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24 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Tre is a very good cornerback, but he is not a shutdown guy.  That term gets thrown around too loosely these days.  The only DB in the league that's close to it is Gilmore.

Gilmore gets beat as much as Tre and tre didn't even give up a regular season TD

Just now, Chicken Boo said:

 

You're in for a surprise.

We will see. I've watched him for 3 years and I don't see 4.38 speed

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1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Tre is a very good cornerback, but he is not a shutdown guy.  That term gets thrown around too loosely these days.  The only DB in the league that's close to it is Gilmore.


gilmore and Tre are the two best corners in the game. I’m not sure it matters if we call anyone “shut down.” But if we can put two “elite” guys out there at CB, really opens up a lot of what we can do on D. 

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On 1/14/2020 at 4:10 PM, Logic said:

I'd love for the Shenault supporters to share with me what it is they love about him so much.

I admittedly haven't watched him all that much, but everyone seems to say that his best traits are his run-after-catch ability and his versatility, that he can play outside, slot, and in the backfield. Well, I've seen those types of players in the NFL before: Percy Harvin, Cordarelle Patterson, Sammy Watkins. I don't want a 'tweener who does most of his damage AFTER he catches the ball. I want a guy who does his damage by running sick routes and getting open and high-pointing jump balls and scoring receiving touchdowns. A player like Shenault sounds all good and well for a team that already HAS dominant outside receivers -- the Bills do not.

Can Shenault be a true number 1 receiver in the NFL? Or is he a guy you have to scheme up and figure out creative ways to get the ball in his hands? I want a true wide receiver that can dominate AS A WIDE RECEIVER. Is Shenault that?

As I said, I haven't watched him a ton. I'm mostly going off the scouting reports I've read and the discussion of him by various draft analysts and by fans who want the Bills to draft him. What am I missing with this guy?

Consider the draft breakdown tape of Bryan Edmunds. 
 

@thebandit27 I wonder what your thoughts on him are. Looks like a good route runner and a hell of a competitor. 
 

OMFG just remembered there was a cover 1 article on him.

https://www.cover1.net/bryan-edwards-most-underrated-receiver-in-the-nation-nfl-draft/

 

Edited by YattaOkasan
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On 1/14/2020 at 9:44 AM, badassgixxer05 said:

whats sick, is there are WR's missing from that top 15 that have the possibility of being #1s and will be there in later rounds. Were going to get a good one. Fingers crossed its the right good one this time around. 

Michael Pittman Jr. is one of those missing. I've seen him on two top 5 wr lists for upcoming draft, didn't even get mentioned among the 20 wrs in this article.

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8 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

He is a physical receiver with great hands and very good acceleration.  A more dynamic Deebo Samuel, if you like what he's done so far.

 

Every Isaiah McKenzie run you saw this year would be a Shenault run in 2020.  A guy with ability to take a quick slant or a WR screen to the house, while also possessing the speed to take the top off a defense.

 

At 6'2" 220lbs, running a 4.38 40, what isn't there to like?  He's built for this team and this offense.

Things to consider:  He doesn't play like an X receiver, he plays best as a slot like receiver underneath and in space.  That is a pro or con depending on what you want and who you want on the field.  His role on the Bills would be Isaiah McKenzie sweep pass, and playing slot like Beasley, something that they aren't missing any effectiveness from in the Offense in my opinion.  Would he be better than both of them? Probably, although whether he navigates space as well as Beasley against NFL coverages or would have the same type of understanding with Allen is not certain.  But that's where I would see him most effective for the Bills, taking a lot of snaps from Beasley still leaving Brown outside and who at No. 3?  If they try putting him outside, I think he struggles on this team.  The fact that they could line him up all over and not exclusively on the outside or inside is nice, but I just don't see him as a threat on the outside against NFL secondaries without improving his abilities on the deep ball.  The Bills would be better suited for a  good size guy that has excellent ball skills, adjust his body and positioning better than defenders even if that player is not as fast and doesn't have the slot abilities.  We also need a guy that is a good to great blocker at WR and is physical - having that may lead to more big plays in the run game and screen game.

 

Things to not like:  He may have speed, but his ability to track the ball and adjust is a negative; he also struggles with making catches in traffic, especially on deep throws.  So that speed to run deep is somewhat tempered by his ability to finish the play on deep throws that may require some adjustment and positioning against defenders.  He also isn't a very good blocker and doesn't show consistent effort when the play isn't coming his way.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Ayjent said:

Things to consider:  He doesn't play like an X receiver, he plays best as a slot like receiver underneath and in space.  That is a pro or con depending on what you want and who you want on the field.  His role on the Bills would be Isaiah McKenzie sweep pass, and playing slot like Beasley, something that they aren't missing any effectiveness from in the Offense in my opinion.  Would he be better than both of them? Probably, although whether he navigates space as well as Beasley against NFL coverages or would have the same type of understanding with Allen is not certain.  But that's where I would see him most effective for the Bills, taking a lot of snaps from Beasley still leaving Brown outside and who at No. 3?  If they try putting him outside, I think he struggles on this team.  The fact that they could line him up all over and not exclusively on the outside or inside is nice, but I just don't see him as a threat on the outside against NFL secondaries without improving his abilities on the deep ball.  The Bills would be better suited for a  good size guy that has excellent ball skills, adjust his body and positioning better than defenders even if that player is not as fast and doesn't have the slot abilities.  We also need a guy that is a good to great blocker at WR and is physical - having that may lead to more big plays in the run game and screen game.

 

Things to not like:  He may have speed, but his ability to track the ball and adjust is a negative; he also struggles with making catches in traffic, especially on deep throws.  So that speed to run deep is somewhat tempered by his ability to finish the play on deep throws that may require some adjustment and positioning against defenders.  He also isn't a very good blocker and doesn't show consistent effort when the play isn't coming his way.

 

 

That's what scares me most about this guy.  I'm not exactly a resident expert, but that's the overall impression I'm left with.  You summed up how I feel.  Just like some of the older QB's are starting to be overtaken by the young gun slingers.  Who's the next AJ Green in this draft?  I don't say Julio, because he's too rare. 

Edited by Allen2Moulds
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3 hours ago, Ayjent said:

Things to consider:  He doesn't play like an X receiver, he plays best as a slot like receiver underneath and in space.  That is a pro or con depending on what you want and who you want on the field.  His role on the Bills would be Isaiah McKenzie sweep pass, and playing slot like Beasley, something that they aren't missing any effectiveness from in the Offense in my opinion.  Would he be better than both of them? Probably, although whether he navigates space as well as Beasley against NFL coverages or would have the same type of understanding with Allen is not certain.  But that's where I would see him most effective for the Bills, taking a lot of snaps from Beasley still leaving Brown outside and who at No. 3?  If they try putting him outside, I think he struggles on this team.  The fact that they could line him up all over and not exclusively on the outside or inside is nice, but I just don't see him as a threat on the outside against NFL secondaries without improving his abilities on the deep ball.  The Bills would be better suited for a  good size guy that has excellent ball skills, adjust his body and positioning better than defenders even if that player is not as fast and doesn't have the slot abilities.  We also need a guy that is a good to great blocker at WR and is physical - having that may lead to more big plays in the run game and screen game.

 

Things to not like:  He may have speed, but his ability to track the ball and adjust is a negative; he also struggles with making catches in traffic, especially on deep throws.  So that speed to run deep is somewhat tempered by his ability to finish the play on deep throws that may require some adjustment and positioning against defenders.  He also isn't a very good blocker and doesn't show consistent effort when the play isn't coming his way.

 

 

 

I disagree on all counts.  Over-evaluating this position is what led many of you to make false assumptions about Metcalf last year and thinking we were just fine with Brown and Beasley going into the season.

 

No offense, but after last year I trust this board about as far as I can throw one of you, when it comes to evaluating WR talent. 

 

I know what I see and truth is, there's a good chance Laviska won't be there when the Bills make their selection. 

Edited by Chicken Boo
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On 1/14/2020 at 8:19 PM, thebandit27 said:

Boy I’m shocked at all of the Laviska love. I mean, he’s talented, but he’s about 75% the player that Sammy Watkins was coming out of Clemson...and the way people rage hate Watkins ‘round these parts, I’m astonished that Shenault is so highly regarded.

 

 

Well all the love comes from him at #22...if we were picking 4th like before, maybe it would be a little different

12 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Tre is a very good cornerback, but he is not a shutdown guy.  That term gets thrown around too loosely these days.  The only DB in the league that's close to it is Gilmore.

 

 

You are so wrong. Tre IS  shutdown corner. He is right up there with Gilmore

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On 1/14/2020 at 8:19 PM, thebandit27 said:

Boy I’m shocked at all of the Laviska love. I mean, he’s talented, but he’s about 75% the player that Sammy Watkins was coming out of Clemson...and the way people rage hate Watkins ‘round these parts, I’m astonished that Shenault is so highly regarded.

I think he's more physical when it comes to fighting for a catch, coming back to the ball, etc. which our group has been sorely lacking for a while now.

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18 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

I disagree on all counts.  Over-evaluating this position is what led many of you to make false assumptions about Metcalf last year and thinking we were just fine with Brown and Beasley going into the season.

 

No offense, but after last year I trust this board about as far as I can throw one of you, when it comes to evaluating WR talent. 

 

I know what I see and truth is, there's a good chance Laviska won't be there when the Bills make their selection. 

I was on the Metcalf train last year, but view Metcalf as a completely different style player.  I thought he would've been a perfect match for Josh's skill set.  I think that with a bigger guy, Josh would be more willing to throw a 50/50 ball, instead of overthrowing guys by 10 yds.  

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20 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

I disagree on all counts.  Over-evaluating this position is what led many of you to make false assumptions about Metcalf last year and thinking we were just fine with Brown and Beasley going into the season.

 

No offense, but after last year I trust this board about as far as I can throw one of you, when it comes to evaluating WR talent. 

 

I know what I see and truth is, there's a good chance Laviska won't be there when the Bills make their selection. 

I’ve watched game snaps (every snap of the game the player was in) from every game I could find on Shenault.  Everything I’m pointing out is in the game footage.  I didn’t say he couldn’t be a good player, but I was just pointing out what concerns me about his fit on the team and where I see flaws in his game and where the strengths were.  People may differ in opinion, but I was not impressed on his deep routes where there was close coverage.  He didn’t win or finish the play as often as you’d like to see and his adjustment to off target passes is in need of a lot of improvement if he is going to be an outside receiver, especially with a QB like Josh and weather conditions like Buffalo.  He did draw flags though.  This board is full of opinions and some are going to agree some are going to disagree.  My opinion is pretty informed based off watching him play. That’s all I have to go on and honestly I’m surprised how many people are on the train to draft him after watching him play.

 

 

What is it that impresses?  His ability to run a deep in or his ability to settle into space under zone coverage?  That’s about the best things I’ve seen him do prior to the catch.  He doesn’t engage his blocks very long if he even engages them, and can’t be counted on to hold a block for any duration. 

 

This the most impressive game, but it’s not all snaps

His two biggest plays were a nice run after catch on a slant/curl route he took to the house, and an on the money throw down the sideline against a cover two zone with the safety late in coming over.  But you see the same things in tight coverage he doesn’t win the ball, and his failure to position and adjust to the ball on a couple of throws where coverage was near allowed the pass breakup.  In the NFL that coverage is going to be a lot more consistent and physical, especially outside where the best DBs will be lined up against him. That’s why I’m saying he would thrive in a slot position in the nfl, but not an X.

 

I wanted an upgrade at WR last year, and this year is just a great year for the position.  I just happen to think there are better options for the Bills than Shenault, and that Shenault is a 2nd -3rd Round talent that is projecting as a 1st in a lot of mocks.  His stock may rise or fall on his combine, but I think the best assessments of talent are usually done in January, unless major red flags come out in the combine. Just because DK Metcalf happened to have a pretty good year probably says a lot about his skill set being a good fit with the team and Wilson as his QB.  WR is so dependent on so many other players doing their jobs, fit is always a good part of success when it comes to the position.  That’s why I’m just not interested in Shenault unless Beasley isn’t in the Bills’ plans for the future.  If that’s the case I can get on that train.  They can upgrade from Beasley, but it doesn’t move the needle that much on improving the need for a big outside threat. 

Edited by Ayjent
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On 1/16/2020 at 9:21 PM, Chicken Boo said:

 

Tre is a very good cornerback, but he is not a shutdown guy.  That term gets thrown around too loosely these days.  The only DB in the league that's close to it is Gilmore.


Imagine thinking this is true ?
 

Both corners had one close to bad game all season long ??‍♂️

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I was high on Shenault but if he doesn’t block on running plays forget it, I’m out.  That’s really just a deal breaker for me.


Where are these blocking questions coming from ?   I agree with you if true.   I know my man Tee Higgins can do both.  

Edited by Teddy KGB
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On 1/17/2020 at 6:46 AM, Ayjent said:

Things to consider:  He doesn't play like an X receiver, he plays best as a slot like receiver underneath and in space.  That is a pro or con depending on what you want and who you want on the field.  His role on the Bills would be Isaiah McKenzie sweep pass, and playing slot like Beasley, something that they aren't missing any effectiveness from in the Offense in my opinion.  Would he be better than both of them? Probably, although whether he navigates space as well as Beasley against NFL coverages or would have the same type of understanding with Allen is not certain.  But that's where I would see him most effective for the Bills, taking a lot of snaps from Beasley still leaving Brown outside and who at No. 3?  If they try putting him outside, I think he struggles on this team.  The fact that they could line him up all over and not exclusively on the outside or inside is nice, but I just don't see him as a threat on the outside against NFL secondaries without improving his abilities on the deep ball.  The Bills would be better suited for a  good size guy that has excellent ball skills, adjust his body and positioning better than defenders even if that player is not as fast and doesn't have the slot abilities.  We also need a guy that is a good to great blocker at WR and is physical - having that may lead to more big plays in the run game and screen game.

 

Things to not like:  He may have speed, but his ability to track the ball and adjust is a negative; he also struggles with making catches in traffic, especially on deep throws.  So that speed to run deep is somewhat tempered by his ability to finish the play on deep throws that may require some adjustment and positioning against defenders.  He also isn't a very good blocker and doesn't show consistent effort when the play isn't coming his way.

 

 

I think that's an over simplification of him as a wr.  He played all over the formation.  I'm not a scout but from what I read he is exactly what you want from an X.  He is what people wanted Cordelle Patterson to become. 

 

I dont see them getting Jeudy or Lamb, outside of them every prospect is going to have something.  For me he is too unique not to take a shot with. 

 

Worst case scenario he is Cordelle Patterson. He can replace Robert's on the roster, also add a big play dimension to the offense and replace McKenzie.  2 roster spots just opened up else where.  

 

I think Shenault is going to be very good.  I like his after the catch running ability.  Given the opportunity to learn a position he could really flourish.  This time of year I learn height weight speed.  Barring prerequisite protection.  Round 1 I'm looking for the freakiest dudes available.

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