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Running Backs A Dime a Dozen & Is It a Passing League ?


T master

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1 hour ago, T master said:

What ever "expert" goes around saying that RB's are a dime a dozen & that the NFL is a passing league had their so called "Expert analysis" put to the test these games in these play offs ! 

 

They all say it & every year around this time  (we will probably see it in the SB the team) the team that wins has the better running game of the 2 teams playing & the old adage that defense wins championships still stands true ! Heck if you want to you can take it all the way back to our beloved Bills 4 SB games, the Bills had one of the most high powered offenses of that time if not the most high powered O in the league & good D & a running game derailed them .

 

Yesterday & leading up to the games we saw yesterday it was shown that a good running back with good field vision & good defense can dominate a game ! Jimmy G only threw 8 times in that game & i for one believe if the Titans would have stuck with their running game a bit more & not given up on it they too would have had a closer out come at the end of the game but when they got down they panicked like most do & completely abandoned their game plan that got them to where they were .

 

Cudo's to Shannahan for recognizing what was working & riding that horse all the way to victory . I think because the 9 ers have a stronger running game & a better D than the Cheif's they will come out on top at the big game & the so called experts will once again be proven wrong that it is not just a passing league & you need more than that to be a complete team or a championship team ! 

 

Even Mahomes had more success when he him self started running the ball because the Titans at times had his passing game shut down to where he had to take off & he did which wound up giving them a few more plays to draw from to help them win that game ! 

 

If we look back at the past SB champs each had a good running game the past 2 Pats wins & the Eagles had a good running game & the 2 teams shared a running back in 2 different wins when Lagarrett Blount played for each team that won their respective SB's .

 

So as it is with the "Experts" saying one thing & it turning out to be another, once again they seem to know as much as we the fans do, sure they watch more football than we do & have more access to tape & such but their analysis is like ours over all just a bit more informed guess at what it takes to win in the NFL !! Sure a good passing game is exciting but you need it all to win when it counts most !! 

I’m not sure what you were watching yesterday afternoon, but I watched the 49ers dominate the NFC championship game with an undrafted RB who is with his SEVENTH NFL team.  If any game supports the idea that running backs are a dime a dozen, it was that one.

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19 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Aaron Rodgers 21 of 39 for 326, 2 TD. WOW REALLY? A 300 yard passer, throwing 39 times... that lost!

 

Jimmy Garoppolo 6 of 8 for 77 yards WTF? and they won 37 to 20? But, but it's a passing league? Niners RB Raheem Mostert 29 carries for 220 yards

 

As others have put it, the Bills need more pieces, they need a better offensive line at certain positions. They need some better WRs, and a more dedicated OC to actually running the ball when needed. 

 

Mostert is only 5'10'' 205 lbs, so you don't need a Derrick Henry monster of a RB. The 49ers had three RBs on their roster and none were 1000 yard rushers in 2019. You just need to put some really good talent in front of him to block properly. That means using some first and second round picks on the O line. Utilizing the right run scheme too.

It never fails......  Yep an incredible performance on the ground and they kept scoring & scoring, forcing turnovers & 27-0 at half.

 

However during the Regular season they also had 4-300 yard passing games......  Something the Bills have had 0 in the 50 games McD has coached.....

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19 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Aaron Rodgers 21 of 39 for 326, 2 TD. WOW REALLY? A 300 yard passer, throwing 39 times... that lost!

 

Jimmy Garoppolo 6 of 8 for 77 yards WTF? and they won 37 to 20? But, but it's a passing league? Niners RB Raheem Mostert 29 carries for 220 yards

 

As others have put it, the Bills need more pieces, they need a better offensive line at certain positions. They need some better WRs, and a more dedicated OC to actually running the ball when needed. 

 

Mostert is only 5'10'' 205 lbs, so you don't need a Derrick Henry monster of a RB. The 49ers had three RBs on their roster and none were 1000 yard rushers in 2019. You just need to put some really good talent in front of him to block properly. That means using some first and second round picks on the O line. Utilizing the right run scheme too.

 

I mean the 49ers would have made the 1970's Bills happy back when they had OJ seeing only 8 passes thrown...

