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The Next Pandemic: SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

The article claimed that Trump failed to do anything from the time anyone knew about this virus on Dec 31st, until the beginning of March, yet, literally offered no evidence, whatsoever, that provides anything close to a compelling argument that Trump, should have taken any other steps than he did before the end of February.

 

No. The article didn't claim this.

 

Proves you didn't read it.

 

Quote

 

If the article is going to claim he failed to act during that time frame, then provide some evidence as to why he should have. They provided nothing. Not one bit of evidence. They discussed other things that I might even agree with; however, as to the point of delay: Nothing.

 

Again... more proof you didn't read.

 

Oy. This is just sad.

 

Quote

 

Now, please provide us with the evidence that shows Trump should have known, before the end of February, how serious this virus was going to be outside of China. Don't quote us another article with no actual facts. Tell us in your own words and cite the evidence that leads you to that conclusion.

 

If you want to have a real discussion, now is your chance.

 

You first.

 

 

This is pathetic.

 

 

Again. Stop distracting everyone with your arrogance and defend your initial claim that the article is bull####. You're the one who made that statement first. The onus is on you to prove it.

 

Too bad you clearly can't.

 

You sure do like chasing your own tail and wasting time, though.

Edited by transplantbillsfan

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2 hours ago, TheProcess said:

I’m sorry, but for Christ sake, the guy laid it all out in a ridiculously long post with legit information from a reputably sourced article. But I guess that’s just fake news. Nothing but constant deflection around here. Reminds me of why I’ve never spent any time in the dark underbelly of TBD that is the PPP section. It’s clear this is just an extension of the Trump apologist zone. Don’t like the guy? Get out! Fine I’ll go, but first...
 

The China problem is known. I agree, they F’d up by not being forthcoming and suppressing information from the rest of the world. A huge amount of blame is at their feet.  Can’t trust them, and that’s always been the case. But based on their track record, don’t you think the situation warranted a little skepticism or intrigue until proven otherwise? Instead of blowing it off, didn’t the administration at least owe us that? At what point do we hold our #1 elected official accountable for his actions? Never? Ok great. Maybe you, but not me. 
 

Believe me, I’m not willing to exonerate states either. It’s mind boggling how some state leaders have reacted to this too, and they own some blame in how they’ve handled this. It’s certainly not 100% on Trump. But it’s incredible how devoted the Trump base is. The guy is seriously like Teflon.  People just let the guy skate because he’s got our best interest at heart. Right. The guy doesn’t give a damn about you, me, or anyone in between. His inability to take accountability and accept blame is astounding. Just wait until Easter when this hoax is all over. Life will be back to normal and the guy will roll in a whole new cabinet of yes men and ego strokers. Wash. Rinse. Repeat. 🙄
 

People are still so hung up on and upset at Obama nearly four years after the guy walked out of the White House, that they’ll literally look past every questionable or poor decision Trump makes and tout it as great as long as Obama didn’t do it, it undoes something he previously did, or it’s the opposite of what he would’ve done. Trump supporters tell everyone else to move on and move forward, but why can’t they? Completely stuck on Obama. And this is coming from someone who didn’t vote for Obama either time. It’s just irrational and misguided hatred. Let it go. 
 

I don’t even know why I bother because there’s no convincing anyone on here or otherwise to change their opinion. And that’s ok. I’m not asking you to. But can anyone at least acknowledge the President of this great nation shares some of the blame on how poorly this has gone so far? Is that really too much to ask? Feel like I’m living in the GD twilight zone. 
 

Btw - I know I’m just giving you all what you want with this post. Another log for the fire. I don’t care if anyone responds to this post, ignores it, or emoji rolls their eyes at it. I’m out of here after this post and won’t be back to comment further in this forum. It’s pointless to be here and clear my type of thinking isn’t welcome in these parts. I only bother coming to TBD to talk Bills. If you need me, you can find me on the main forum and roll your eyes at any misguided Bills take I have up there. Peace and love. I’ll show myself out. 

 

5 hours ago, Chef Jim said:


You new here?  😉

☝️

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5 hours ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

Right . In the end Gates sound like back tracked.  Won't be bad but thing's won't go normal until vaccine. He's not making any sense lol.

 

It makes sense when you remember he’s selling vaccines. Not doing them for free. 
 

(and it helps when you remember he believes in depopulation to save the environment, yet he spends his philanthropic time creating vaccines and fighting malaria — both of which run counter to that idea. Which is just to say, he’s a complicated guy.) 
 

