Do you think the Bills are going to make a big run at Clowney?

[Dougy84]

17 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Judon is gonna get more than Dupree this offseason.

According to Spotrac, they have Dupree's market value at $16.6 mill and Judon at $16.3 mill. I think I like Judon better tho honestly. I also wouldn't pay Judon that. I'd go in at a $12-13 mill range. Something like 4 yrs $52 million

[Pete]

I'm looking forward to March 16, and thereafter.  It will be exciting to see what toys Josh gets, and what pieces are added to our stellar defense.  And it will be fun to see if we fill all of our holes with FA, improving a few positions, and setting us up for BPA all day, and trades for 2021 picks.  The 2020 Bills are on the cusp.  A deep playoff roster, $90 million in cap room, 9 draft picks in a deep draft.....this is the most exciting Bills offseason I can recall.   And the most optimistic I have been about the Bills since the early 90's. Let's go Beane!  Lets go Buffalo!

[atlbillsfan1975]

34 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Well, obviously you need to spend wisely. $35M on a RB and ILB is silly IMO. That’s premium money at two non-premium positions.

 

$35M for a WR1 and an EDGE guy is premium money for premium positions when you consider the salary hierarchy across the league.

Ok, let me clarify. I had to cut short my post because my 5 month old started screaming.

The similarities begin and end with making two big signings. The difference is, I know Beane isn’t signing a running back and MLB to $35 mil in contracts. Those are absolutely positions you find value at in draft picks.

I love the difference between the way the Bills and Jets approaches FA last year. Bills brought in a ton of new players and gave most of them very team friendly deals. These players were all tier 2 FA except Morse who got a typical FA contract for a tier 1 player. Even that contract though was for a position of need and a position of importance. 
Beane has left himself with a ton of opportunities for this offseason. I think he will go after a DE in FA. I don’t know if I see Beane spending $35 mil on two players outside of the organization. I could see him doing something similar to last year. One tier 1 FA and then another round of tier 2 FA’s. By the draft there is no glaring need but upgrades can be had with picks in the first 3 rounds. 

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

There not similar at all.

 

Jets offensive line was trash going into the offseason and barely addressed it outside of brining in a retired Ryan Kalil and trading for Osemele.

 

They decided to spend their cap on a somewhat older RB who sat out a year and good LB who struggles a bit in coverage.... on top of that Gase is a disaster of a HC. 

 

Using some of the cap to address two of the Bills biggest holes in WR, and edge with a couple of the top FAs wouldn't be the same thing at all.

 

Still, the difference between the Jets and Bills was coaching and Mono. 

My post wasn’t very clear. 
sorry. 

[Pete]

I'd rather pay Chris Jones or DJ Reader than Jordan.  Henry over Kroft.  Thuney over Spain.  Simmons, Ward, Harris, Jones, over Johnson.  Ngakoue, TB Shaq, over Shaq and/or Trent

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Right. I don't think anyone under contract is getting cut until we have acquired what we believe to be an upgrade. Plenty of cap, easy to be conservative until the end of May.

This ^^^ 

The days of creating holes in the roster are gone, nowadays it’s bring in people to complete first, then do the replacements at positions that need upgrades, keep good depth, then deal/cut remaining players that aren’t up to par. And do all of it in a financially responsible fashion. No more splash for the sake of splash. After seventeen years of doing the splash thing, we have finally put that failed system in the rear view mirror... there’s a new sheriff in town.

 

Go Bills!!!

Edited January 23, 2020 by Don Otreply

[Stank_Nasty]

1 hour ago, Dougy84 said:

According to Spotrac, they have Dupree's market value at $16.6 mill and Judon at $16.3 mill. I think I like Judon better tho honestly. I also wouldn't pay Judon that. I'd go in at a $12-13 mill range. Something like 4 yrs $52 million

i'd 100% rather have judon. he's been a better player over the last 3 seasons as a whole. duprees previous career high sack total was 6 and he disappeared during stretches.

 

i'd wager judon gets a bigger pay day.

[TheBeaneBandit]

Can Judon play DE full time? That's the only way the Bills would pay him imo.

