they break it down by states also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts