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Buzzergate update (Again) Update: Beltran, Cora, Hinch & Luhnow (fired) for illegale sign stealing - compare to NFL & The Patsies


Reed83HOF

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I think alot of the differences between this and the NFL/Pats is the sport itself. baseball is viewed as a sport where many of the fans are purists and want to keep it traditional and old school. Technology is pushed aside to keep things more human. They could have improved the sport by having cameras and computers call balls and strikes but many fight it because they want to keep the human element of having someone behind the plate make hundreds of judgement calls a game. Seeing this unfold where it's found technology was used to cheat has people upset. Football has been more progressive in allowing technology in to the game and some have viewed the Pats cheating as being closer to skirting the line of what's acceptable and not acceptable. There is a long standing Commissioner in place who's been more worried about the issue of players in domestic violence situations compared to a new commissioner taking over a league that's already been through a huge steroid scandal that was handled a bit light.

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1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/former-mlb-pitcher-jack-mcdowell-alleges-80s-white-sox-tony-la-russa-cheated-with-camera/ar-BBZ3W51?ocid=st

 

McDowell said the White Sox had a camera zoomed in on opposing catchers and a light in an outfield Gatorade sign that could be controlled from the manager's office and would presumably let hitters know which pitches were coming.

"I'm going to whistle-blow this thing now, because I'm getting tired of this crap," McDowell told the station.

 

"He was also the head of the first team ... with people doing steroids," McDowell said, referencing La Russa's decade-long stint as manager of the Oakland A's, which included managing infamous steroid users Jose Canseco and Mark McGwire. "Yet he's still in the game making half a million. No one's gonna go after that."

 

 

"This stuff's getting old, where they target certain guys and let other people off the hook," McDowell said. " ... Everybody who's been around the game knows all this stuff."

 

McDowell's comments on the '80s White Sox came as he explained that illegal sign-stealing has been happening for decades, but that players, managers and MLB itself have collectively decided to look the other way, much like the steroid era.

"Nobody wants to throw anybody under the bus," he said.

https://nypost.com/2020/01/17/cc-sabathia-keeps-getting-angrier-over-astros-cheating-dont-give-a-f-k/

 

“F–king ’17, we should have won the World Series,’’ Sabathia said during an episode of his R2C2 podcast with Ryan Ruocco released Thursday. “I don’t care what nobody says. And now that this happened, nobody can ever f–king tell me that we wasn’t gonna win it. We should have won! There’s no way you can tell me we weren’t better than them. I don’t give a f–k what nobody says.”

 

 

 

This is quickly devolving into a #himtoo movement.

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1 hour ago, GG said:

Direct contact with skin is clearly better, but maybe the bat buzzer is less conspicuous and you can have better electronics inside the bat.  


Hollowing out and wiring up the inside of a baseball bat seems an incredibly stupid way to cheat since bats are prone to, you know, splinter and shatter from time to time. Don’t get me wrong, I think all these guys should face long, long suspensions but some of these theories are now veering into the absurd.

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1 hour ago, apuszczalowski said:

I think alot of the differences between this and the NFL/Pats is the sport itself. baseball is viewed as a sport where many of the fans are purists and want to keep it traditional and old school. Technology is pushed aside to keep things more human. They could have improved the sport by having cameras and computers call balls and strikes but many fight it because they want to keep the human element of having someone behind the plate make hundreds of judgement calls a game. Seeing this unfold where it's found technology was used to cheat has people upset. Football has been more progressive in allowing technology in to the game and some have viewed the Pats cheating as being closer to skirting the line of what's acceptable and not acceptable. There is a long standing Commissioner in place who's been more worried about the issue of players in domestic violence situations compared to a new commissioner taking over a league that's already been through a huge steroid scandal that was handled a bit light.

Baseball also has a storied and celebrated history of cheating.  Pitchers have written books about how they broke the rules with spitters, nail files, grease, you name it.  Stealing signals and whistling pitches was another time honored tradition of the game until a few days ago.  

 

Did the phrase "if you aint cheating you aint trying" originate in baseball?  I don't get all the outrage now that these practices have gone to the next level.  

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6 hours ago, CLTbills said:

Also a Sox fan... And I'm 100% ok with them cutting ties with Cora.

 

I'm not going to act like a Pats* fan and defend my team's cheating. If they cheated, then they cheated and they should be punished. If you're truly a fan of the sport, this should be your position.

