Good Twitter Thread Breaking Down Allen vs. Houston

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

11 minutes ago, buffalostu2 said:

Doesn't the narrative change if Duke Williams holds on to his two as well?   You can't play what if and only discuss one side.   

 

Those two throws by Josh were not good though.

The throw to Williams and to  Smoke on the sideline were perfect.

 

Both receivers failed their QB in the clutch.

 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It isn't even that Daboll doesn't deserve any criticism. He does. It is just that you read this board and every offensive play that doesn't work is Brian Daboll's fault.

 

Josh Allen makes a wrong read? Daboll's fault. 

Receiver drops a catchable ball? Daboll's fault. 

Three blockers fail to execute basic block in a game on the line position? Daboll's fault. 

Josh Allen checks into a run with 30 seconds left and 1 time out? Daboll's fault.

 

It is particularly the case with Allen because there are some fans who will just put the blame anywhere else. But it is a theme of Bills fans for years. Always blame the offensive coordinator for not getting more out of sub standard offensive talent. 

 

You know when we had a decent offense? 2015 and 2016.... when we had two offensive linemen go to the pro bowl, Lesean McCoy still close to his prime, a decent tight end in Charles Clay (before his knee became positively arthritic) and talent at receiver - Watkins, Woods, Hogan, Harvin and Goodwin. Yes we had Greg Roman who was and is a very good offensive coordinator but we know those other guys are good because with the exception of Wood, who never played anywhere else, they all have solid NFL production in other spots before Buffalo, after Buffalo or both. 

 

I know I sound like a broken record. But I just can't stress how strongly I feel that the biggest problem offensively remains talent. We just don't have enough good players. 

 

And I should say that I don't think Josh played a bad game on Saturday and while I see the point on some of those clips, on others yes there might have been different places Josh could have gone with the ball but the places he did go were still somewhat effective in those situations. 

 

But firing Daboll is not the answer to improving our offense. Josh getting better and the Bills improving the talent around him is. 

I agree with you that people can't look at every play that doesn't work and/or there's bad execution by the players and blame the OC. You can blame the OC for having a young QB on the road in his first playoff game throwing 46 passes or having him directly involved in 56 plays(46/9/1) vs only handing the ball off to the RBs 21 times. That's while leading or tied in almost the entire 69 minutes of the game. After his 15 scripted plays ran out he didn't call a good game, he consistently outsmarts himself.

7 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

The throw to Williams and to  Smoke on the sideline were perfect.

 

Both receivers failed their QB in the clutch.

 

Both need to come down with those passes. Duke because he's on the field to get those type of catches and Brown's footwork was lazy at best. Has he never heard what a toe tap is?

[oldmanfan]

59 minutes ago, blitzboy54 said:

 

 

I don't have an agenda and you've missed my point. I video is unbiased and pure. who cares who posts it. I never said Allen didn't do anything right.  Your taking it personally and I have no idea why.  Just because someone that "hates" Allen posts videos of his bad plays doesn't invalidate his bad plays. If it would make you feel better I can link some videos of his good ones. My only point is nobody on this board (me included) knows if this is Dabolls fault.  I'm not citing this guys opinion but I watched everyone and he missed a whole bunch of stuff. It's typical of his season. Sooooo much better than last year but still not good enough.  Lets see what happens. This was always a point about Daboll anyhow, that Josh Allen isn't yet good enough is not controversial.  

 

Of course its about balance, his good vs bad. I'm super confused what your upset about. 

Perhaps I misunderstood your comments.  I simply ask why I should give validity to this guy’s analysis.  I think we all know Allen and every other QB sometimes make bad plays.

[GunnerBill]

16 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

I agree with you that people can't look at every play that doesn't work and/or there's bad execution by the players and blame the OC. You can blame the OC for having a young QB on the road in his first playoff game throwing 46 passes or having him directly involved in 56 plays(46/9/1) vs only handing the ball off to the RBs 21 times. That's while leading or tied in almost the entire 69 minutes of the game. After his 15 scripted plays ran out he didn't call a good game, he consistently outsmarts himself.

Both need to come down with those passes. Duke because he's on the field to get those type of catches and Brown's footwork was lazy at best. Has he never heard what a toe tap is?

 

That is why I said Daboll does deserve some criticism. I thought the pass / run balance in the 2nd half and OT was off abd there have been times this year when he has forgotten the run for stretches. But look, I don't think that is the main reason we lost. It comes down to talent and execution of what was called for me first and foremost. Firing Daboll to me is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I think it would likely do Josh's development more harm than good.

[Nextmanup]

2 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

This is why the Dabol hate is so stupid.  Like, I don't think its just wrong. Its just stupid. 

There is a ton of stuff that can be commented on here, but I want to focus on just one thing, because it is so important.

 

Regarding the "Pick 6" that wasn't.  Watch that play over and over.  Josh telegraphs the throw the whole way and the DB is reading off of Josh, no doubt.  But watch how LATE Josh throws the football!  If that ball is in the air while Josh can only see the receiver's back, as it should have been, it is probably a catch, even with the DB reading Josh and sitting on the INT.

 

But Josh consistently lacks the ability to make those types of throws.  His notion of "open" is what he was used to at Wyoming and no different than Tyrod's notion of "open."

I.E., all too often, Josh (and Tyrod) need to see an open receiver, usually at a standstill, before they realize "oh, there's an open receiver and I should throw to him."

 

In the NFL that isn't going to work almost always.

 

My position with Josh is that at this point in his football career, he is either going to "get" this or not, and he clearly does not get it. He doesn't do the things top throwers do--consistently--and that's why he is not a top thrower.

