warrior9 Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 In this defense, McDermott/Frazier used Lorenzo is a lot of different packages. 1st and 2nd down when on the field he played a pretty standard 4-3 LB. Where it gets interesting is on third down, he played the 3 tech (standing up) and would rush off the edge. He's 6'1 245ish so he is a pretty big body. I think his athleticism is ~ avg for an NFL LB. Do they (or you) think that Vosean Joseph is this guy? He is 6'1 230 or so (now has had a full year to train so may be more now), hes super athletic, and has awesome instincts but i'm unfamiliar with his coverage ability. I hate that we couldn't really see him play this year. In an ideal world, he is the guy. An LB corp with Edmunds, Milano, and Joseph would be an insanely athletic and fast group. What do you think they do to replace him and/or what you like them to do to replace him? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 I think they do look for that "jackknife" sort of player who can stop the run, drop back in coverage and rush the passer. I was hoping for Matthew Judon from the Ravens but he will probably be franchise tagged. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 I imagine Joseph will get an opportunity. I also think they'll look for at least one more edge guy in free agency and/or the draft. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBennett Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 Yup they have FA and or draft and im guessing FA for this type of player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior9 Posted January 8, 2020 Author Share Posted January 8, 2020 Just now, Magox said: I think they do look for that "jackknife" sort of player who can stop the run, drop back in coverage and rush the passer. I was hoping for Matthew Judon from the Ravens but he will probably be franchise tagged. Can Judon drop into coverage? I always viewed him more of a pass rusher. I think is Vosean can play in coverage, he'd be that jack of all trades. His tape at Florida is pretty awesome. I just don't know if they view him as MLB depth or have a greater plan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, warrior9 said: Can Judon drop into coverage? I always viewed him more of a pass rusher. I think is Vosean can play in coverage, he'd be that jack of all trades. His tape at Florida is pretty awesome. I just don't know if they view him as MLB depth or have a greater plan. Yes he can. He's not great but he definitely improved on that front this past year. They don't need him to be great at it just capable and he wouldn't be put in situations in my estimations to where he would be doing that on the majority of snaps. He's a good pass rusher and my guess is that he would be rushing the passer or defending the run on most likely over 75% of the snaps he is in. Here are a couple articles on it. https://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2017/7/29/16061910/matthew-judon-shows-off-coverage-abilities-on-day-two-of-training-camp-ravens https://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2019/12/21/21025092/matthew-judon-is-carrying-the-torch-baltimore-ravens Quote Matthew Judon has earned himself quite the payday this offseason. Over the past three seasons, Judon’s statistics go toe to toe with the leagues best edge defenders. Considering that Judon was No. 3 on the depth chart in 2017 and 2018, as well as the fact that Judon drops into coverage more than any edge defender in the NFL, he deserves the money coming his way. Edited January 8, 2020 by Magox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 I think Joseph will be the guy. I was pumped when we drafted him. That said, I imagine we bring in a FA or another pick as competition. Hopefully Lorax will be back in a coaching capacity and able to help Joseph the way Williams helped Oliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florida Bills Fanatic Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 20 minutes ago, warrior9 said: In this defense, McDermott/Frazier used Lorenzo is a lot of different packages. 1st and 2nd down when on the field he played a pretty standard 4-3 LB. Where it gets interesting is on third down, he played the 3 tech (standing up) and would rush off the edge. He's 6'1 245ish so he is a pretty big body. I think his athleticism is ~ avg for an NFL LB. Do they (or you) think that Vosean Joseph is this guy? He is 6'1 230 or so (now has had a full year to train so may be more now), hes super athletic, and has awesome instincts but i'm unfamiliar with his coverage ability. I hate that we couldn't really see him play this year. In an ideal world, he is the guy. An LB corp with Edmunds, Milano, and Joseph would be an insanely athletic and fast group. What do you think they do to replace him and/or what you like them to do to replace him? I think you may be correct about Joseph. I was thinking that they may have been ready to move on from Lorenzo when they drafted Joseph but it now appears that they were selecting him to be the heir apparent going into 2020. I should have expected it to be that way. Beane seems to be playing chess when everyone else is playing checkers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 Lorenzo offered great flexiblity because he played two different positions, but he is super low on the list of positions that need players. He played infrequently as a strong side linebackers. The Bills were more often than not in their nickle package, which makes sense given how much 11 personnel teams run. We of course need a strong side guy, but that player will not get more than 25% of snaps. I wouldn't invest high priced assets in finding that player. The rest of Lorenzo's time on the field was as a pass rusher. We of course need pass rushers, but that is nothing new. I think everyone here already new we needed a new edge rusher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroutDog Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 The word on Joseph, during the draft, stated that he was NOT instinctual and overran plays at times. Assuming they’ve coached that out of him, he would be the prime candidate. If not, draft/FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 I don’t think they need to replace him with the same type of player who can play both. That allowed them some nice flexibility but in reality he played an average of 10-15 snaps a game at LB. the overall numbers were inflated by the one game that Milano was out and the game vs the Ravens where they had to do some unique things vs that offense. I think you replace his production within multiple players. You can find an off ball LB to pair with Edmunds and Milano in our base D - either a vet in FA or maybe Vosean Joseph is ready. Either way you want that guy to be able to also play ST because you need to replace those snaps as well (Joseph does). Most importantly you need to replace his 264 snaps on the DL rushing the passer. We already know we need pass rush depth and this just adds to that. But I don’t think you have to try to find a unicorn like Zo to replace him. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCbillsfan Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 (edited) Lorax was a unique player, a 2 down LB who rushed the QB on 3rd down. Plus he played special teams. I don't think one player will replace Lorax. Either they'll get a stud 3 down LB, unlikely, or have Joseph, Dodson or a FA 2 down LB along with a new pass rusher added to the mix. Then find his replacement on teams. What Yolo said. Beat me to it. Edited January 8, 2020 by DCbillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 Just now, DCbillsfan said: Lorax was a unique player, a 2 down LB who rushed the QB on 3rd down. Plus he played special teams. I don't think one player will replace Lorax. Either they'll get a stud 3 down LB, unlikely, or have Joseph, Dodson or a FA 2 down LB along with a new pass rusher added to the mix. Then find his replacement on teams. I wouldn’t sink a ton of money or a high pick into another LB when you already have Milano and Edmunds. I think you can replace that 3rd LB with a cheap vet or vosean. Then focus on the pass rush piece. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finn Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 As I recall Vosean didn't shine in camp or preseason. The word on him was inconsistent: terrific plays mixed with blown coverages and overrun plays. Also small. Probably no coincidence they stashed him on IR. I don't think Bean would assume he can start next year; more likely he'll be allowed to compete with a FA and/or mid-round draft pick. But you never know. If they get a pass rusher and top WR in free agency and draft a WR in the first round, they could go for a OLB in the second round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaattMaann Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 Zo was an average pass rusher on third downs, we can replace that. He didn't play much LB per game anyway. We can replace that. I would say I am more worried about replacing his leadership, but we have a lot of guys who are emerging as leaders on this team. So I am less worried about that. Zo was a great Bills player, mostly for his attitude and community work. His football play will easily be replaced. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 Beane's strategy could trend in on of two directions. Either, he could acquire a big name player (like Judon - most recently with Baltimore) or he could rely on multiple candidates to compete for Lorax's roster spot, Joseph, a mid level free agent, a sleeper free agent, and maybe an early day three draft pick. I think he'll probably take the latter approach, though I can't say exactly what that will look like. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 (edited) I would sign Cory Littleton from the Rams as a UFA... he’s a stud MLB, and then slide Edmunds outside. I think we need improvement over Milano as well- he would be a good rotational LB, but every down player, he is not Edited January 8, 2020 by CountryCletus 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCbillsfan Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 37 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: I wouldn’t sink a ton of money or a high pick into another LB when you already have Milano and Edmunds. I think you can replace that 3rd LB with a cheap vet or vosean. Then focus on the pass rush piece. I agree. That's why I thought a stud LB was unlikely. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior9 Posted January 8, 2020 Author Share Posted January 8, 2020 (edited) 44 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: I don’t think they need to replace him with the same type of player who can play both. That allowed them some nice flexibility but in reality he played an average of 10-15 snaps a game at LB. the overall numbers were inflated by the one game that Milano was out and the game vs the Ravens where they had to do some unique things vs that offense. I think you replace his production within multiple players. You can find an off ball LB to pair with Edmunds and Milano in our base D - either a vet in FA or maybe Vosean Joseph is ready. Either way you want that guy to be able to also play ST because you need to replace those snaps as well (Joseph does). Most importantly you need to replace his 264 snaps on the DL rushing the passer. We already know we need pass rush depth and this just adds to that. But I don’t think you have to try to find a unicorn like Zo to replace him. Right.. I'm going to be interested to see what kind of weight, size, etc Joseph put on in his rehab and his first NFL off-season. It would be AWESOME if he can fill right in. 49 minutes ago, TroutDog said: The word on Joseph, during the draft, stated that he was NOT instinctual and overran plays at times. Assuming they’ve coached that out of him, he would be the prime candidate. If not, draft/FA. I think this was more in coverage ( I could be wrong ) If they can teach him downhill reads and angles, scraping, etc... his athleticism is awesome and he could be a huge asset ( I hope ) Edited January 8, 2020 by warrior9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billzgobowlin Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 They will draft his replacement in the top three rounds a la Harrison Phillips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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