 

4 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

You called the article bull#### without any proof whatsoever.

 

I asked you to prove that bold claim.

 

Clearly you can't and you're just trying to distract everyone right now so you don't look so foolish.

 

Coward


Still haven’t answered the question... 

 

But that’s not shocking. You’re allergic to the whole intellectual honesty thing. 

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2 hours ago, Chef Jim said:


Doctor:  I’m sorry but you have contracted Covid-19. It’s an advanced stage and things look grim

Me:  This is terrible!  Is there anything you can do?

Doctor:  Well yes. We have this drug that may save you but it has bad side effects. 
Me:  Give me two!

I agree with this to a point. If I think I'm on my last gasp(and many people will), I'd say fire away.  That's your right, imo. I was going to go all out an try to explain, but truth is the doctors don't understand it yet.  If they don't understand it, they cannot make a treatment plan. There is no precedence in medical history where a rumor started a treatment plan, besides rub some dirt on it.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Still haven’t answered the question... 

 

But that’s not shocking. You’re allergic to the whole intellectual honesty thing. 

 

Funny that you excuse the guy who was asked a question initially and avoided actually answering it while accusing the guy still waiting on the answer to his initial question as avoiding something.

 

Learn what intellectual honesty is before you baselessly accuse someone of it.

 

Par for the course for you, though. You are a massive hypocrite. A garrulous hypocrite, but a hypocrite nonetheless.

 

 

Speaking of...

 

@billsfan1959

giphy.gif

Edited by transplantbillsfan

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8 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Incompetence or Sabotage ?

 

 

.

 

Well, with our leaders in NY there is evidence of the former but could be sabotage. 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, B-Man said:

Screen-Shot-2020-04-05-at-9.50.14-PM.png

 

 

He’s done his job for decades, but he’s never faced a crisis like this, and at 79 he’s not super mentally flexible.

 

Double-blind experiments are the norm, but this isn’t a normal time.

 

Taking shots at Fauci for his reluctance to jump all in on HCQ is not called for. Fauci is not against trying it or prescribing it. He is against saying that it works. Covid-19 is a disease that most healthy people walk away from. HCQ, which has a lot of complications (that I've personally experienced), is often not given to people who have those complications...HCQ is usually given to healthy people. So doctors who have given HCQ to healthy patients are seeing good results. Or are they? Or are they giving HCQ to just younger people who tolerate it. OR older people. Or people who are on other medications...etc.

 

The above is why we need studies to determine its actual effects. As a general anti-viral, it's been tried  before and hoped many times to help against viruses. It's also failed many times. Fauci is a veteran of seeing those failures. Here's an excerpt from a paper on HCQ from 2015 that hints at what Fauci knows and most people do not:

 

Quote

Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) is an antimalarial drug also used in treating autoimmune diseases. Its antiviral activity was demonstrated in restricting HIV infection in vitro; however, the clinical implications remain controversial. Infection with dengue virus (DENV) is a global public health problem, and we lack an antiviral drug for DENV. Here, we evaluated the anti-DENV potential of treatment with HCQ. Immunofluorescence assays demonstrated that HCQ could inhibit DENV serotype 1–4 infection in vitro. RT-qPCR analysis of HCQ-treated cells showed induced expression of interferon (IFN)-related antiviral proteins and certain inflammatory cytokines. Mechanistic study suggested that HCQ activated the innate immune signaling pathways of IFN-β, AP-1, and NFκB. Knocking down mitochondrial antiviral signaling protein (MAVS), inhibiting TANK binding kinase 1 (TBK1)/inhibitor-κB kinase ɛ (IKKɛ), and blocking type I IFN receptor reduced the efficiency of HCQ against DENV-2 infection. Furthermore, HCQ significantly induced cellular production of reactive oxygen species (ROS), which was involved in the host defense system. Suppression of ROS production attenuated the innate immune activation and anti-DENV-2 effect of HCQ. In summary, HCQ triggers the host defense machinery by inducing ROS- and MAVS-mediated innate immune activation against DENV infection and may be a candidate drug for DENV infection.

 

The above is for a dengue fever study...but note how cautious the authors are just because their assays looked good. They have seen this before. 

 

Quote

Happily, he’s not managing to roadblock this, thanks largely I believe to Peter Navarro’s task force.

 

 

Show me where Fauci tried to roadblock anything except the claims that it is working. Navarro doesn't know science. He knows tweets and anecdotes, which is all we have on this.