 

He is always going to be the guy with unrealized potential.

 

The hope is that he will magically "learn" all this but if he doesn't have it now, he's not going to have it next September, or ever.

 

I often wonder if fans who complain about Daboll, the OL, and many other factors, really focus on Allen's individual characteristics/skills or lack thereof.  

 

We can also talk about his poor footwork, general lack of accuracy, inability to read a defense pre-snap, inability to be aware of where the safeties are at all times, inability to deal with a blitz, blah blah blah.

Just focus on his timing and making a TON of throws way late by NFL standards.

 

He runs into a lot of trouble simply because of that.

 

 

 

[BillsMafi$]

28 starts , shouldn’t he be able to read these things by now?

[thebandit27]

5 minutes ago, BillsMafi$ said:

28 starts , shouldn’t he be able to read these things by now?

I’ve seen veteran DCs confuse QBs that have 100 starts. 
 

Just look at what McDermott has done to Brady the last 3 years 

Edited January 7, 2020 by thebandit27

[ILBillsfan]

2 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

There's that McKenzie play I've been ranting about - would've taken it to the house, most likely, but Josh throws it into the dirt.  Frustrating.

McKenzie also fell down coming out of his break but it’s not mentioned 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That is why I said Daboll does deserve some criticism. I thought the pass / run balance in the 2nd half and OT was off abd there have been times this year when he has forgotten the run for stretches. But look, I don't think that is the main reason we lost. It comes down to talent and execution of what was called for me first and foremost. Firing Daboll to me is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I think it would likely do Josh's development more harm than good.

Agreed that firing Daboll would do more harm than good, but someone(McDermott or Beane) needs to sit him down and ask him WTH he was thinking. Josh is 2-4 when passing 35 times or more and now 0-3 when throwing over 40 times, he has to know those numbers, wouldn't you think? Including the Bills 48 attempts, the average number of passes for the 8 playoff teams last weekend was 31, we had 50% more than the average, again while leading or tied most of the game. Sometimes you can handcuff an offense with bad play calling, to me this was one of those game. Singletary was massively underutilized.

[GunnerBill]

21 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

Agreed that firing Daboll would do more harm than good, but someone(McDermott or Beane) needs to sit him down and ask him WTH he was thinking. Josh is 2-4 when passing 35 times or more and now 0-3 when throwing over 40 times, he has to know those numbers, wouldn't you think? Including the Bills 48 attempts, the average number of passes for the 8 playoff teams last weekend was 31, we had 50% more than the average, again while leading or tied most of the game. Sometimes you can handcuff an offense with bad play calling, to me this was one of those game. Singletary was massively underutilized.

 

I think he has struggled to really find an identity for the offense. There were signs of it in that run between Cleveland and Baltimore with the up tempo and the 11 personnel but after the Ravens stopped it they seemed to give up on the idea. 

 

As for Saturday. If we are 21-0 up as we should have been or if one of our 3 blockers blocks the Texans one defender we win the game. Yes I thought in the 2nd half and OT Singletary was underused. But our offense still had enough easy plays there to make. The players didn't make them. 

[BananaB]

Who the ***** is Seth Galina? You’d think this team has been to the playoffs every year for the past decade by the way they rip the QB after one game. Do people not remember the laughing stock we were for 17 years? We had a great season and our second year QB was big part of helping this team get to the playoffs. Sure he had some ups and downs just like he did Saturday night, he’s got a ways to go but we are a very competitive football team right now. Despite his struggles he put us in position to tie, then possibly to win if it wasn’t for that damn penalty. He’s been doing this all year long. Give it up. It’s on to next season and let’s hope he takes a few more steps forward in his growth.  These stupid posts aren’t changing the minds of the people running this organization. 

Edited January 7, 2020 by BananaB

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, BananaB said:

Who the ***** is Seth Galina? You’d think this team has been to the playoffs every year for the past decade by the way they rip the QB after one game. Do people not remember the laughing stock we were for 17 years? We had a great season and our second year QB was big part of helping this team get to the playoffs. Sure he had some ups and downs just like he did Saturday night, he’s got a ways to go but we are a very competitive football team right now. Despite his struggles he put us in position to tie, then possibly to win if it wasn’t for that damn penalty. He’s been doing this all year long. Give it up. It’s on to next season and let’s hope he takes a few more steps forward in his growth.  These stupid posts aren’t changing the minds of the people running this organization. 

 

You do realise this is a discussion board, right? What we do is discuss. 

[BananaB]

23 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You do realise this is a discussion board, right? What we do is discuss. 

For some it’s a ***** on Josh board. 

[ILBillsfan]

The beauty of the internet everybody is an expert and if it matches your agenda you start a thread

 

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, BananaB said:

For some it’s a ***** on Josh board. 

 

But this wasn't a ***** on Josh thread. This was a discussion about a breakdown someone had done on twitter. 

[McBean]

I think we can all agree, next year is put up or shut up time for #17.

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, McBean said:

I think we can all agree, next year is put up or shut up time for #17.

We can all agree he needs to continue to improve

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, McBean said:

I think we can all agree, next year is put up or shut up time for #17.

 

I think it is the critical year. 

[Mr. WEO]

Aren't the Knicks still playing Allen Houston?

[Fan in Chicago]

32 minutes ago, BananaB said:

For some it’s a ***** on Josh board. 

The article had a breakdown of key Allen plays. I am a supporter of Allen but am very interested in such analysis which talks about where he needs to improve. That is not equivalent to ****ing on him.