[Dkollidas]

Ngakoue, not Clowney imo. 

Ngakoue splits time with Hughes in 2020. Hughes is cut after 2020 season.

 

Shaq re-signed, and Bills draft a defensive end in Round 1 or Round 2.

Murphy cut by June 1. 

[thebandit27]

49 minutes ago, Dkollidas said:

Ngakoue, not Clowney imo. 

Ngakoue splits time with Hughes in 2020. Hughes is cut after 2020 season.

 

Shaq re-signed, and Bills draft a defensive end in Round 1 or Round 2.

Murphy cut by June 1. 

Yannick likes the left side IIRC, which puts him opposite Jerry.

 

Also, if you pay him $17M AAV, he better not be a rotational guy. He had 3 more sacks than Trent The Whipping Boy, who only makes $7M AAV.

[DrDawkinstein]

On 1/22/2020 at 12:28 AM, Doc Brown said:

That's too much to invest in the D-line with contracts coming up for Milano, Dawkins, White, Poyer (possibly), Edmunds, and hopefully another FA play maker on offense. 

 

Beane used a lot of draft capital and free agency money (Oliver, Harry, Star) at D-tackle to pay a rotational guy that much in Phillips.  A lower cost option to throw into the rotation is more likely.  If we do somehow break the bank for Yannick then it's more likely we take a DE in the first few rounds then resign Shaq.  Conversely, we could resign Shaq and then draft another pass rusher if we don't decide to sign a premium pass rusher in free agency.  If I had to guess Beane does that before signing a big name DE in free agency.

 

 

Folks have already done the long math and have shown that with our Cap Situation, it's possible to sign all of that, AND extend our guys, AND still have money left over for FAs.

 

There are at least a few threads about it. Virgil made the original a while back.

[3rdand12]

9 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Ok, let me clarify. I had to cut short my post because my 5 month old started screaming.

The similarities begin and end with making two big signings. The difference is, I know Beane isn’t signing a running back and MLB to $35 mil in contracts. Those are absolutely positions you find value at in draft picks.

I love the difference between the way the Bills and Jets approaches FA last year. Bills brought in a ton of new players and gave most of them very team friendly deals. These players were all tier 2 FA except Morse who got a typical FA contract for a tier 1 player. Even that contract though was for a position of need and a position of importance. 
Beane has left himself with a ton of opportunities for this offseason. I think he will go after a DE in FA. I don’t know if I see Beane spending $35 mil on two players outside of the organization. I could see him doing something similar to last year. One tier 1 FA and then another round of tier 2 FA’s. By the draft there is no glaring need but upgrades can be had with picks in the first 3 rounds. 

My post wasn’t very clear. 
sorry. 

good post.

Hope that your Child was able to settle down and become adorable again.

 we all have our moments ; )

9 hours ago, Pete said:

I'd rather pay Chris Jones or DJ Reader than Jordan.  Henry over Kroft.  Thuney over Spain.  Simmons, Ward, Harris, Jones, over Johnson.  Ngakoue, TB Shaq, over Shaq and/or Trent

I certainly hope you are linked to pro scouting for Bills !

 Not bad Pete 

[3rdand12]

7 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

This ^^^ 

The days of creating holes in the roster are gone, nowadays it’s bring in people to complete first, then do the replacements at positions that need upgrades, keep good depth, then deal/cut remaining players that aren’t up to par. And do all of it in a financially responsible fashion. No more splash for the sake of splash. After seventeen years of doing the splash thing, we have finally put that failed system in the rear view mirror... there’s a new sheriff in town.

 

Go Bills!!!

Gosh if only my Company would function like that. : D
 But i do agree. Not only is it smart business? Bills are now in that position. Nice !

 Regardless of Fans clambering  to dump players because Contracts and stats and The Draft Position effectiveness variable that gets played .
Competition in a fair balanced  climate really does bring the best from each competitor imho

[atlbillsfan1975]

3 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

good post.

Hope that your Child was able to settle down and become adorable again.

 we all have our moments ; )

I certainly hope you are linked to pro scouting for Bills !