 

I think at the end of the day its specific to each team you are up against and what you feel the best way to beat them is.  GB had 0 answers for stopping the 49ers on he ground and they didn't have any real reason to throw the ball.

 

Passing has been down since it peaked a few years ago recently with more teams focusing on running the ball and using uptempo to keep nickel personnel on the field when they have the advantage and running it against them repeatedly.  So yes it is still a passing league for the most part but teams are figuring out how to use that to their advantage by running the ball very effectively due to many of the changes that have been made by a lot of teams personnel wise.

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1 minute ago, mannc said:

I’m not sure what you were watching yesterday afternoon, but I watched the 49ers dominate the NFC championship game with an undrafted RB who is with his SEVENTH NFL team.  If any game supports the idea that running backs are a dime a dozen, it was that one.

I agree. What was more important was the scheme and the work of the oline. Mostert ran through a ton of gaping holes. He had the speed and shiftiness to finish the job, but 85% of the credit has to go to the oline.

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3 minutes ago, mannc said:

I’m not sure what you were watching yesterday afternoon, but I watched the 49ers dominate the NFC championship game with an undrafted RB who is with his SEVENTH NFL team.  If any game supports the idea that running backs are a dime a dozen, it was that one.

 

It also supports what Shanahan said...that he is the perfect back for HIS SYSTEM.  A back may be great for a specific system but then suck in others.  This is more common than you think and why some players only seemingly succeed in one system.

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1 minute ago, matter2003 said:

 

It also supports what Shanahan said...that he is the perfect back for HIS SYSTEM.  A back may be great for a specific system but then suck in others.  This is more common than you think and why some players only seemingly succeed in one system.

I agree.  And it also proves that there is no need to burn a first round draft pick on a RB.  The “perfect back” can be found anywhere in the draft or in free agency.

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Running Backs are a dime a dozen... It is a passing league.. More like a balanced attack league.

 

The 49ers use a running back by committee, so even though they run a lot, are any of them elite?  The 49ers RB's run HARD and punish.  Their whole team MAULS the defense and blocks very efficiently.  Great schemes.

 

Look at the trend and how the 'elite' offenses are breaking defenses.  IMO, it really is starting to come down to 1 position... Tight End. Multiple TE's actually.  When you can put the SAME offense on the field and you don't know if they are going to pass or run, the advantage swings greatly into the offense's favor.

 

Kittle, Kelce, Andrews.. great blockers and receivers.  Those mismatches are what make those offenses run.

 

Which Buffalo has always been behind the curve on. :(

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49 minutes ago, T master said:

 

But i ask what ever happened to getting into the rhythm of the game as far as the RB is concerned ? Even Derrick Henry said in a interview that he gets stronger as the game goes on & when they quit using him yesterday game over !!

 

I remember when most all the RB's would show that as the game progressed they would get in that groove & their game would come to them or they would see the field or openings better but given todays RB by committee thing they can't get into any kind of groove or rhythm of the game to where Mostert was there & when the Titans stopped running it they took getting in the groove away from Henry if that makes sense at all ...

 

Yeah, I thought the Titans got too fancy on offense yesterday too.  They hit some good passes early b/c KC was keying on Henry but that seemed to pull them away from the strategy of feeding him.  

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1 hour ago, T master said:

What ever "expert" goes around saying that RB's are a dime a dozen & that the NFL is a passing league had their so called "Expert analysis" put to the test these games in these play offs ! 

 

They all say it & every year around this time  (we will probably see it in the SB the team) the team that wins has the better running game of the 2 teams playing & the old adage that defense wins championships still stands true ! Heck if you want to you can take it all the way back to our beloved Bills 4 SB games, the Bills had one of the most high powered offenses of that time if not the most high powered O in the league & good D & a running game derailed them .

 

Yesterday & leading up to the games we saw yesterday it was shown that a good running back with good field vision & good defense can dominate a game ! Jimmy G only threw 8 times in that game & i for one believe if the Titans would have stuck with their running game a bit more & not given up on it they too would have had a closer out come at the end of the game but when they got down they panicked like most do & completely abandoned their game plan that got them to where they were .