Same. Never like that little rat looking manager anyways. I’m not surprised how he acted. 

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21 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

Who the hell knows.. more players are complaining about it today = MLB still has a big issue, even more so right now, considering that their own players are still keeping this in the press and are pissed about it

 

Notice the difference with the response to NFL players to spygate. A couple spoke out at the time, but nothing like now with MLB players.

 

This whole story of cheating in baseball is blowing up.  More teams implicated.  Trevor Bauer on the radio this week saying "70%" of pitchers doctor the ball all the time.  There have to be a lot of owners getting very sweaty right now about what comes out next (Tony LaRussa!).  These Yankee players have big balls complaining about the Astros, when they were fined (as were the Red Sox) for using their video taping room to steal signs in 2017.

  

Contrast this with the response of NFL owners.  They pretty much kept quiet.  It is likely because they knew more than one of them was vulnerable at the time to something being exposed.  As a group, they circled the wagons and kept mum.....there was/is too much money at stake for them, as a group, to acknowledge the game can be gamed.

 

This is going to get worse and the MLB owners.  They may wish they had Goodell to ServPro this whole mess.

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On 1/16/2020 at 2:03 PM, Bray Wyatt said:

This would be the second time the Pats were caught

 

It's actually the 3rd time, that we know of.  The Cheaters were caught prior to the original Spygate breaking and warned not to do it.  They kept doing it, for obvious reasons.  And had been doing it since Belicheat got there. 

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1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Notice the difference with the response to NFL players to spygate. A couple spoke out at the time, but nothing like now with MLB players.

 

This whole story of cheating in baseball is blowing up.  More teams implicated.  Trevor Bauer on the radio this week saying "70%" of pitchers doctor the ball all the time.  There have to be a lot of owners getting very sweaty right now about what comes out next (Tony LaRussa!).  These Yankee players have big balls complaining about the Astros, when they were fined (as were the Red Sox) for using their video taping room to steal signs in 2017.

  

Contrast this with the response of NFL owners.  They pretty much kept quiet.  It is likely because they knew more than one of them was vulnerable at the time to something being exposed.  As a group, they circled the wagons and kept mum.....there was/is too much money at stake for them, as a group, to acknowledge the game can be gamed.

 

This is going to get worse and the MLB owners.  They may wish they had Goodell to ServPro this whole mess.

 

The 2018 Red Sox punishment still has to come out as well. In regards to the Yankees, I am not trying to let blind homerism color my glasses in a shade of Rose, but they were fined and punished in 2017 for the phone incident and placed on warning with everyone else. I do find it hard to believe that they would be stupid enough to continue to skirt the rules in regards to cameras and tipping batters off on what pitches are being thrown while they have been the loudest complainers about the Asterisks cheating. Granted, I have been fooled by the utter stupidity of people and sports teams before, so it wouldn't necessarily surprise me either.

 

It's been so long ago, but LaRussa in the 80s - were cameras even good enough back then to steal signs from Center field to a catchers crotch? Also the record of the White Sox was not even good during this time period

 

image.png.c6250fa9517cf84666fa50b23d14f97a.png

 

I think I put the video up in here, but Jomboy  put together a video of Fliers using what is assumed to be pine tar last season to toss a no-hitter. When you watch the video, you really wonder why no one even caught what he was doing or questioned it, kind of like the "buzzer" flying off the end of the bat that the Astro went to pick up and put in his pocket - Ump should have grabbed it and it all would have been over right there, but I digress. Doctoring the ball has been around as long as sign stealing (without technology); spitters, grease balls, pine tar/resin, cutters have been used throughout the history- fans are more tolerant of that because it has always been in the game and part of the game. It's the technological part that is an issue.

 

The spygate videos themselves had to be so damning that they were destroyed, never released and brushed under the table. I still feel the correct thing to do would have been to sacrifice the NE franchise to fully root it all out; however there was a reason they didn't = means the people who were banned or received the harshest punishments would have singing like a canary and the entire league would be toast.

 

I'm still surprised how good the NBA was with framing their one rogue ref

 

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11 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Next thing you know, the buzzers will be implanted under the skin. 

Something like that will happen.  Goalie sticks with force fields will be an NHL scandal in the 2249-50 season.

10 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

IMO this is why the NFL has been hesitant to do much about NE

 

Once the floodgates open it gets ugly for the sport.

Understandable but the punishment could be something unannounced if they were smart.  Allowing their entire OL to hold for a decade seems like a weird punishment.

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