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Can we really be upset with the Bills scoring 19 points when no team scored more than 20 in Regulation on Wild Card Weekend?


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2 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

Crazy part was we put up the most offensive yards on Wildcard Weekend of any team with 425.

Missed opportunities. Yardage on O and D isn’t as important as scoring. Points scored, points allowed and differential are better indicators of overall team performance. 

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12 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

That's how I feel to.  Allen did well in his first playoff game on the road.  And for those saying the Texans had a weak defense that's NOT true when Watt is out there.  He really sparked them.  And it would be fair to point out that the Texans playing without Fuller are not a good offense by any stretch of the imagination.

 

And while on the topic of our defense McD & Bean are going to have to take a long hard look at their strategy of putting the D first in building this team.  IMO it's NOT good enough.  I know what the stats say but stats lie.  Our D has let teams drive the ball down our throats at critical points in a game all year long.  On top of that they've done a piss poor job of forcing TO's that result in points.  NO TD's and only ONE forced TO in an opponents red zone. 

 

Look at yesterday's games, defenses were asked and came through in protecting small leads on days that their offenses were not producing.  For example TN's D made 14 points stand up & Seattle's D made 17 points stand up.  If our D was truly elite and a top 3 defense 19 points should have been enough to win the game and we never should have lost a 16 - 0 lead late in the 3rd quarter.

 

I'm thinking we would be better off letting the D slip back 20% while improving the Offense by 50%.  That seems to be the sweet spot for teams advancing in the playoffs.

 

Oh and one more point while I'm on a rant - if you're going to build your team around an elite defense at the expense of your offense then you better have AWESOME special teams.  And we don't have awesome ST's by a long shot.

 

 


Great points.  I’m really disgusted at the defense, given how heavily we’ve invested in it and the fact we have a defensive HC. 
 

When given a chance to knock off the Pats, they let NE punk them all day.  The same NE that’s basically an offensive corpse at this point. 
 

They get a pseudo-week off, then prepare for Houston.  
 

Proceed to blow a 16 point lead in the second half and, in retrospect, turn in the second worst performance of WC Weekend.  
 

They let Philly dominate them & gave up the lead to Baker Mayfield late.  
 

Hardly ever force turnovers.  Never score. 
 

This defense is good, but I’m not super impressed with them right now.  Not given the resources allocated.  Not exactly going to be clamoring to re-sign guys on that side of the ball.  We have our core pieces in place in White, Edmunds and Oliver.   If they want to get a pass rusher, fine, but re-sign the ones who don’t break the bank and let’s focus on this offense. 
 

 

Edited by SCBills
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Honestly, what do the other games have to do with our specific matchup against Houston? This logic makes no sense.

 

Yes, we should be disappointed. Our offenses under McD have been poor. We can’t constantly rely on our defense to keep us in games.

Edited by Bangarang
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8 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

 

Look at yesterday's games, defenses were asked and came through in protecting small leads on days that their offenses were not producing.  For example TN's D made 14 points stand up & Seattle's D made 17 points stand up.  If our D was truly elite and a top 3 defense 19 points should have been enough to win the game and we never should have lost a 16 - 0 lead late in the 3rd quarter.

 

 

 

 

Come on.  Tennessee shut down a totally anemic offense with a QB who doesn't look anything like the GOAT and with no receivers.   Seattle beat a 40-year old journeyman backup leading a team that was playing without its entire starting receiving corps.   The Bills were playing against a top 10 QB and a consensus multi-year All-Pro wideout.   

 

All these comparisons are silly.   The Bills were a good but not great team.  The Bills had flaws.   They lost on the road to a good but not great team with flaws.  Half the teams that played this weekend lost.   

 

 

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4 minutes ago, SCBills said:


Great points.  I’m really disgusted at the defense, given how heavily we’ve invested in it and the fact we have a defensive HC. 
 

When given a chance to knock off the Pats, they let NE punk them all day.  The same NE that’s basically an offensive corpse at this point. 
 

They get a pseudo-week off, then prepare for Houston.  
 

Proceed to blow a 16 point lead in the second half and, in retrospect, turn in the second worst performance of WC Weekend.  
 

They let Philly dominate them & gave up the lead to Baker Mayfield late.  
 

Hardly ever force turnovers.  Never score. 
 

This defense is good, but I’m not super impressed with them right now.  Not given the resources allocated and return that was given by that side of the ball.   Not exactly going to be clamoring to re-sign guys on that side of the ball.  We have our core pieces in place in White, Edmunds and Oliver.   If they want to get a pass rusher, fine, but re-sign the ones who don’t break the bank and let’s focus on this offense. 
 

 

 

We are definitely on the same page here.  I just spent the day arguing with my circle of Bill's fans down here in Cincy saying exactly what you just posted. 