 Not bad Pete 

Thank you! 
This is on mom and dad, we took the little guy to Tahoe for one last trip before mom goes back to work. Funny, he can cry for hours and smile for a split second and it makes everything ok. Kids are the best!

[Socal-805]

 

 

Pass on Clowney.

 

 

[BubbaT]

No

[chongli]

12 hours ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

Can Judon play DE full time? That's the only way the Bills would pay him imo.

 

And the Bills won't be able to, since Baltimore says they will franchise him if necessary:

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ravens-to-use-franchise-tag-on-matt-judon-if-a-long-term-deal-cant-be-worked-out/

[Thurman#1]

On 1/23/2020 at 6:06 AM, thebandit27 said:

Expressed methods or not—this team lacks superstars in every way. And they don’t have time to draft and develop all of them before they have to (hopefully) start paying premium dollars to big-money positions like OT, CB, and QB.

 

My question about which being more responsible is $35M on 4 role players vs $35M on 2 superstars; is one more “responsible” than the other?

 

The same comment about bottom-of-the-roster quantity applies to last year’s total as well. The less-than-40 included no-name guys that won’t make the 53 like Cam Phillips and Lafayette Pitts. Their roster situation is massively different from last year at this time.

 

 

"Expressed methods or not - this team lacks superstars in every way."  First, it's just not true. Tre'Davious is an All-Pro. Not a Pro Bowler, an All-Pro. He's a superstar. And guys like Josh Allen, Singletary, Tremaine Edmunds and Ed Oliver could easily be superstars in the near future. But second and  more important, saying that is like saying, "Sidelines or not, that ball he caught behind the bench should've been complete." The expressed methods are the main point. They're how it's going to happen.

 

The expressed methods are how things get done while Beane and McDermott are the decision-makers. The fact that you might do it differently is entirely beside the point unless you become GM sometime soon.

 

OK, now you've explained more clearly your meaning on "responsible." Which is more responsible, two superstars or four mid-level guys? Go find a recent Super Bowl winning team which signed two superstars in FA in one year. That's your answer. Teams that win Super Bowls don't operate in the way you would like to. It's not responsible. Now how many SB-winning teams have signed four mid-level FAs in a year? All of them, multiple times. It's responsible to do so.

 

And look, you can pretend there are "massive differences" between the two situations if you feel like it, that's your business. But it's simply not true. Differences, yeah, but the differences are minor and the figures will change significantly by the time March rolls around. And you keep leaving out the difference that cuts the other way. Last year they had no core guys they wanted to re-sign to 2nd contracts while this year they could re-sign Tre'D, Dion Dawkins and several others, and Beane has indicated that signing their own guys is a higher priority. They could easily end up spending $20 mill, $30 mill or even more on making sure those guys don't get away.

Edited January 24, 2020 by Thurman#1

[thebandit27]

4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

"Expressed methods or not - this team lacks superstars in every way."  First, it's just not true. Tre'Davious is an All-Pro. Not a Pro Bowler, an All-Pro. He's a superstar. And guys like Josh Allen, Singletary, Tremaine Edmunds and Ed Oliver could easily be superstars in the near future. But second and  more important, saying that is like saying, "Sidelines or not, that ball he caught behind the bench should've been complete." The expressed methods are the main point. They're how it's going to happen.

 

The expressed methods are how things get done while Beane and McDermott are the decision-makers. The fact that you might do it differently is entirely beside the point unless you become GM sometime soon.

 

OK, now you've explained more clearly your meaning on "responsible." Which is more responsible, two superstars or four mid-level guys? Go find a recent Super Bowl winning team which signed two superstars in FA in one year. That's your answer. Teams that win Super Bowls don't operate in the way you would like to. It's not responsible. Now how many SB-winning teams have signed four mid-level FAs in a year? All of them, multiple times. It's responsible to do so.

 

And look, you can pretend there are "massive differences" between the two situations if you feel like it, that's your business. But it's simply not true. Differences, yeah, but the differences are minor and the figures will change significantly by the time March rolls around. And you keep leaving out the difference that cuts the other way. Last year they had no core guys they wanted to re-sign to 2nd contracts while this year they could re-sign Tre'D, Dion Dawkins and several others, and Beane has indicated that signing their own guys is a higher priority. They could easily end up spending $20 mill, $30 mill or even more on making sure those guys don't get away.

