The Next Pandemic: SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19

[Scraps]

10 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Yes...we all need to hear Dr. Falsey tell everyone to stay inside every day for the next half century.  And it would be great to get the daily body bag count from the Scarf Queen every morning. It's way past time to go to the Bull Pen and get people in the solutions business in there.  The current team, while certainly expert at what they do, are NOT in the solutions business.  They are in the curve flattening business.  The curve has now been flattened!

Where I live, we haven't peaked.

 

You go ahead and do what you want.  If you get Covid-19, find some good disinfectant, inject it, huff it and you will be good to go.

[Buffalo_Gal]

16 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Oh come on now.    

 

I am a scientist and clinician.  That viruses ON SURFACES are susceptible to disinfectants and UV light is hardly a new revelation; we've know that for decades. How long have products like Lysol been on the market after all?  I've used  UV lights in my lab for 30 years to disinfect surfaces.  It was of course right to do the kinds of studies like this on the Corona virus because you have to make sure you know how this particular strain reacts.  So from that sense having this data is helpful in terms of knowing how to disinfect surfaces and such.

 

But to somehow think you can extrapolate that to ingesting disinfectants, or somehow absorbing UV rays or light deep into the body, is so devoid of any common sense and so devoid of anything approaching rational scientific thought that it is embarrassing for the country that some folks have to be told this.  As President, you cannot just come out and toss half cocked insane ideas out there for the public to consume, because someone uneducated in science and medicine will actually think it's something to try and they will die doing so.  

 

Are harmful substances used to treat diseases?  Yes.  Is radioactive iodine one?  No, because the dosages are very small and because iodine concentrates in the thyroid, which is why radioactive iodine is used to treat thyroid cancer.  Do we use radiation and chemotherapy to treat cancer?  Yes.  Do you know why?  Because those agents tend to hit rapidly dividing cells, i.e.cancerous cells.  Are there terrible side effects of these?  Yes.  Can they be fatal?  Yes.  Do qualified medical physicians, nurses, etc. sit with patients and explain those to them so they fully understand the potential positives and negatives of treatment before proceeding?  Yes.  All  these are completely different than having a President who doesn't have the first damn clue about anything medical and scientific throwing out ridiculous and harmful statements at a press conference, and then asking people who know he's crazy to actually study them.  There is no reason to study these ideas, they are completely absurd and someone from his staff should have had the guts to say that last night.

 

And the fact that this has to be said in this thread because there are actually citizens of this country who would place any credence in this nonsense is just pathetic.

 

So, yes, yes, yes those are poisons, and we use then to treat XYZ, but wow you are (me) stupid? M'kay.  It is a wonder anyone ever thought to use those outside the box (at the time) treatments for anything.  I am guessing those scientists that came up with those procedures were laughed at when they were first contemplated? (The bravest people out there are people in clinical studies.)

Later in this thread I have quoted what Trump actually said. You may want to read the riff. He never suggested anyone ingest anything. He asked the scientists to look into ways of using what they know will kill the virus in completely unusual ways. Will it work? Is it possible? No one knows (and he said that himself). However, it is outside-the-box thinking. Which, of course, people should be derided for.


 

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

Your quote above indicates he asked about bringing either UV light or disinfectants inside the body.  Both of those are completely absurd and an affront to common sense.  

 

He said it, he owns it.  Period.  

Why are they absurd? Because it has not been done yet? Because we currently do not have a way to do it?  Again, he also mentioned it may not be possible. But why not look into it?
 

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Buffalo_Gal said:

So, yes, yes, yes those are poisons, and we use then to treat XYZ, but wow you are (me) stupid? M'kay.  It is a wonder anyone ever thought to use those outside the box (at the time) treatments for anything.  I am guessing those scientists that came up with those procedures were laughed at when they were first contemplated? (The bravest people out there are people in clinical studies.)

Later in this thread I have quoted what Trump actually said. You may want to read the riff. He never suggested anyone ingest anything. He asked the scientists to look into ways of using what they know will kill the virus in completely unusual ways. Will it work? Is it possible? No one knows (and he said that himself). However, it is outside-the-box thinking. Which, of course, people should be derided for.


 

 And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning? Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that,

 

These are the words he used.  Again, the idea of internalizing disinfectants or UV light is absurd, and it is sad that you have to be told this.  You talk about out of the box?  Fine, explain your theory then.