 

If I was Czar of the Bills I would work towards having a good but not great defense and switch priority to building at the minimum a very good offense.  I would role the dice on Allen and turn over the keys to the offense to him.  Sure Sign White & both D lineman but that's it.  The rest of the money and energy is going into the offense.  And we should fundamentally change the nature of our offense from a mistake free, low scoring unit designed to NOT lose a game to a high scoring risk taking venture. 

 

Much in the way Levy went from a conventional offense to the no huddle O after the 1989 playoff loss.  I like (hope) that the loss to the Texans is this groups 1989 playoff loss to the Browns.  But that will only happen if McD opens up his eyes and sees what needs to be done to change how the Bills play D.

 

 

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I believe the other wildcard games do matter, because we are talking about the playoff field rather than the at-large NFL . Matchups are closer than most in the regular season. So yes, how did the Bills performance stack up relative to the field? It has relevance, and it’s an interesting look as regular season numbers can be inflated by many factors. How do teams do in a win or go home situation vs a good opponent ? It’s not all telling, but it’s interesting nonetheless. 

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7 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Come on.  Tennessee shut down a totally anemic offense with a QB who doesn't look anything like the GOAT and with no receivers.   Seattle beat a 40-year old journeyman backup leading a team that was playing without its entire starting receiving corps.   The Bills were playing against a top 10 QB and a consensus multi-year All-Pro wideout.   

 

All these comparisons are silly.   The Bills were a good but not great team.  The Bills had flaws.   They lost on the road to a good but not great team with flaws.  Half the teams that played this weekend lost.   

 

 


That same anemic NE offense ran roughshod over our defense a few weeks ago.  

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50 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

I know the Bills should have scored more with all their chances, but I think all the teams could be saying that.  None of the 8 teams scored more than 20 points in regulation on Wild Card Weekend so the Bills were not the only ones who had offensive issues putting up points.

 

However, the Bills were the only road team not to win this weekend as Tennessee, Minnesota and Seattle all went on the road and came away with victories.  I remember when home field advantage was worth a LOT in the playoffs in the NFL but know it almost seems like a disadvantage. Kind of crazy.  Seems to not just be the NFL but all sports...look at the World Series this year when the road team won every game, going 7-0.

True but the Bills anemic offense have been all season long. The other teams may have scored less than 20 in the playoffs but in the regular season they have had multiple occasions where the have put up 30 or 40 points. Not the Bills.

The Bills have lacked a killer instinct all season long. They become very conservative when they get leads. This is a McDermott play it safe mindset...sometimes you have to go for the kill.

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3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Come on.  Tennessee shut down a totally anemic offense with a QB who doesn't look anything like the GOAT and with no receivers.   Seattle beat a 40-year old journeyman backup leading a team that was playing without its entire starting receiving corps.   The Bills were playing against a top 10 QB and a consensus multi-year All-Pro wideout.   

 

All these comparisons are silly.   The Bills were a good but not great team.  The Bills had flaws.   They lost on the road to a good but not great team with flaws.  Half the teams that played this weekend lost.   

 

 

 

The Texans without Fuller are not a very productive offense either.  Watkins is a great QB but my point is if the Bills D can't make a 16 - 0 late 3rd quarter lead hold up then it's time to reexamine McD's overarching strategy.

 

I agree that we're probably a year ahead of schedule and that there are holes to fill.  But this off season is going to be critical to how the Bills perform over the next 5 years in a way that a single off season hasn't been in a long time.  I feel like we're at an inflection point teetering between being really good and a regular threat to challenge for a Super Bowl and being an occasional playoff team that loses in the 1st round.  Remember I live in Cincinnati so I know intimately what those types of teams look like.

 

If I'm right, then we're sitting at 1989 where it took a brilliant change in direction by Levy & Polian to create one of the greatest collections of football talent in NFL history.  Levy went completely outside his comfort zone in adopting the no huddle offense and putting the O in the hands of Kelly.  I believe that McD faces a similar choice.  This time it's whether we sacrifice some of the defense to focus on the offense and whether we give Allen the keys to the car and let him stay out all night with it.

 

Last season McD & Bean played it safe on offense.  They brought in two solid professional receivers in Beasley & Brown and a good blocking TE in Kroft.  They upgraded a disaster of an O-line again bringing in solid, but not spectacular men who could do the job but were unlikely to dominate.  Sticking with the conventional approach they brought in Gore as a high character guy and hit pay dirt at RB with a 3rd round draft pick.  They beat Allen's hero ball out of him in the off season and they did a nice job of reining in his running and improving his short & intermediate passing accuracy.  All of this resulted in real improvements on Offense and contributed to making the playoffs.

