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Hyde and Poyer - Disappointing stats.


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7 hours ago, Lurker said:

Not the way this defense is structured, which is to keep everything in front of them.   They don't break up passes because very few deep balls are even attempted against them.    

 

Next topic...

this was going to be my quick answer.
 But they both had some missed plays.
on that note i do agree with most here, one of the best tandems.
Hopefully Poyers wife is okay with him remaining a Bill for another year or two...........

Hyde all day.

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3 hours ago, DuckyBoys said:

 

 

Poyer was a bit lackluster  Feel like his name got called good portion of missed tackles and breakdowns.  I agree their stats would look better if teams were attacking downfield which is not where they hurt the Bills this season.  Or if we were more of a attacking defense vs the bend dont break approach.  Tackling in general was sloppy and more so the second part of the year.  When you play a lot of zone and allow short catches you have to limit the yardage after the reception with a quick clean tackle  I though the Bills were a bit suspect there (this is not directly aimed at Poyer/Hyde)  Checkdowns seemed to be a Kryptonite this season

Very good pointS with zone D etc... It seemed at times nit Just Poyer but the D as a whole was sloppy with tackling. It could also be because the amount they were on the field due to our offensive woes. 

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14 hours ago, GreggTX said:

We have perhaps the best safety tandem in the NFL. Period.

looking up a handful AFC teams at random as a reference
Baltimore’s Safety tandem (Clark and Thomas) had 13 pass breakups  and 3 ints 

Jets Safety tandem (Adams and Maye) had 14 pass breakups and 2 ints

KC safety tandem (Mathieu and Thornhill) had 17 pass breakups and 7 ints

Denver safety tandem (Simmons and Parks )  had 17 pass breakups and 5 ints

Raiders safety tandem  ( Harris and Joyner ) had 11 pass breakups and 3 ints

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Obviously there is a story to tell behind those stats. I couldn't possibly care less if someone has a low stat total when the defense, as a whole, is killing it.

 

Sometimes you have to see the whole picture.

 

An absolute terrible thread.

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3 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

No pass rush. In fact most of the QB sacks were coverage sacks. You are looking at the wrong part of the defense that needs to be fixed.

 

This was my interpretation of the stats as well. The defense's sack totals were higher than expected, while the pass breakups and interceptions lower than expected, because fewer QB's were willing to take chances against the back 7...of which Hyde and Poyer play a key role. Buffalo's defense has a reputation for being perhaps the best in the league at disguising coverages. Buffalo also led the league in fewest pass plays given up of 20+ yards (34 all season). They deliberately scheme to keep everything in front of them, which can limit the opportunities for safeties to get interceptions and pass breakups. Also, I think some of y'all either don't watch enough football outside the Bills or are having memory selectivity biases. Safeties are missing tackles and giving up pass plays all the time...even the very best ones. Overall, Hyde and Poyer are excellent. Neal and J. Johnson are looking good, too.

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1 hour ago, billsfan_34 said:

Very good pointS with zone D etc... It seemed at times nit Just Poyer but the D as a whole was sloppy with tackling. It could also be because the amount they were on the field due to our offensive woes. 

 

 

   Bills offense time of possession was 29:59 for the season  which strangely enough is very similar to the stat for 2018  By eyeball the offense was much better in 2019 then 2018  So that stat is  probably  more skewed by the style the defense plays  At some point McDermott/Frazier need to be more aggressive on defense.    After all its not the offense that allows 15 play drives.  That said a lot of those longer drives were extended by sloppy tackling which again might be from fatigue.  Sometimes you gotta take a shot to get a team off the field instead of waiting for them to mess up on their own.  What we can hope is that 1. the offense gets more potent and the opposing teams press more leading to turnovers/less wear and tear on the defense   2.  we get a elite edge rusher or someone develops that can dominate at the los without needing to scheme pressure  No offense to our D line but a lot of the pressures were from stunts/scheme and coverage.

 

 

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47 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

 

 

   Bills offense time of possession was 29:59 for the season  which strangely enough is very similar to the stat for 2018  By eyeball the offense was much better in 2019 then 2018  So that stat is  probably  more skewed by the style the defense plays  At some point McDermott/Frazier need to be more aggressive on defense.    After all its not the offense that allows 15 play drives.  That said a lot of those longer drives were extended by sloppy tackling which again might be from fatigue.  Sometimes you gotta take a shot to get a team off the field instead of waiting for them to mess up on their own.  What we can hope is that 1. the offense gets more potent and the opposing teams press more leading to turnovers/less wear and tear on the defense   2.  we get a elite edge rusher or someone develops that can dominate at the los without needing to scheme pressure  No offense to our D line but a lot of the pressures were from stunts/scheme and coverage.

 

 

I was thinking the same thing- we allowed some really long drives this season! Hopefully we can find balance between the 2. Thats what good teams do.

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On 1/10/2020 at 11:27 PM, Happy Days said:

They only combined for 5 pass breakups and 3 ints. Those are pretty disappointing numbers this season. 
 

The only team that had as few of pass breakups from their safeties in the AFC as The Bills was The Colts. Did not look up the NFC

 

Micah Hyde was PFF's top-graded Bills player on defense in 2019

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2020/01/16/micah-hyde-pro-football-focus-top-buffalo-bills-2019/

 

 

Tre’Davious White had a fantastic season for the Buffalo Bills defense and was showered with awards and honor, highlighted by his first All-Pro nod.

 

However, White was only Pro Football Focus’ third-best graded defender on the Bills defense from the 2019 NFL season.