 

Quote

 

That poll, by the way, was of 6,227 physicians surveyed in 30 countries.

 

In Spain, 72 percent of physicians said they had prescribed it.

 

 

It makes sense that doctors will try it. Anecdotal evidence is all they have and HCQ is pretty widely available and well-studied. This is why they are prescribing anti-bacterials too. They are happy to throw anything at it they can. That doesn't mean it's working. And it also doesn't mean they should stop. 

 

Trump is pedaling hope, as he should. Fauci is pedaling science, as he should. Neither one is the bad guy. Discerning people should be hopeful but cautiously so on claims that HCQ can help. 

Edited by shoshin
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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

It makes sense when you remember he’s selling vaccines. Not doing them for free. 
 

(and it helps when you remember he believes in depopulation to save the environment, yet he spends his philanthropic time creating vaccines and fighting malaria — both of which run counter to that idea. Which is just to say, he’s a complicated guy.) 
 

 

Most people think fewer humans would be good for the earth in many ways. Not just ecologically although that's true but also economically long term. But depopulation by killing humans is a lot different than trying to find a way to birth fewer resource-consuming humans, especially for the issues he's mostly concerned about in developing countries. 

 

Gates's humanitarian efforts are praiseworthy and he has been talking about these flexible vaccine factories for a while to respond to outbreaks. He's not the only person and his investments are not the only companies that have this capability. He just gets more press because of who he is. If the early stage vaccine trials are promising, a lot of places will get started preparing in advance so we can produce sooner, even though that preparation could be a total loss if the trials don't work out. It's a risk we all are OK with. 

 

Edited by shoshin

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13 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

Most people think fewer humans would be good for the earth in many ways.

 

 

 

Not anyone who truly believes in science.

 

Pseudo-science maybe.

 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Not anyone who truly believes in science.

 

Pseudo-science maybe.

 

 

I feel like you're trying to engage in a climate change debate. I think anyone would admit that humans pollute the crap out of the earth and make a mess of it, especially the corner of it where about 3 billion people live. I am not advocating that we kill 2.5 billion of them, but India and China would not be such an environmental catastrophe if they didn't have so many people. 

 

The US and Europe have fewer issues. 

 

Edited by shoshin
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4 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

I feel like you're trying to engage in a climate change debate. I think anyone would admit that humans pollute the crap out of the earth and make a mess of it, especially the corner of it where about 3 billion people live. I am not advocating that we kill 2.5 billion of them, but India and China would not be such an environmental catastrophe if they didn't have so many people. 

 

The US and Europe have fewer issues. 

 

 

And I'm sure you realize that people even in those countries live DEMONSTRABLY better lives than people in those same countries did 1000 years ago, when the population was a fraction of what it is now, yes?

 

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

You called the article bull#### without any proof whatsoever.

I asked you to prove that bold claim.

 

I called the article bull**** because it made an accusation that Trump did nothing for 70 days and offered no evidence of when he should have acted. A point I clearly stated in the following reply.

 

11 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

The article claimed that Trump failed to do anything from the time anyone knew about this virus on Dec 31st, until the beginning of March, yet, literally offered no evidence, whatsoever, that provides anything close to a compelling argument that Trump, should have taken any other steps than he did before the end of February.

 

If the article is going to claim he failed to act during that time frame, then provide some evidence as to why he should have. They provided nothing. Not one bit of evidence. They discussed other things that I might even agree with; however, as to the point of delay: Nothing.

 

Now, please provide us with the evidence that shows Trump should have known, before the end of February, how serious this virus was going to be outside of China. Don't quote us another article with no actual facts. Tell us in your own words and cite the evidence that leads you to that conclusion.

 

If you want to have a real discussion, now is your chance.

 

This is your reply below:

 

10 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

No. The article didn't claim this.

Proves you didn't read it.

 

 

Here is your original post of the article that I originally responded to as bull****. NOTICE THE FIRST SENTENCE IN THE TWITTER POST AND BOLDED PARTS IN THE ARTICLE YOU COPIED AND PASTED.

 

On 4/5/2020 at 3:19 AM, transplantbillsfan said:

 

 

This article, which retraces the failures over the first 70 days of the coronavirus crisis, is based on 47 interviews with administration officials, public health experts, intelligence officers and others involved in fighting the pandemic. Many spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive information and decisions.