 

But IMO playing it safe on offense while depending on the D to carry us WILL NOT TAKE Us to the next level.  I think Allen has shown enough for Bean & McD to hand him the keys to the offense and for them to put the bulk of the Bills money & energy into this unit.  It could crash & burn but it also could launch this team into the stratosphere.  But if they continue to make safe, incremental improvements in the offense while further working to refine Allen's game management skills I fear we'll be an every other year playoff team making early rounds exits from the post season. 

 

I just believe this is the off season for bold, imaginative moves on the Bill's part.  All we have to do is look at what Baltimore has done.  They are now the cream of the crop becasue their GM & HC took a HUGE gamble on the direction of their team.  I just don't see us getting to the next level without taking a similar gamble.

 

 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Come on.  Tennessee shut down a totally anemic offense with a QB who doesn't look anything like the GOAT and with no receivers.   Seattle beat a 40-year old journeyman backup leading a team that was playing without its entire starting receiving corps.   The Bills were playing against a top 10 QB and a consensus multi-year All-Pro wideout.   

 

All these comparisons are silly.   The Bills were a good but not great team.  The Bills had flaws.   They lost on the road to a good but not great team with flaws.  Half the teams that played this weekend lost.   

 

 

And even in losing, the NE D limited one of the hottest offenses in the league to 14 and Philly held Wilson, Lockett, Metcalf, etc. to 17 points.

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The problem was the 3 and outs in the 2nd half giving our defense no time to rest. This is Daboll giving up the idea of creative run plays to put all of the pressure on Allen.

 

We moved the ball exceptionally well with misdirection and great running plays for 1 possession. Then Daboll became possessed with weak play-calling. 

 

I know the knee-jerk reaction is to blame Allen's 2nd half performance, which was poor, the truth is he wasn't put in a position to succeed. 

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1 hour ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

no team scored more than 20 in regulation, yet our vaunted defense gave up 19 points in the last 21:00 of regulation time.  

How about Houston didnt score until there was only 16:33 left in the game.

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12 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

The Texans without Fuller are not a very productive offense either.  Watkins is a great QB but my point is if the Bills D can't make a 16 - 0 late 3rd quarter lead hold up then it's time to reexamine McD's overarching strategy.

 

I agree that we're probably a year ahead of schedule and that there are holes to fill.  But this off season is going to be critical to how the Bills perform over the next 5 years in a way that a single off season hasn't been in a long time.  I feel like we're at an inflection point teetering between being really good and a regular threat to challenge for a Super Bowl and being an occasional playoff team that loses in the 1st round.  Remember I live in Cincinnati so I know intimately what those types of teams look like.

 

If I'm right, then we're sitting at 1989 where it took a brilliant change in direction by Levy & Polian to create one of the greatest collections of football talent in NFL history.  Levy went completely outside his comfort zone in adopting the no huddle offense and putting the O in the hands of Kelly.  I believe that McD faces a similar choice.  This time it's whether we sacrifice some of the defense to focus on the offense and whether we give Allen the keys to the car and let him stay out all night with it.

 

Last season McD & Bean played it safe on offense.  They brought in two solid professional receivers in Beasley & Brown and a good blocking TE in Kroft.  They upgraded a disaster of an O-line again bringing in solid, but not spectacular men who could do the job but were unlikely to dominate.  Sticking with the conventional approach they brought in Gore as a high character guy and hit pay dirt at RB with a 3rd round draft pick.  They beat Allen's hero ball out of him in the off season and they did a nice job of reining in his running and improving his short & intermediate passing accuracy.  All of this resulted in real improvements on Offense and contributed to making the playoffs.

 

But IMO playing it safe on offense while depending on the D to carry us WILL NOT TAKE Us to the next level.  I think Allen has shown enough for Bean & McD to hand him the keys to the offense and for them to put the bulk of the Bills money & energy into this unit.  It could crash & burn but it also could launch this team into the stratosphere.  But if they continue to make safe, incremental improvements in the offense while further working to refine Allen's game management skills I fear we'll be an every other year playoff team making early rounds exits from the post season. 

 

I just believe this is the off season for bold, imaginative moves on the Bill's part.  All we have to do is look at what Baltimore has done.  They are now the cream of the crop becasue their GM & HC took a HUGE gamble on the direction of their team.  I just don't see us getting to the next level without taking a similar gamble.

 

 

 

 

I don't think that it is at all time to reexamine McDermott's overarching strategy.   I think you just stated his overacrching objective.   

 

He's not trying to be Beane's Levy.  That team was built in a time where teams could accumulate talent.   NOBODY in the last 20 years has acquired the likes of Reed, Thomas, Kelly, Lofton, Smith and their supporting cast of characters.  Nobody.  

 

But McDermott's overarching strategy is not and never was, as you suggest, to depend on the defense to carry the team to the next level.   He's been very clear that his vision is excellence in all three phrases.   It turns out that in part because of his talent, and because he was able to add Poyer, Hyde and White to go with Kyle, Jerry and Lorenzo, McDermott was able to build a good defense faster than an offense.   He had pretty much no offensive line, no receivers and no quarterback.   Yes, he had Watkins, who clearly had an attitude problem, and Woods, who they should have kept.  So the defense is ahead of the offense. 