 

Cudo's to Shannahan for recognizing what was working & riding that horse all the way to victory . I think because the 9 ers have a stronger running game & a better D than the Cheif's they will come out on top at the big game & the so called experts will once again be proven wrong that it is not just a passing league & you need more than that to be a complete team or a championship team ! 

 

Even Mahomes had more success when he him self started running the ball because the Titans at times had his passing game shut down to where he had to take off & he did which wound up giving them a few more plays to draw from to help them win that game ! 

 

If we look back at the past SB champs each had a good running game the past 2 Pats wins & the Eagles had a good running game & the 2 teams shared a running back in 2 different wins when Lagarrett Blount played for each team that won their respective SB's .

 

So as it is with the "Experts" saying one thing & it turning out to be another, once again they seem to know as much as we the fans do, sure they watch more football than we do & have more access to tape & such but their analysis is like ours over all just a bit more informed guess at what it takes to win in the NFL !! Sure a good passing game is exciting but you need it all to win when it counts most !! 

Good stuff and good points;  however, Chiefs have an ace in the hole.  They have a great running game and his name is Mahomes.  Also, this guy can throw long and accurate, even while being chased.  He buys time with his scrabbles, ala Tarkenton and Flutie but with turbo power.  I think Reid knows how to counter a shadow on him.  It becomes 11 vs 10, or 6 play makers against 5 defenders and a lot of open space between LOS and GL.  Advantage KC.  I say KC wins 32-24.  Reid gets his overdue Lombardi.  

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18 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

There’s only so many shanahans to go around. I can’t even think of a back who was not amazing in the zone blocking run scheme they use. If it was easy to do I’m sure more teams would copy. The offensive line doesn’t need to be high picks, they can run that scheme with most linemen after enough practice. It’s really impressive. 

The Minnesota Vikings with Dalvin Cook use that zone blocking scheme 66% of the time. (Ex Denver HC Gary Kubiak is the assistant HC at Minnesota. He also ran the scheme in Baltimore 2014.) 

 

70.3% of Green Bay's run game is inside, outside zone concepts. The 49ers employ a zone scheme on 49% of their run plays. Baltimore uses the zone 55% of the time.

 

Zone blocking is used to some degree by all 32 teams and at least half the time by all of them. 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28353469/the-secret-nfl-best-rushing-teams-why-zone-blocking-here-stay

 

It really is about building the line right, finding the right RB and having instilled discipline by the players to run it...without penalties. The 2019 Buffalo Bills had the right RB! 

 

Believe it or not Buffalo Bills RB Devin Singletary averaged 5.1 yards per carry this season. Which, BTW, was the same YPC as Derrick Henry had. The difference was the Titans ran Henry 303 times and the Bills ran Singletary 151 times. Gore got more carries with 166 and he averaged 3.6 yards per carry. Gore was basically almost useless the latter part of the season. 

 

Buffalo was also 27th overall in penalties in 2019. 

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33 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

I mean the 49ers would have made the 1970's Bills happy back when they had OJ seeing only 8 passes thrown...

 

I think at the end of the day its specific to each team you are up against and what you feel the best way to beat them is.  GB had 0 answers for stopping the 49ers on he ground and they didn't have any real reason to throw the ball.

 

Passing has been down since it peaked a few years ago recently with more teams focusing on running the ball and using uptempo to keep nickel personnel on the field when they have the advantage and running it against them repeatedly.  So yes it is still a passing league for the most part but teams are figuring out how to use that to their advantage by running the ball very effectively due to many of the changes that have been made by a lot of teams personnel wise.

A lot of teams have been running the ball with great success this season. Baltimore #1, San Fran #2, Tennessee #3, Seattle #4, Dallas, #5, Minnesota #6 Indy #7, Buffalo #8, Houston #9.

 

The reason as to why the Ravens were #1 is because QB Lamar Jackson had 1206 rushing yards at a 6.9 YPC avg. Ravens RB Mark Ingram had 1018 rushing yards at 5.0 YPC. 

 

San Fran was #2 had three RBs and none were 1000 yard rushers. 

 

You know what kills a great pass rush on the QB? Running the ball right at them! 

 

 

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I don't think any of these games proved anything and may contradict each other.

 

SF won because of their very good defence and a very good day on the ground with a RB thats been bounced around the league and went undrafted.

