LABILLBACKER Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 5 hours ago, njbuff said: First, the Bills need to resolve the RT situation that has been killing them for years. It killed them against Houston in the playoffs. A simple move of Ford to LG and making Conklin or D.Williams a HIGH priority in FA is all that is needed. I agree. This is not rocket science McD? Put Ford once and for all at LG next to Dawkins. Sign Conklin as your RT and Ty backs him up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjnick Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 3 hours ago, apuszczalowski said: I think the 'dime a dozen' thinking is also because of supply and demand. With the league being a copycat league, and teams having great success with heavy passing attacks, teams stopped focusing on RBs and many of them started to slide on drafts down a few rounds. With teams starting to have success again by going run heavy, your probably going to see RBs moving back up in the draft and getting taken a bit sooner. You can still get decent servicable RBs later in the draft probably because it's an easier position to pickup and learn. Get the ball and look for a hole/opening...... I don't disagree with you that much except for one thing for RBs. They wear out fast. Do you really want to spend a 1st or 2nd round pick on someone that will already be starting to decline in production by their second contract? I think you are rather looking for impact positions or spots where if you hit correctly, that player a starter on your team for a decade. Look at Gurley and Zeke (there are ppl already saying he has lost a step here in TX(live in Fort Worth)). Spend a 4th or 5th, get a player at 80-90% of the elite player and spend the money on other positions. Also, keep drafting one later in the draft to replenish the stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 If we had a Mosert type back with Singletary mmmm boy. He hit that hole and you saw a gear that no one we have has. Singletary is a good shifty in tight quarters. But I think our run blocking can spring a speedster. It would be ugly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 I read somewhere that none of the top 5 passing teams made the playoffs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 ...plenty of comments about "league trending towards....".......but when a club has a balanced attack, one where an OC can "adjust from a original game plan to what the defense is giving him quickly" been a bad thing?.....why is it "either or" according to an alleged trend?........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 2 hours ago, 32ABBA said: I can't even remember the names of the running backs that were on any of the Patriot Super Bowl teams.... It all goes in cycles. Antowain Smith was one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 5 hours ago, Nihilarian said: m A lot of teams have been running the ball with great success this season. Baltimore #1, San Fran #2, Tennessee #3, Seattle #4, Dallas, #5, Minnesota #6 Indy #7, Buffalo #8, Houston #9. The reason as to why the Ravens were #1 is because QB Lamar Jackson had 1206 rushing yards at a 6.9 YPC avg. Ravens RB Mark Ingram had 1018 rushing yards at 5.0 YPC. San Fran was #2 had three RBs and none were 1000 yard rushers. You know what kills a great pass rush on the QB? Running the ball right at them! I think this is what it is. A few years ago the passing league thing was in full force. Teams built up defenses to stop the pass. They got quicker faster LBs etc. Played more passing Ds. Then someone noticed this and decided to ram it down their throat. It works. So as teams will gear their D back to stop the run, then the passing league stuff will start over again. As far as RBs being a dime a dozen, I don't buy it. Sure you can get half way decent guys cheap. But if you want someone like Henry or Shady (when we got him) or Zeke Elliot, you gotta pay. You get what you pay for. What if the Titans put a dime a dozener Yeldon in there? Does he do what Henry does. I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 3 hours ago, reddogblitz said: I think this is what it is. A few years ago the passing league thing was in full force. Teams built up defenses to stop the pass. They got quicker faster LBs etc. Played more passing Ds. Then someone noticed this and decided to ram it down their throat. It works. So as teams will gear their D back to stop the run, then the passing league stuff will start over again. As far as RBs being a dime a dozen, I don't buy it. Sure you can get half way decent guys cheap. But if you want someone like Henry or Shady (when we got him) or Zeke Elliot, you gotta pay. You get what you pay for. What if the Titans put a dime a dozener Yeldon in there? Does he do what Henry does. I doubt it. I agree. If you at how things went this post season. The Vikings beating the Saints by running 40 rushing attempts which won the time of possession 36:56 to 27:24. The beat one of the very best passers in the league in Drew Brees who had a receiver who had 149 receptions for 1725 yards, 9 TD's this season. Sort of unreal when you think about it. Then the Vikings go to SF and that D line of theirs stuffs the Minnesota run game holding a top ten RB in Dalvin Cook to 9 carries for 18 yards, sacking Kirk Cousins 6 times. Meanwhile, in the divisional round that 49er offense runs right over that Vikings defense 47 carries for 186 yards. Two dominant running teams duke it out and the Niners pounded the Vikings. The Tennessee Titans go to New England and beat the Goat along with their #1 defense by having RB Derrick Henry, 34 rushes for 182 yards,1 TD. The Titans go to KC and get whooped by that Chiefs passing game. Tennessee had the 22nd or so defense so they really weren't a match for the Chiefs. Now the 2019 Buffalo Bills who are force feeding their young, inexperienced QB into learning to be a better passer by throwing him into the teeth of a defense when their run game could have actually helped win games... The Bills have RB Christian Wade waiting in the wings for this season. Now they need to beef up the D line and O line and find that #1 "go