Trogdor Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said: Duke didn't catch it because he's not an NFL caliber impact WR, he's an undrafted fringe roster worthy CFL free agent signing. Beane needs to finish building this WR corp. The 2018 WR group was an embarrassment for any professional football team trying to win. Adding Brown and Beasley was a massive improvement but the remainder of the group is just as bad as 18 and has zero draft capital invested in it. It's lunacy that Duke, who didn't even dress half the year and sparingly played got 10 targets and the largest script in the passing game in our playoff matchup. That's on coaching 100%. It's a slap in the face to Brown and Beasley too, those guys should be ripping. How is it that even with picture and video evidence there can be people denying that it was clear DPI and not a drop. NFL caliber Wrs drop much easier balls than that routinely. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snafu Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, Trogdor said: How is it that even with picture and video evidence there can be people denying that it was clear DPI and not a drop. NFL caliber Wrs drop much easier balls than that routinely. Are you serious? The ball was obviously there and gone in that photo. Look at the slo-mo video on the prior page in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 11 hours ago, StHustle said: I get it....but based on the eye test from what you saw this year...would you keep Beasley over Duke? Wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandalay Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 10 minutes ago, Trogdor said: How is it that even with picture and video evidence there can be people denying that it was clear DPI and not a drop. NFL caliber Wrs drop much easier balls than that routinely. NFL impact WRs make that catch, hit him square in the hands. Contested catches always have contact, that's the nature of contested catches and thus impact players make those. Duke just isn't that good. That's why he was undrafted, went to the CFL, and was a rookie at age 26. Bottom of the roster fringe talent. Keep building the WR corps so we don't have to watch guys like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 2 hours ago, billsfan1959 said: I really like Williams and his skill set. I think he should stay on this team, and I also think he could play an important role next year and beyond. However, IMO, he should have caught that ball. The DB got his hand on Williams' arm and, maybe, prevents Williams from pulling the ball in as he falls. But, IMO, Williams should have pulled that ball in before the DB got his hand in there. This is the best clip of the action. The pass was pretty much perfect and could have been caught but it would have been a sensational play. Close but no cigar. Funny how people can interpret the same action differently. When he goes up for it Duke's body is rotating away from the ball possibly in an effort to adjust to the trajectory of the pass and possibly to box out the defender. In that situation it would be difficult for Duke to get both hands on the ball when it first gets there. So what he tried to do was deaden/stabilize it with his right hand and then lock it up/posses it with his left. But the defender got his hand in to prevent that. Tough chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 12 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: There are two people on this board: Those who think Duke is a scrub because he played in the CFL. Those who see a guy who was going to be a first round pick before getting suspended who has upside and a skill set our other guys dont. There is no in between. There is no shifting anyone from one side to the other. Bottom line: Duke bashers were wrong, they wont ever admit it, but they were because they said he would never make the roster, let alone start or contribute. That doesn't mean Duke is a lock for next years roster or is our future savior at WR. It means, the kid has potential and he stuck around this long and made an impact at end of season for a reason. I think he will be here competing again next year. Whether or not he makes the team or where he is at on the depth chart I think will have a lot to do with what Beane does in both FA and Draft. If Beane just drafts a guy, Duke is going to have a good shot to not only be on the team, but likely open up camp competing to start with the rookie. If Beane both signs a guy like say AJ Green and also invests an early pick on a WR, then I think Duke is looking at competing for the 5th WR spot next year at best. Good post. Agree with all of this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 26 minutes ago, whatdrought said: Thread over. Congratulations OP, you have created a great thread to prove that Duke dropped that pass. Well done. This is the very play Duke has to make to have value. He doesn’t separate, he doesn’t play special teams, he doesn’t offer a whole lot after the catch. If he wants to be in the NFL he needs to make this play in the biggest game of his life on a perfect pass. He didn’t. That’s not the end of his career, but it’ll take work to overcome. Duke is is exactly what we thought he was- a project WR who is a fringe NFL player. Give him every chance to win a job next year, but if the WR room is upgraded as it should be, it’ll be a pretty tough row to hoe. As I told my friend after the game, who is a big Duke fan.....If he's going to be the big, sure handed WR who makes tough catches then he's got to come down with that, it was a perfect pass. Otherwise what is the value of having him on the roster? Not picking on Duke, not saying he can't or won't improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsfanAZ Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 I like Duke and I think he has a place on this team. Foster can be active and play special teams or fill in for Brown to be the deep threat if he gets hurt. I think he misjudged the ball in the endzone and didnt get two hands on it to pull it in before the defender could do anything. The Bills need an offensive playmaker to go along with Brown, Beasley, and Duke. Someone with a big catch radius that is open even though he is not open. The Bills should cut Lee Smith and try to sign Austin Hooper. Smith might be a little bit better of a blocker but Hooper is very productive catching passes. He missed three games due to injury but still had almost 800 yards and 6 TDs this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 