Yes, Tre is a superstar. That doesn’t mean that this team doesn’t sorely lack them.

 

Looking around the league, most teams have at least one. We don’t need to go through the exercise of naming them by team, as I’m sure you know that already. 
 

Point being, this team needs players that scare opponents.

 

And yes, FA Superstars win Super Bowls. Every year in fact. There’s a reason that NE gave big money to Gilmore and a stable of RBs. There’s a reason that Philly signed Alshon Jeffery and Michael Bennett. Look at this year’s finalists: SF gave huge money to Dee Ford and Tevin Coleman (and also traded for Sanders); KC gave a massive contract to Frank Clark a year after breaking the bank for Sammy. FAs fill immediate needs; why wouldn’t you want a WR1 or a top-end EDGE rusher if you can’t get one without giving up a draft pick?

 

And I’m sorry, but if you don’t think that an additional 13 players on the roster comprised of guys like Brown, Beasley, Roberts, Morse, Nsekhe, Feliciano, Long, and Yeldon—that’s 5 starters, a solid backup, and 2 specialists—is a massive difference in roster volume and quality, then I’m not sure what to say to be honest.

 

The team has $120M in space next season. They can easily spend $80M of that on FA and draft pick contracts and still have plenty of room to sign all of Tre, Dawkins, and Milano. There’s absolutely no reason to pinch pennies. They got value with quantity last year; now is the time to get high quality and raise the star talent level on the team.

[NewEra]

6 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

Yes, Tre is a superstar. That doesn’t mean that this team doesn’t sorely lack them.

 

Looking around the league, most teams have at least one. We don’t need to go through the exercise of naming them by team, as I’m sure you know that already. 
 

Point being, this team needs players that scare opponents.

 

And yes, FA Superstars win Super Bowls. Every year in fact. There’s a reason that NE gave big money to Gilmore and a stable of RBs. There’s a reason that Philly signed Alshon Jeffery and Michael Bennett. Look at this year’s finalists: SF gave huge money to Dee Ford and Tevin Coleman (and also traded for Sanders); KC gave a massive contract to Frank Clark a year after breaking the bank for Sammy. FAs fill immediate needs; why wouldn’t you want a WR1 or a top-end EDGE rusher if you can’t get one without giving up a draft pick?

 

And I’m sorry, but if you don’t think that an additional 13 players on the roster comprised of guys like Brown, Beasley, Roberts, Morse, Nsekhe, Feliciano, Long, and Yeldon—that’s 5 starters, a solid backup, and 2 specialists—is a massive difference in roster volume and quality, then I’m not sure what to say to be honest.

 

The team has $120M in space next season. They can easily spend $80M of that on FA and draft pick contracts and still have plenty of room to sign all of Tre, Dawkins, and Milano. There’s absolutely no reason to pinch pennies. They got value with quantity last year; now is the time to get high quality and raise the star talent level on the team.

This.  Super bowl victory or bust next year.  Spending big money on a position of need and importance should happen this offseason.  

[DrDawkinstein]

On 1/23/2020 at 12:06 PM, thebandit27 said:

Yannick likes the left side IIRC, which puts him opposite Jerry.

 

Also, if you pay him $17M AAV, he better not be a rotational guy. He had 3 more sacks than Trent The Whipping Boy, who only makes $7M AAV.

 

All DL are rotational in our D, and rightfully so. Keep em fresh.

 

Rotate Yannick out and Shaq in on running downs.

 

And agreed with the previous poster, but signing Yannick and re-signing Shaq you are planning long term for when Hughes is inevitably released in 2021.

 

If Beane does this right, our DL next year looks like:

 

DE: Hughes/Rookie

DT1tech: Harrison/Taylor(or Liuget)

DT3tech: JPhillips/Oliver

DE: Yannick/Shaq

 

That's a Super Bowl caliber DL if I've ever seen one.