 

KC won because of their QB Mahommes and a very good passing game, beating a team that got to where it was at by having a very good running game and solid defence.

 

These playoffs have shown that anything can work if your players and coaching staff are good. Twice in these playoffs, a team has won a game with a QB throwing for less then 100 yards. Teams with really good RBs/running games have lost in these playoffs (Ravens and Titans).

 

The one factor that was true yesterday is that you need to be able to score points and not take your foot off the gas. 49ers had 3+ TD lead at half time and GB came back to make it a closer game in the 2nd half. The Titans had an early 2 score lead at the beginning that quickly changed before half time and then KC just took over. Scoring 20 points on offence wasn't going to get you a win yesterday.......

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1 hour ago, hjnick said:

Running Backs are a dime a dozen... It is a passing league.. More like a balanced attack league.

 

The 49ers use a running back by committee, so even though they run a lot, are any of them elite?  The 49ers RB's run HARD and punish.  Their whole team MAULS the defense and blocks very efficiently.  Great schemes.

 

Look at the trend and how the 'elite' offenses are breaking defenses.  IMO, it really is starting to come down to 1 position... Tight End. Multiple TE's actually.  When you can put the SAME offense on the field and you don't know if they are going to pass or run, the advantage swings greatly into the offense's favor.

 

Kittle, Kelce, Andrews.. great blockers and receivers.  Those mismatches are what make those offenses run.

 

Which Buffalo has always been behind the curve on. :(

I think the 'dime a dozen' thinking is also because of supply and demand. With the league being a copycat league, and teams having great success with heavy passing attacks, teams stopped focusing on RBs and many of them started to slide on drafts down a few rounds. With teams starting to have success again by going run heavy, your probably going to see RBs moving back up in the draft and getting taken a bit sooner. You can still get decent servicable RBs later in the draft probably because it's an easier position to pickup and learn. Get the ball and look for a hole/opening......

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3 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

Aaron Rodgers 21 of 39 for 326, 2 TD. WOW REALLY? A 300 yard passer, throwing 39 times... that lost!

 

Jimmy Garoppolo 6 of 8 for 77 yards WTF? and they won 37 to 20? But, but it's a passing league? Niners RB Raheem Mostert 29 carries for 220 yards

 

As others have put it, the Bills need more pieces, they need a better offensive line at certain positions. They need some better WRs, and a more dedicated OC to actually running the ball when needed. 

 

Mostert is only 5'10'' 205 lbs, so you don't need a Derrick Henry monster of a RB. The 49ers had three RBs on their roster and none were 1000 yard rushers in 2019. You just need to put some really good talent in front of him to block properly. That means using some first and second round picks on the O line. Utilizing the right run scheme too.

 

Mostert is probably the fastest RB in the league.  His line gave him space but his legs allowed him to outrun the defenders in the gaps.  Yes he's very different from Henry.  He's also different from Singletary who is very good but doesn't have Mostert's speed.  Mostert was a track guy first at Purdue and Big Ten 60m champ his senior year. 

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4 hours ago, jrober38 said:

The Bills have all the pieces in place to replicate what San Fran is doing.

 

With a stronger commitment to running the ball, and a continued effort to keep the defense as one of the best in the NFL the Bills could be an elite football team next year.

 

I think they need to ask Allen to do a lot less, run the ball more with their backs, and continue to upgrade both lines. 

No we don't. We don't have any semblance of the zone blocking scheme the niners run, and no coach experienced with it. We don't have kittle and we don't have nearly the RB stable the niners roll with.   

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2 minutes ago, Chaos said:

No we don't. We don't have any semblance of the zone blocking scheme the niners run, and no coach experienced with it. We don't have kittle and we don't have nearly the RB stable the niners roll with.   

 

I think Devin Singletary is better than any of their backs.

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7 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I think Devin Singletary is better than any of their backs.

He was an excellent third round draft pick.  He is not in the top 15 RBs in the league. Without something along the lines of the niners oline and scheme, the Bills can't duplicate the niners running attack.   Next year it is more likely that Josh Allen duplicates L. Jacksons 2019 numbers than the Bills duplicate the niners 2019 rushing numbers .  No point in pretending either is happening. 

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