59 minutes ago, Dopey said: Watch the video. It wasn't DPI. I know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorin' Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 2 hours ago, Rob's House said: It's also equally accurate to say his drop rate is 3.5 percentage points higher, 47% higher, or Metcalf's is 33% lower. The only real takeaway is that you can skew impressions depending on how you choose to frame the numbers. The sample size is far too small to draw any meaningful conclusions. And actually, to your second point, it would be equivalent to 2 picks in 3 games vs. 7 in 16. Your miscalculation skewed Duke's ratio by 50%. Still, that's 70 drops vs. 105 drops over 1000 targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 36 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said: As I told my friend after the game, who is a big Duke fan.....If he's going to be the big, sure handed WR who makes tough catches then he's got to come down with that, it was a perfect pass. Otherwise what is the value of having him on the roster? Not picking on Duke, not saying he can't or won't improve. Yup. There are gonna be guys in the later rounds who are as big, a bit faster, and catch better and it’s gonna be hard to ignore them for Duke. I’m sure he’ll be at camp and I wish him the best as he looks for his opportunity. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngbills Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Duke Williams is 26 years old There is lots of professional film on Duke Duke has been on multiple NFL rosters Teams know his strengths and weaknesses Teams pay a premium for potential. For the unknown. Many players come in and out of the NFL. Look at just our Buffalo Bills stats over the years. You will see names and many will not even remember guys that actually put up ok numbers for a year or two. Lets stop pretending Duke is better than this guy or that guy. If he was many teams could have him. The Bills could have played him all year. Reality is still that he is a fringe NFL player until he proves otherwise. He will need a good off-season and will be fighting for a roster spot next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 He should have caught the ball. He didn't cos he isn't that good. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 3 hours ago, Todd Allan said: PASS INTERFERENCE. DEFENSE. FIRST AND GOAL FROM THE ONE. Sigh. No. What are you watching? I love the Bills as much as anyone, but there was no pass interference on the play, it was a drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill963 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 hour ago, ArtVandalay said: Duke didn't catch it because he's not an NFL caliber impact WR, he's an undrafted fringe roster worthy CFL free agent signing. Beane needs to finish building this WR corp. The 2018 WR group was an embarrassment for any professional football team trying to win. Adding Brown and Beasley was a massive improvement but the remainder of the group is just as bad as 18 and has zero draft capital invested in it. It's lunacy that Duke, who didn't even dress half the year and sparingly played got 10 targets and the largest script in the passing game in our playoff matchup. That's on coaching 100%. It's a slap in the face to Brown and Beasley too, those guys should be ripping. You realize Josh didn’t have to target Duke right? What a dumb comment. Josh obviously has a connection w Duke timing and feel wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 5 hours ago, billsfan1959 said: I really like Williams and his skill set. I think he should stay on this team, and I also think he could play an important role next year and beyond. However, IMO, he should have caught that ball. The DB got his hand on Williams' arm and, maybe, prevents Williams from pulling the ball in as he falls. But, IMO, Williams should have pulled that ball in before the DB got his hand in there. Honestly, what this throw shows me even moreso is that Duke should have been active all season and Foster shouldn't have been. How many times did we even see Allen make that throw this year? He wouldn't be able to even possibly make that throw to Brown or Beasly. I think Duke actually would catch that pass 7 or 8 times out of 10 when given the opportunity. And if he had the year to further develop chemistry with Allen, who knows? It was a disappointing miss by Duke on a fantastic throw by Allen. The future looks bright. So who are the WRs in the draft who are big, fast and sure-handed? Whoever they are, that's priority #1. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Honestly, what this throw shows me even moreso is that Duke should have been active all season and Foster shouldn't have been. How many times did we even see Allen make that throw this year? He wouldn't be able to even possibly make that throw to Brown or Beasly. I think Duke actually would catch that pass 7 or 8 times out of 10 when given the opportunity. And if he had the year to further develop chemistry with Allen, who knows? It was a disappointing miss by Duke on a fantastic throw by Allen. The future looks bright. So who are the WRs in the draft who are big, fast and sure-handed? Whoever they are, that's priority #1. I agree with you that Williams makes that catch 8 out of 10 times. I do think he should have been active all season as well. The future is bright. Beane made a point at his presser to day about putting more talent around Allen. As for receivers in the draft, I'm personally hoping Beane can get Shenault in the 1st round; however, there are a number of good ones. Beane knows what he needs to do and I believe he will find a way to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Duke made a solid contribution to the playoff game and was a "go to" guy to an extent, on occasion. One has to ask the question: "Where the hell was he all year long?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Can we talk about what a phenomenal throw that was? 6 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 I remember people using catch per target percentage as a knock against Zay Jones even if it wasn't his fault that the ball wasn't a completion. Duke in week 17 had a 50% catch/target percentage (6 catches on 12 targets) Duke in the WC game had a 40% catch/target percentage. (4 catches on 10 targets) So NOW we're going to acknowledge that it's not always on the WR? Interesting... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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