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The Rooney Rule (still) isn’t working?


wppete

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1 minute ago, Jauronimo said:

Off topic, but my favorite "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" story in recent years is the one I keep hearing from old timers regarding millenials "whining" about how they can't afford houses. 

 

I never get tired of hearing about how a guy with a highschool education, working an unskilled labor position, at a time when you had minimal competition from women and minorities for jobs, before economic globalization, a few short years after the worlds' manufacturing capability outside the U.S. was reduced to rubble but before the emergence of cheap labor from China, and way before basic necessities like shelter were treated as the preferred safe haven asset class for investors here and abroad, was able to save their salary for three whole months while supporting a family of 7 to buy a house in the burbs.  

 

Its that damn avocado toast!

 

What's the opposite of "Okay Boomer" for this post? ?

 

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5 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Off topic, but my favorite "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" story in recent years is the one I keep hearing from old timers regarding millenials "whining" about how they can't afford houses. 

 

I never get tired of hearing about how a guy with a highschool education, working an unskilled labor position, at a time when you had minimal competition from women and minorities for jobs, before economic globalization, a few short years after the worlds' manufacturing capability outside the U.S. was reduced to rubble but before the emergence of cheap labor from China, and way before basic necessities like shelter were treated as the preferred safe haven asset class for investors here and abroad, was able to save their salary for three whole months while supporting a family of 7 to buy a house in the burbs.  

 

Its that damn avocado toast!

 

Thank you for this.  The poor vs. rich argument, for years, has masked the REAL redistribution of wealth from young to old that has been going on for decades.  This country chose pensions over progress in the 60s and 70s and we're still reeling from it.  

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24 minutes ago, SDS said:

 

 

But this issue is like smoking cigarettes. Smoking causes cancer... we know this, but not everyone who smokes gets cancer. It's probabilistic causation vs. deterministic causation. As you alluded to, not every black person experiences life the same way... but   there is a damn good chance there will be more obstacles in the way and smaller margins of error.

 

We can think we know what it’s like to be in someone else’s shoes, but you don’t know unless you’ve actually been there.

 

For the last several years I’ve gone to a park almost every day, weather permitting, to play tennis and hang out. People come and go, and over several hours 2-3 dozen people can pass through. I’m usually the only white guy there all day. These people come from all walks of life, nurses, teachers, old, young, male, female, from a retired Marine grunt in his 80’s to a recently retired Admiral in the Navy. Great group of people, we get along great, but there are some things I just can’t “get”. 

 

One day my best friend there (an electrician) sees a cop car go by, stops play and says “look, they changed the paint job on the cars”. I say what do you mean? It’s just a cop car. There’s all kinds of cop cars, state troopers, local county, sheriffs cars, etc. How is that paint job different? He thought it was HYSTERICAL! “HEY! Everybody, he doesn’t even notice when they change the paint job on the cop cars!!!” Huge laughs all around, and they were serious. They all saw it too. That was eye opening to me. 

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3 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

This has been a great thread....

 

I believe you see more of a change when the owners are younger

 

 

I agree with this.  A bunch of old, white, rich men running the show.  Completely out of touch with the players.  (We see this somewhere else) 

 

 Players may be rich now, but the vast majority of them were not prior to going pro.

 

It's going to take longer than people want it to, but progress will continue to be made.

 

In the first 88 years of the NFL's existence, there were seven black head coaches.

From 2003-present, there have been 14 black head coaches (I did not count interim hirings or Ron Rivera, as he's not black).

 

What I think needs some attention is the quick hook many black head coaches have gotten.  As I looked into this, I noticed that many have had 1-2 years before getting fired.

 

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4 minutes ago, Gugny said:

As I looked into this, I noticed that many have had 1-2 years before getting fired.

 

As was Rex.  As was Kitchens.  As was Schumur.  As was Pettine.  As was Marrone.  As was Dave Campo.  As was Raheem Morris.

 

Tomlin's been around a long time.  Dungy had a nice career as NFL HC.  I wonder why that is?

 

I'm not saying none of this exists, obviously it does, but were there any other reason these guys were fired besides race?  Did you check  their  won/loss records?  How many white coaches that were losers lasted longer than 2 years?

 

NFL stood for Not For Long before we had black coaches.

 

Not counting interim coaches makes me sad because we can't count Perry Fewell.

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1 minute ago, reddogblitz said:

 

As was Rex.  As was Kitchens.  As was Schumur.  As was Pettine.  As was Marrone.  As was Dave Campo.  As was Raheem Morris.

 

Tomlin's been around a long time.  Dungy had a nice career as NFL HC.  I wonder why that is?

 

I'm not saying none of this exists, obviously it does, but were there any other reason these guys were fired besides race?  Did you check  their  won/loss records?  How many white coaches that were losers lasted longer than 2 years?

 

NFL stood for Not For Long before we had black coaches.

 

Not counting interim coaches makes me sad because we can't count Perry Fewell.

 

There's far more to it than picking out a few black coaches who've had long tenures and a few white coaches who've been fired after 1-2 seasons.  Look at some accomplishments of some of those who've been canned after short tenures.  Look at the percentages.