 

But it's ridiculous to suggest that he somehow isn't interested in the offense. 

 

And you're going to be sadly disappointed if you expect them to go on some wild spending spree to put them into the stratosphere.  This isn't 1990 - you can't buy a top notch team.   And they've told us, over and over, that their objective is not to get to the top fast; their objective is to get to the top in a way that is sustainable.   They're going to build to make 2020 better than 2019, and then they're going to build to make 2021 better than 2020.   

 

 

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1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

Honestly, what do the other games have to do with our specific matchup against Houston? This logic makes no sense.

 

Yes, we should be disappointed. Our offenses under McD have been poor. We can’t constantly rely on our defense to keep us in games.


3rd and 18 is proof of that 

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1 hour ago, SCBills said:

Too many Bills fans in the stands.  Ruined the home field disadvantage. 
 

On a serious note... I feel much better about Allen after watching WC Weekend.  Being the first game gave us somewhat of a false barometer.  
 

I also feel much worse about our defense.  Gave up the second highest point total while blowing a 16 point lead in one half.  Not one QB looked as dominant as Watson did against our defense when it mattered.  

 

Our defense has some Achilles heels and they seem to have been identified 

Then there are the problems tackling

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24 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't think that it is at all time to reexamine McDermott's overarching strategy.   I think you just stated his overacrching objective.   

 

He's not trying to be Beane's Levy.  That team was built in a time where teams could accumulate talent.   NOBODY in the last 20 years has acquired the likes of Reed, Thomas, Kelly, Lofton, Smith and their supporting cast of characters.  Nobody.  

 

But McDermott's overarching strategy is not and never was, as you suggest, to depend on the defense to carry the team to the next level.   He's been very clear that his vision is excellence in all three phrases.   It turns out that in part because of his talent, and because he was able to add Poyer, Hyde and White to go with Kyle, Jerry and Lorenzo, McDermott was able to build a good defense faster than an offense.   He had pretty much no offensive line, no receivers and no quarterback.   Yes, he had Watkins, who clearly had an attitude problem, and Woods, who they should have kept.  So the defense is ahead of the offense. 

 

But it's ridiculous to suggest that he somehow isn't interested in the offense. 

 

And you're going to be sadly disappointed if you expect them to go on some wild spending spree to put them into the stratosphere.  This isn't 1990 - you can't buy a top notch team.   And they've told us, over and over, that their objective is not to get to the top fast; their objective is to get to the top in a way that is sustainable.   They're going to build to make 2020 better than 2019, and then they're going to build to make 2021 better than 2020.   

 

 

 

I agree that it's a lot harder today to build what the Bills had during their SB runs.  But the decision to give Kelly control of the offense and switch to the no huddle didn't cost the Bills a penny. 

 

And McD saying he wants "excellence" in all three phases of the game is just boiler plate talk along the lines of it's good to solve world hunger.  I judge a coach & organization by their actions and it's clear to me that McD/Bean aren't focused on the offense in the same way they're focused on the defense.  Whether you're talking about where the money is going to whose being signed in FA to who are we taking in the draft and where are we taking them. 

 

I believe that McD & Bean are committed to putting the clubs energy & money into the defense while hoping to build an effective offense on the cheap.  And that's fine as strategies go for taking a team from the bottom to near the top.  New England made it work for years.  What I'm saying though is that to truly establish yourself among the "elite" the focus needs to be more on the offense then this organization has committed to.

 

And I'm not just talking spending money here.  In fact I tend to agree with you that going on a shopping spree (money & trading away future draft picks) to load up the offense is not the way to go here.  The Rams are going to be paying a steep price for what they did and they have no SB trophy to show for it.  But I'm talking about way more then parlaying future picks and breaking the bank to sign FA's.  I'm talking about everything from talent acquisition to game planning to the tactical execution of the game plan.  It's pretty clear that once the Bills get up by 2 scores at any point in the game and/or are up by more then a FG late in the game we go into an offensive shell and turn it over to the D to win the game.

 

And even in talent acquisition we go the safe rout.  Look how we passed on that WR that went to SF right before the trade deadline.  He has single handily turned Jimmy G's game around or that RB who the Cards picked up.  We could have used either guy.  That's the type of "bold" moves I'm talking about.  And for the record I wouldn't get within 10 miles of AB or either of those Cleveland WR's. 

 

I get the incremental approach but I'm not confident that it alone can work.  Of course I'll gladly be willing to be proven wrong.  In fact I hope I am wrong here as following the approach they've been taking is a much safer approach then what I'm arguing for. 

 

Edited by CincyBillsFan
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