to" WR. I'm thinking that O line might be the bigger priority the way the Eagles, Ravens manhandled them. I kind doubt they would have had much success against San Fran this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 11 hours ago, T master said: What ever "expert" goes around saying that RB's are a dime a dozen & that the NFL is a passing league had their so called "Expert analysis" put to the test these games in these play offs ! They all say it & every year around this time (we will probably see it in the SB the team) the team that wins has the better running game of the 2 teams playing & the old adage that defense wins championships still stands true ! Heck if you want to you can take it all the way back to our beloved Bills 4 SB games, the Bills had one of the most high powered offenses of that time if not the most high powered O in the league & good D & a running game derailed them . Yesterday & leading up to the games we saw yesterday it was shown that a good running back with good field vision & good defense can dominate a game ! Jimmy G only threw 8 times in that game & i for one believe if the Titans would have stuck with their running game a bit more & not given up on it they too would have had a closer out come at the end of the game but when they got down they panicked like most do & completely abandoned their game plan that got them to where they were . Cudo's to Shannahan for recognizing what was working & riding that horse all the way to victory . I think because the 9 ers have a stronger running game & a better D than the Cheif's they will come out on top at the big game & the so called experts will once again be proven wrong that it is not just a passing league & you need more than that to be a complete team or a championship team ! Even Mahomes had more success when he him self started running the ball because the Titans at times had his passing game shut down to where he had to take off & he did which wound up giving them a few more plays to draw from to help them win that game ! If we look back at the past SB champs each had a good running game the past 2 Pats wins & the Eagles had a good running game & the 2 teams shared a running back in 2 different wins when Lagarrett Blount played for each team that won their respective SB's . So as it is with the "Experts" saying one thing & it turning out to be another, once again they seem to know as much as we the fans do, sure they watch more football than we do & have more access to tape & such but their analysis is like ours over all just a bit more informed guess at what it takes to win in the NFL !! Sure a good passing game is exciting but you need it all to win when it counts most !! Your overall concept of either/or is incorrect. It is definitely a passing league and if you throw well and defend the throw well you will win a bunch. But running backs generally wear down quickly especially if used like Derrick Henry due to the size of defenders. Also to dog the Bills ability to run the ball during the SB years is short sighted, we ran very well throughout those years- at least 2000 yards on ground each year as a team-but we did not run enough in SB games due to stupidity of first game and being behind in later games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, T master said: What ever "expert" goes around saying that RB's are a dime a dozen & that the NFL is a passing league had their so called "Expert analysis" put to the test these games in these play offs ! They all say it & every year around this time (we will probably see it in the SB the team) the team that wins has the better running game of the 2 teams playing & the old adage that defense wins championships still stands true ! Heck if you want to you can take it all the way back to our beloved Bills 4 SB games, the Bills had one of the most high powered offenses of that time if not the most high powered O in the league & good D & a running game derailed them . Yesterday & leading up to the games we saw yesterday it was shown that a good running back with good field vision & good defense can dominate a game ! Jimmy G only threw 8 times in that game & i for one believe if the Titans would have stuck with their running game a bit more & not given up on it they too would have had a closer out come at the end of the game but when they got down they panicked like most do & completely abandoned their game plan that got them to where they were . People want to pretend that getting to the Super Bowl only takes one game, and that's absolute nonsense. It takes 16 to start and then two or three more. It absolutely is a passing league. It's not a mistake that the two teams in the SB are 5th and 7th in offensive passer rating, or that the top seven teams in passer rating (Saints, Ravens, Titans, Seahawks, Chiefs, Vikes and 9ers) made the playoffs. Now look at defensive passer rating ... both SB teams are again in the top seven. The top seven in the most equivalent stat (there isn't a really good equivalent, but this is probably the best) for running, YPC, had two of the top seven teams make the playoffs, the Ravens and Titans. The Ravens, Cards, Titans, Browns, Cowboys, Panthers and Giants are the top seven. That's not murderers row. Defensive YPC? The Niners are 22nd, allowing 4.5 per carry and the Chiefs 28th, allowing 4.9 YPC. And for those who say you have to look at total running yards, you're confusing cause and effect. Teams that are ahead run more. So of course teams that are good will run more as they try to burn clock while ahead. The question is which teams run best. And YPA is the best measure we have of that. Not that having a good run game doesn't help. It absolutely does. But it's less important than a good pass game. Edited January 21, 2020 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMF2006 Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Funny how the " experts" are not GM's for teams Talking heads talk and an aerial attack is more fun to watch than 4 yds and a pile of dust Its easier to control the clock with runs and most teams have a hard time trying to pass without an effective run game. Besides all that the O line usually prefers running to passing for the simple fact that they get to hit versus getting pushed around in the passing game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Passing league, running league, blah blah blah, it’s both. The deal is this, You have to win at line of scrimmage with both O & D lines. When the O line dominates the run/pass game works, when the D line dominates, the defensive scheme works, when these two things happen you win the game the vast majority of the time. It’s the core of your team. Fix the right tackle situation, get an edge rusher, and a WR or two after that get a RB. Jmo... Go Bills!