[Scraps]

13 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

Watch the clip.

After the homeland security guy talked, Trump monologued: (just the text)
 

So, I'm going to ask Bill a question that probably some of you are thinking of if you're totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposing when we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it's ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. And I think you said you’re going to test that too. Sounds interesting. And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning? Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that, so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful.
 

A few moments later, ABC News reporter Jon Karl asked Bryan, "The president mentioned the idea of a cleaner, bleach and isopropyl alcohol emerging. There’s no scenario where that could be injected into a person, is there?"
 

"No, I'm here to talk about the finds that we had in the study," Bryan responded. "We don’t do that within that lab at our labs."
 

Trump then clarified his remarks: "It wouldn’t be through injections, you’re talking about almost a cleaning and sterilization of an area. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t work, but it certainly has a big affect if it’s on a stationary object."

</snip>

After that, some guy on Twitter got on to attack the comments and build a narrative that was very different than what was said, and in what context.  And then the blue check-marks had their talking point. Which spread to this message board.

I woke up this morning to this gas lighting. I knew  I had watched a presser where Trump never told anyone to ingest anything. He asked the scientists about looking into a possible treatment. Yet, somehow it has morphed into "Trump told people to drink bleach!"

TDS is the real virulent disease here.

 

Repeating the same stupidity over and over does not make it any more rational.

[Buffalo_Gal]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

 And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning? Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that,

 

These are the words he used.  Again, the idea of internalizing disinfectants or UV light is absurd, and it is sad that you have to be told this.  You talk about out of the box?  Fine, explain your theory then.

I don't have one, and neither did he. That is why during his riff he asked the scientists to look into it.  

 

[SoCal Deek]

5 minutes ago, Scraps said:

Where I live, we haven't peaked.

 

You go ahead and do what you want.  If you get Covid-19, find some good disinfectant, inject it, huff it and you will be good to go.

May I ask where you live?

 

 

[Scraps]

16 minutes ago, snafu said:

 

Because he’s done it every day and he needs to look like he’s leading the response.

The same can be said for Cuomo, etc etc.  None of them need to belly up to the microphone in reality, but people will wonder why they’re not.

 

Yeah but at least Cuomo doesn't sound like a moron.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 hour ago, shoshin said:

 

Here's the thing: I think most people wouldn't drink bleach no matter what Trump said. But Trump still said we should investigate injecting surface disinfectants and UV light beneath the skin to kill a virus...as a treatment. It is, as stated above, evidence of a guy who doesn't understand the science here at a 5th grade level, and I guess that would be fine, if he would defer to the people who know better. 

 

Take for example, this interesting article about Sweden's approach and why its politicians and culture make a difference. Every time someone here says, "We should follow Sweden," I'm in agreement but note my belief that there's ZERO CHANCE we can do what Sweden is doing because we are culturally so different. Does the below sound like something Trump could stomach?

 

 

This is a waste of time but I'll share it anyways.  

 

I learned not to drink bleach well before 5th grade, and I learned the number of states stands at 50 by the time I was 4.  How did Barrack Obama get through high school, and complete is education at Harvard thinking there were 57 states? 

 

I learned to look before I leap when I was 6, how on earth did Barrack Obama think it wise to rashly jump into the fray and accuse the Boston PD of overt racism, and suggest his buddy was targeted solely because of the color of his skin, and think some bs pr rolled up-sleeve beer summit would rebuild trust between the American people and the police? It made him look emotionally vapid. 

 

I learned around the age of 21 that virtually every large financial transaction was rightly subject to scrutiny and oversight and typically was accomplished electronically.  The problem, I understood, was that cash was untraceable, subject to skim, and frowned upon by both the banking industry and the US Government.  Yet...when Obama acted unilaterally to return money to Iran, he went out of his way to avoid traditional banking rules, US regulations and common sense and loaded a cargo plane full of nickles, dimes and quarters and shipped it off to individuals who are commonly heard muttering "DEATH TO AMERICA".  I'm uncertain how he missed the whole requirement for financial transparency.  Maybe he's fiscally challenged? 

 

The fact is that Donald Trump graduated from a prestigious business school, made a fortune working in a world of payola, crooked schemes, organized crime, onerous regulation and a corrupt NYC and NYS government. Thereafter, he shocked the world with a grass roots run at the presidency that was well run, technologically sound, and successful beyond his widest dreams.  