 

The top-graded man was safety Micah Hyde, who earned a 78.4 overall mark. That made Hyde PFF’s 11th best safety in the NFL this season. Included in Hyde’s overall grade is his coverage grade, which clocked in at 80.5, the 10th best in the NFL among qualifying safeties.

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Stats can be misleading without context.

 

At this point, I don't care what PFF or Football Outsiders says... or what random stat is brought up to criticize individual players in our defense.  I've read recent articles that say Tre White is overrated, Jordan Phillips is a below average lineman, Matt Milano can't tackle, etc.  Now we are knocking Micah Hyde and Jordan Poyer, who are two key pieces in one of the NFL's best pass defenses 3 years running.

 

Bottom line -- this defense performed at a Super Bowl level in 2019.  Outside of maybe the Philadelphia game, they put us in a position to win every single other game this year.  That would be 16 of 17 total games on the year.  If we could count on our offense to put up just 25 points, we would have beaten the Patriots both times, the Browns, the Ravens, the final Jets game, and the Wild Card Round.

 

15 minutes ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

Micah Hyde was PFF's top-graded Bills player on defense in 2019

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2020/01/16/micah-hyde-pro-football-focus-top-buffalo-bills-2019/

 

 

Tre’Davious White had a fantastic season for the Buffalo Bills defense and was showered with awards and honor, highlighted by his first All-Pro nod.

 

However, White was only Pro Football Focus’ third-best graded defender on the Bills defense from the 2019 NFL season.

 

The top-graded man was safety Micah Hyde, who earned a 78.4 overall mark. That made Hyde PFF’s 11th best safety in the NFL this season. Included in Hyde’s overall grade is his coverage grade, which clocked in at 80.5, the 10th best in the NFL among qualifying safeties.

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Like I said in another thread...

I doubt anyone could come up with more than 2-3 defenses that played better in 2019 than the Bills.  And that is being extremely generous.

 

However, Micah Hyde was our BEST RANKED player for the year.  And he wasn't even Top 10 at his position.

How can PFF justify that?

 

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13 minutes ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

Micah Hyde was PFF's top-graded Bills player on defense in 2019

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2020/01/16/micah-hyde-pro-football-focus-top-buffalo-bills-2019/

 

 

Tre’Davious White had a fantastic season for the Buffalo Bills defense and was showered with awards and honor, highlighted by his first All-Pro nod.

 

However, White was only Pro Football Focus’ third-best graded defender on the Bills defense from the 2019 NFL season.

 

The top-graded man was safety Micah Hyde, who earned a 78.4 overall mark. That made Hyde PFF’s 11th best safety in the NFL this season. Included in Hyde’s overall grade is his coverage grade, which clocked in at 80.5, the 10th best in the NFL among qualifying safeties.

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Ah yes more of those arbitrary "we're doing something meticulous and data-driven that produces a number, but we can't tell you exactly what that is" PFF grades.

Don't like 'em when they're bad, don't like 'em when they're good.

 

Isn't it kind of strange that PFF has a grading system that's supposed to explicitly account for a player's value to the team - a key stop on 3rd down is supposed to count for more than an tackle after equivalent yardage on a less critical play - the Bills had the #2 defense on points given up and #3 on yards, #4 for passing yards - and yet their best player, who seems to be acknowledged as one of the best safeties in the game right now , grades out #11 with PFF?

 

SMH

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15 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

At this point, I don't care what PFF or Football Outsiders says... or what random stat is brought up to criticize individual players in our defense.  I've read recent articles that say Tre White is overrated, Jordan Phillips is a below average lineman, Matt Milano can't tackle, etc.  Now we are knocking Micah Hyde and Jordan Poyer, who are two key pieces in one of the NFL's best pass defenses 3 years running.

 

Right On!  "Buffalo Vs. Everybody"

 

Quote

Like I said in another thread...

I doubt anyone could come up with more than 2-3 defenses that played better in 2019 than the Bills.  And that is being extremely generous.

 

However, Micah Hyde was our BEST RANKED player for the year.  And he wasn't even Top 10 at his position.

How can PFF justify that?

 

I agree with you.  It's not even "come up with", by the most important stats for a defense - points given up and yards given up - Bills are top 2 or 3.   Sure, places that need improvement like turnovers and penalties, but overall, you're right on. 

 

For a "Devil's Advocate" argument, I will say we are a "Do Your 1/11" Defense where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, so one might expect that the individual players might not have as outstanding stats.  But that's actually a further indictment of the Special Secret Sauce stats these outfits put out because they are supposed to be explicitly designed to measure a player's contribution to the team vs. just individual stats.

 

All that said, Matt Milano really does need to work on his tackling.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

Stats can be misleading without context.

 

At this point, I don't care what PFF or Football Outsiders says... or what random stat is brought up to criticize individual players in our defense.  I've read recent articles that say Tre White is overrated, Jordan Phillips is a below average lineman, Matt Milano can't tackle, etc.  Now we are knocking Micah Hyde and Jordan Poyer, who are two key pieces in one of the NFL's best pass defenses 3 years running.

 

Bottom line -- this defense performed at a Super Bowl level in 2019.  Outside of maybe the Philadelphia game, they put us in a position to win every single other game this year.  That would be 16 of 17 total games on the year.  If we could count on our offense to put up just 25 points, we would have beaten the Patriots both times, the Browns, the Ravens, the final Jets game, and the Wild Card Round.

 

 

Like I said in another thread...

I doubt anyone could come up with more than 2-3 defenses that played better in 2019 than the Bills.  And that is being extremely generous.

 

However, Micah Hyde was our BEST RANKED player for the year.  And he wasn't even Top 10 at his position.

How can PFF justify that?

 

 

Trust me I'm not a PFF guy.

 

I just put it out there for discussion 

 

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