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 San Fran just showed that RBs are a Dime a Dozen. Raheem Mosert 27 years old has had this list of teams Eagles (2015) Dolphins (2015) Ravens (2015) Browns (2015) Jets (2016) Bears (2016) San Fran (2016-present) went 29 carries 220 yards 4 TDs 2 tgts 2 rec 6 yards So want to talk dime a dozen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabel Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) It ebbs and flows each season as teams catch up to the current trends. For what it's worth, out of the top ten rushing teams this season, seven of them went to the playoffs. Niners just made the Super Bowl after throwing it a whopping eight times in the NFC Championship game. I guess that shows you that you don't need a QB to throw for 350 yards a game. Same as it's always been, a balanced attack. A strong run game that opens up your passing attack with play action. There are only so many concepts and plays to run. In case anyone was wondering, here are the top ten rushing teams for 2019... Rank - Team - Rushing Total 1. Ravens - 3296 2. 49ers - 2305 3. Titans - 2223 4. Seahawks - 2200 5. Cowboys - 2153 6. Vikings - 2133 7. Colts - 2130 8. Bills - 2054 9. Texans - 2009 10. Cardinals - 1990 Edited January 21, 2020 by blacklabel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, blacklabel said: It ebbs and flows each season as teams catch up to the current trends. For what it's worth, out of the top ten rushing teams this season, seven of them went to the playoffs. Niners just made the Super Bowl after throwing it a whopping eight times in the NFC Championship game. I guess that shows you that you don't need a QB to throw for 350 yards a game. Same as it's always been, a balanced attack. A strong run game that opens up your passing attack with play action. There are only so many concepts and plays to run. In case anyone was wondering, here are the top ten rushing teams for 2019... Rank - Team - Rushing Total 1. Ravens - 3296 2. 49ers - 2305 3. Titans - 2223 4. Seahawks - 2200 5. Cowboys - 2153 6. Vikings - 2133 7. Colts - 2130 8. Bills - 2054 9. Texans - 2009 10. Cardinals - 1990 The myth again. Playaction will work without a strong run game actually. and Yards is really not a good way to look at Run Offenses, specially when you are not showing attempts. Good teams can run, that has never been in debate, but Run numbers are inflated because when good teams get up in points they close the game down by running. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 19 hours ago, Chaos said: He was an excellent third round draft pick. He is not in the top 15 RBs in the league. Without something along the lines of the niners oline and scheme, the Bills can't duplicate the niners running attack. Next year it is more likely that Josh Allen duplicates L. Jacksons 2019 numbers than the Bills duplicate the niners 2019 rushing numbers . No point in pretending either is happening. This seems like an insane premise. The Bills averaged 128 yards rushing per game to the 49ers 144. Josh Allen had 29 TDs to Jackson's 43. We need to rush the ball like 3-4 times more per game with our running backs to get to what the 49ers did this year. Allen needs to improve by a massive amount. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 4 hours ago, jrober38 said: This seems like an insane premise. The Bills averaged 128 yards rushing per game to the 49ers 144. Josh Allen had 29 TDs to Jackson's 43. We need to rush the ball like 3-4 times more per game with our running backs to get to what the 49ers did this year. Allen needs to improve by a massive amount. Deduct Allen’s and Jimmy Gs rushing yards. Then compare running attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 True 4 phase running backs (Ability to catch passes, pass block, run between the tackles and run outside in space) are true elite weapons that add a dynamic to any offense. There aren't too many backs that can be true 3 down backs effective in all 4 phases of being a RB. But the Drop-off between a good running back and an average one isn't that big. So RB is very much a feast or famine type position. Elite players are worth every penny whereas good players don't provide the value needed over average players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 6 hours ago, MAJBobby said: San Fran just showed that RBs are a Dime a Dozen. Raheem Mosert 27 years old has had this list of teams Eagles (2015) Dolphins (2015) Ravens (2015) Browns (2015) Jets (2016) Bears (2016) San Fran (2016-present) went 29 carries 220 yards 4 TDs 2 tgts 2 rec 6 yards So want to talk dime a dozen ...as archaic as it sounds, "building from the ball out" still works.....Niners O Line is stout....and I believe Lynch has 3 or 4 1st rounders on the DL which makes a huge difference for their DB's.....LB's as well........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 On 1/20/2020 at 9:10 AM, jrober38 said: The Bills have all the pieces in place to replicate what San Fran is doing. With a stronger commitment to running the ball, and a continued effort to keep the defense as one of the best in the NFL the Bills could be an elite football team next year. I think they need to ask Allen to do a lot less, run the ball more with their backs, and continue to upgrade both lines. I agree except for the part asking Allen to do a lot less. He needs to do more, at least do what he's doing now, but better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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