 

Thereafter, he beat entrenched career politicians, a corrupt former administration, the democrat leadership, the FBI, the DOJ, elements of the Central Intelligence Agency, a team of a dozen former prosecutors with an unlimited budget and a hostile at a game no one could ever imagine he could win.  By contrast, Mitt Romney buckled because he used to drive his car with a dog on the roof, he kept resumes of potential recruits for key leadership rolls in his business,  and because he correctly stated that 50% of the American electorate would never vote for him.  Hillary Clinton was undone because she thought there were only 3 states that mattered, she deleted emails, and she thinks she's the only woman in America not bullied by her husband into voting for racists.  

 

I never underestimated Barrack Obama because he thought there were two extra Dakotas, that Washington DC was a state and California  had broken off into three separate parts.  I think it's silly to underestimate Donald Trump (again). 

 

Have at it all you want with this issue, but just remember when push came to shove, the experts predicted a massive number of dead and dying in the street, and in a time when unprecedented leadership by a strong hand was required, the Trump administration delivered and many, many thousands of lives were saved as a result.   You can thank him later, at the ballot box.  In contrast, we found that in a state like NY, with dem leadership across the board, we quickly discovered chaos, anarchy, a lack of preparedness, and no true plan to address the needs of the people of the state.  Thank God for Trump, huh?

 

 

[Buffalo_Gal]

1 minute ago, Scraps said:

Repeating the same stupidity over and over does not make it any more rational.

Wow, I hope you are not in R&D in any form. Everything is stupid, until it works. (And before you beat me up, nope I am not saying this will work, and neither did he. But why not research it?)

[Q-baby!]

Good morning ball lickers! Nice to see you all here in spin mode! Have a nice day! ???

[3rdnlng]

59 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

 

 

I know! I know! Let's do nothing and ask no questions so more people can die!!

When you watched the clip, the guy from homeland security said, "we are looking into it" and "we will look into it." As scientists, no stone can be left unturned when searching for a cure to a disease.

I am quite sure some of the doctors on this board can tell you about things that they layperson would consider poison when ingested, that are used in diluted/different formulas for XYZ in the medical treatments. Heck, radioactive iodine, radioactive therapy for cancer, chemo drugs are poison - and I am just some schlump thinking about it - yet all are used on the human body to "cure" some diseases.  

Maybe you all would like to think outside the box for ways to combat this virus instead of acting like our press and dismissing everything President Trump says out of hand, simply because President Trump has said them.

 

A treatment for the symptoms of Lyme disease is daily sessions in an infrared sauna. 

[Scraps]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

May I ask where you live?

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

May I ask where you live?

 

 

Northern Virginia, but I work in Maryland just outside of DC.

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

I don't have one, and neither did he. That is why during his riff he asked the scientists to look into it.  

 

And they will tell him it is completely absurd.   Meanwhile, you have citizens who are not trained in science and medicine listening to this thinking there may be some validity because the president said so.  It is irresponsible, dangerous, and stupid.

[SoCal Deek]

5 minutes ago, Scraps said:

Repeating the same stupidity over and over does not make it any more rational.

I couldn't agree more Scraps.  Let's not look into a communication tool where people can talk with each other all of over the world in real time by just typing into a keyboard. Let's not look into getting electricity from the sun.  Let's not put people into aluminum tubes, and have them fly all over the world.  And....let's not inject people with little radioactive isotopes to cure cancer!  Yeah....none of that will EVERY POSSIBLY work.

4 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

A treatment for the symptoms of Lyme disease is daily sessions in an infrared sauna. 

You mean the same Lyme disease that's named after the TOWN IN CONNECTICUT where it originated?  That Lyme disease?

[Buffalo_Gal]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

And they will tell him it is completely absurd.   Meanwhile, you have citizens who are not trained in science and medicine listening to this thinking there may be some validity because the president said so.  It is irresponsible, dangerous, and stupid.

Maybe that reporter shouldn't have mentioned bleach if the citizenry are so stupid?

And if they tell him it is completely absurd, and yet find out something else while investigating that process? What then?
 