 

The Trump administration received its first formal notification of the outbreak of the coronavirus in China on Jan. 3. Within days, U.S. spy agencies were signaling the seriousness of the threat to Trump by including a warning about the coronavirus — the first of many — in the President’s Daily Brief.

 

And yet, it took 70 days from that initial notification for Trump to treat the coronavirus not as a distant threat or harmless flu strain well under control, but as a lethal force that had outflanked America’s defenses and was poised to kill tens of thousands of citizens. That more-than-two-month stretch now stands as critical time that was squandered.

 

So, let me recap:

 

1) You post an article, the point of which was to accuse the Trump Administration of failing to act for 70 days

 

2) I call it bull****, and provide a complete timeline of accurate, verifiable facts showing why it was reasonable for Trump and every other leader to not realize how substantial the threat outside of China was until late Feb. I ask you to tell us when you think he should have acted and why.

 

3) You refuse to answer my question. You respond that I called the article bull**** and ask me to prove it (even though I already did with the facts in the timeline).

 

4) I go through the article, AGAIN, and literally find nothing, AGAIN, that says WHY he should have done more. I point out to you that there is literally no evidence presented in the article to show there was a failure of Trump to act in that first 70 days.

 

5) Your response then is to actually say the article didn't claim Trump waited 70 days to act. You then stated it proves I didn't read it

 

6) It is in the actual twitter post you copied, in the very first sentence of the article you posted, and the ENTIRE POINT of the article. So, apparently YOU didn't read ANYTHING that YOU copied and posted.

 

7) You are an idiot, and I mean that in the kindest "you have a room temperature IQ" kind of way.

 

Edited by billsfan1959
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Posted (edited)

Just a reminder that this will never see the light of day for the average Joe.  These antibody tests will be kept out of the public's eye, as the political fallout would be catastrophic.  Imagine knowing that you had it before you lost your job and way of life forever.

 

https://news.yahoo.com/cdc-started-administering-antibody-tests-142847707.html

Edited by ScotSHO
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16 minutes ago, ScotSHO said:

Just a reminder that this will never see the light of day for the average Joe.  These antibody tests will be kept out of the public's eye, as the political fallout would be catastrophic.  Imagine knowing that you had it before you lost you job and way of life forever.

 

https://news.yahoo.com/cdc-started-administering-antibody-tests-142847707.html

 

If the virus was massively widespread, we would not be seeing a surge of cases and deaths suddenly.

 

We didn't shut down for nothing, and it would be GREAT if we shut down, controlled it, and can control it moving forward. 

 

 

41 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

And I'm sure you realize that people even in those countries live DEMONSTRABLY better lives than people in those same countries did 1000 years ago, when the population was a fraction of what it is now, yes?

 

 

This conversation is not on point in this thread but of course, we all do. Overpopulation is a problem in China, India, Pakistan, Indodesia and other areas. The best solution to overpopulation is the education of women. Not sex education, just plain education. The developing world is a constant petri dish of disease and strife because of too many bodies, and too few resources. 

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4 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

If the virus was massively widespread, we would not be seeing a surge of cases and deaths suddenly.

 

We didn't shut down for nothing, and it would be GREAT if we shut down, controlled it, and can control it moving forward. 

 

 

 

This conversation is not on point in this thread but of course, we all do. Overpopulation is a problem in China, India, Pakistan, Indodesia and other areas. The best solution to overpopulation is the education of women. Not sex education, just plain education. The developing world is a constant petri dish of disease and strife because of too many bodies, and too few resources. 

 

Are you a 

 

B

 

 

T

 

?

 

Your answers are so weird. 

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On ABC’s “This Week,” former Trump homeland security official Tom Bossert tried to shake his former colleagues out of their stupor.

“He’s looking 10 feet, and it seems a lot of our leaders are looking 10 feet in front of their bumper right now and dealing with the daily tactics and distribution issues and all these questions of these daily press briefings,” Bossert said. He practically begged Trump to look ahead, explaining, “We need to start thinking about how to message to people the extreme, extremely difficult and massive mobilization of effort and testing that’s going to come ahead of tomorrow and the next day. All through April, but also all through this summer it’s going to be a very tedious affair that requires very careful planning and very careful execution. We just don’t want people, at the end of April, to think, I’m tired of this, and we’re all going to run back into the streets.”

 

 

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2 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said:

81407690-364C-41DD-B468-1781519F8EE9.jpeg


Though I understand the point of your meme, it isn’t a cure.

 

 

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