 

And Perry Fewell, unfortunately, probably leads the league in going on interviews for jobs he had no chance for just to satisfy the Rooney Rule.  That's why I don't think this rule - or any rule - will ever be effective.

 

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10 minutes ago, Gugny said:

Look at some accomplishments of some of those who've been canned after short tenures. 

 

Like who for example?

 

The only 1 I can think of is Raheem Morris and he went back to being a DB coach which he presently is in Atlanta.

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10 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Like who for example?

Caldwell is an example. He spent four seasons as HC in Detroit and went to the playoffs twice, fired after accumulating a 36-28 record which was best of any Lions HC since the 50s. His replacement in Patricia has gone 9-22-1 since.

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31 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Caldwell is an example. He spent four seasons as HC in Detroit and went to the playoffs twice, fired after accumulating a 36-28 record which was best of any Lions HC since the 50s. His replacement in Patricia has gone 9-22-1 since.

 

Good point.  I think Caldwell is a good coach that gets a bad wrap.  Hiring Bill  Bellyache assistants is such a loser yet teams continue to do it.  Judge Joe is the next.

 

Here's an article that backs up Gug's point https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidberri/2018/01/02/black-head-coaches-in-the-nfl-are-much-more-likely-to-be-fired-with-a-winning-record/#15eb62071cb8

 

Meanwhile,

 

Marvin Lewis had a 16 year career in Cincinnati with .518 win %.

 

Herm lasted 5 years in New York with a 39–41 record.

 

The Broncos fired Mike Shanahan with 146-91 record.

 

Jerry Jones fired Jimmy Johnson with a 44-36 record.

 

There are a lot of factors at play here.  I have no idea what the answer is.

 

NFL - Not For Long

 

I thought when we had a SB between 2 black coaches we had crossed the chasm on this.  Guess not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jauronimo said:

Off topic, but my favorite "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" story in recent years is the one I keep hearing from old timers regarding millenials "whining" about how they can't afford houses. 

 

I never get tired of hearing about how a guy with a highschool education, working an unskilled labor position, at a time when you had minimal competition from women and minorities for jobs, before economic globalization, a few short years after the worlds' manufacturing capability outside the U.S. was reduced to rubble but before the emergence of cheap labor from China, and way before basic necessities like shelter were treated as the preferred safe haven asset class for investors here and abroad, was able to save their salary for three whole months while supporting a family of 7 to buy a house in the burbs.  

 

Its that damn avocado toast!

 

People love insisting that they’ve worked hard for everything that they have while forgetting, or completely unaware of, any advantages along the way.

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2 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Off topic, but my favorite "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" story in recent years is the one I keep hearing from old timers regarding millenials "whining" about how they can't afford houses. 

 

I never get tired of hearing about how a guy with a highschool education, working an unskilled labor position, at a time when you had minimal competition from women and minorities for jobs, before economic globalization, a few short years after the worlds' manufacturing capability outside the U.S. was reduced to rubble but before the emergence of cheap labor from China, and way before basic necessities like shelter were treated as the preferred safe haven asset class for investors here and abroad, was able to save their salary for three whole months while supporting a family of 7 to buy a house in the burbs.  

 

Its that damn avocado toast!

 

If a  millennial would join the military and do food service or some other non combat role for 3 years they could buy a house with no money down.

 

I'm not a millennial, but that's what I did and it's still possible.

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The Rooney Rule is stupid anyway. Just because teams have to interview a minority candidate doesn't mean that they have to hire them. It's also not fair to the minority candidate basically getting a potential "fake" interview just to meet a requirement. I get why they do it but it's stupid

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4 hours ago, wppete said:

Damn this thread really went off the rails. ? 

 

I think it was always bound for some friction, but that all things being equal did a good job of creating discussion without being over the top political or argumentative! All in all, not bad for a TSW thread.

 

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Dungy explained his perspective tonight on PTI
 

for him Rooney rule was intended to force organizations to interview a breath of candidates and really look far and wide for candidates.

 

instead, owners, typically heading the search these days, rush to check a box and then rush to sign a guy without really seriously looking around.

 

not sure I 100% see that, but it’s his view....

 

 

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4 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Dungy explained his perspective tonight on PTI
 

for him Rooney rule was intended to force organizations to interview a breath of candidates and really look far and wide for candidates.

 

instead, owners, typically heading the search these days, rush to check a box and then rush to sign a guy without really seriously looking around.

 

not sure I 100% see that, but it’s his view....

 

 

 

And he is right. That has been my point this whole thread. There are some good minority candidates out there still not getting serious looks because of the rush to check the box. It sure seems like rather than team sitting down and saying "okay we have to interview a minority candidate, who is the best minority candidate out there?" The teams are instead saying "Who do we have who is a minority coach on the current staff that we can interview to check that box?" 

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2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And he is right. That has been my point this whole thread. There are some good minority candidates out there still not getting serious looks because of the rush to check the box. It sure seems like rather than team sitting down and saying "okay we have to interview a minority candidate, who is the best minority candidate out there?" The teams are instead saying "Who do we have who is a minority coach on the current staff that we can interview to check that box?" 

 

Bingo.  I don't recall too many black interviewees going last before being declined.

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