[Q-baby!]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

I couldn't agree more Scraps.  Let's not look into a communication tool where people can talk with each other all of over the world in real time by just typing into a keyboard. Let's not look into getting electricity from the sun.  Let's not put people into aluminum tubes, and have them fly all over the world.  And....let's not inject people with little radioactive isotopes to cure cancer!  Yeah....none of that will EVERY POSSIBLY work.

Would you have the same response if Biden said it and not the stable genius? 

[B-Man]

 

THE MODELS WERE WRONG. DOES ANYONE CARE ?

 

Everyone who has been paying attention knows that the epidemiological models on which the current shutdown mania is based have been proved to be wrong, wrong, wrong. Yet, zombie-like, they continue to influence our ill-informed policymakers.

 

A reader who prefers to remain anonymous despite her apparent qualifications writes:

 

I just want to follow up yet again on how extraordinarily wrong the projections for hospital demand have been, along with some detail about what’s going on in hospitals. In a number of states they’re about to reopen for nonemergency procedures. But over the past month they’ve been so empty that they’ve been laying off staff.

 

Here are some details I got from a friend at UNC-Chapel Hill this morning: “Less than 373 hospitalized with COVID as of yesterday. More than 800 empty ICU beds in the state & more than 7000 empty hospital beds overall. Close to 2000 ventilators not in use. Approximately 40% of deaths in the state have been in nursing homes/retirement homes/prisons.”

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Boatdrinks]

32 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Oh come on now.    

 

I am a scientist and clinician.  That viruses ON SURFACES are susceptible to disinfectants and UV light is hardly a new revelation; we've know that for decades. How long have products like Lysol been on the market after all?  I've used  UV lights in my lab for 30 years to disinfect surfaces.  It was of course right to do the kinds of studies like this on the Corona virus because you have to make sure you know how this particular strain reacts.  So from that sense having this data is helpful in terms of knowing how to disinfect surfaces and such.

 

But to somehow think you can extrapolate that to ingesting disinfectants, or somehow absorbing UV rays or light deep into the body, is so devoid of any common sense and so devoid of anything approaching rational scientific thought that it is embarrassing for the country that some folks have to be told this.  As President, you cannot just come out and toss half cocked insane ideas out there for the public to consume, because someone uneducated in science and medicine will actually think it's something to try and they will die doing so.  

 

Are harmful substances used to treat diseases?  Yes.  Is radioactive iodine one?  No, because the dosages are very small and because iodine concentrates in the thyroid, which is why radioactive iodine is used to treat thyroid cancer.  Do we use radiation and chemotherapy to treat cancer?  Yes.  Do you know why?  Because those agents tend to hit rapidly dividing cells, i.e.cancerous cells.  Are there terrible side effects of these?  Yes.  Can they be fatal?  Yes.  Do qualified medical physicians, nurses, etc. sit with patients and explain those to them so they fully understand the potential positives and negatives of treatment before proceeding?  Yes.  All  these are completely different than having a President who doesn't have the first damn clue about anything medical and scientific throwing out ridiculous and harmful statements at a press conference, and then asking people who know he's crazy to actually study them.  There is no reason to study these ideas, they are completely absurd and someone from his staff should have had the guts to say that last night.

 

And the fact that this has to be said in this thread because there are actually citizens of this country who would place any credence in this nonsense is just pathetic.

 

You’re way off base, because everyone knows not to do such a thing (it’s not what Trump said anyway) and only someone who thinks everyone else is not intelligent would think otherwise. It doesn’t need to be said , nutjobs just believe that it does. Only a Dem has done something so obviously foolish (by drinking fish tank cleaner), at least to date. 

[SoCal Deek]

3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

And they will tell him it is completely absurd.   Meanwhile, you have citizens who are not trained in science and medicine listening to this thinking there may be some validity because the president said so.  It is irresponsible, dangerous, and stupid.

People 'who are not trained in Science and Medicine' should not be testing home remedies....and the President didn't ask them to!  By the way, those same morons should not be going to their doctors every day telling them they saw a commercial on TV for a fancy sounding medication that will cure their made up symptoms....yet every commercial on TV tells them to do just that.

[Scraps]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

Wow, I hope you are not in R&D in any form. Everything is stupid, until it works. (And before you beat me up, nope I am not saying this will work, and neither did he. But why not research it?)

Some things are just to stupid to spend even a second of serious consideration.  Injecting people with disinfectant is one of them.