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To All the People Saying They Went Into a Shell up 16-0...You're Missing the Strategy


HardyBoy

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3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No they didn't. As @Coach Tuesday rightly spotted Josh checked into that run. It was 100% not the call. He killed the call very clearly.

 

Exactly why we need to wait for the All 22...Allen literary lost his mind yesterday I think...it happens when you are in super stressful situations.  Not a knock, it's why people go through crazy training for war (not in any way comparing war and a football game except both are stressful...obviously one is literally life and death and the other isn't at all, but brains have a hard time telling sometime). It happened to LeBron in the finals...dude wouldn't post up a guard who would have scored on every single possession in crunch time.

 

He might have checked into runs on all those Gore runs for all we know. Singletary was struggling in pass pro, makes sense they would put Gore in to protect

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2 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

This makes no sense to me. 

 

If McDermott wasn't playing for a 3 score lead to end the first half, he would have ran the clock down with runs then kicked the FG. Instead, he was aggressive by letting his 2nd-year QB throw pass attempts into the end zone.

 

If D'haquille doesn't drop a touchdown in the end zone, it's 17-0 Bills at halftime. How is that McDermott's fault?

 

Pass attempt, not attempts.

 

Duke not coming down with that ball was not McDermott's fault.

 

McDermott's fault was the fact that that was the ONLY meaningful play in that sequence when there should have been 4 or 5 more.

 

2 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

My problem with the coaching occurred in overtime when they forgot Singletary existed and decided to treat their offensive possession like a 2-minute drill even though there's virtually no game clock in overtime in the playoffs.

 

Absolutely. Another irritating aspect of coaching in this game.

 

2 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Up to that point I thought McDermott put the players in place to win the game and the players failed to execute.

 

If the Buffalo Bills offense were capable of scoring 100 points per game, they would. McDermott isn't telling them not to score. They're simply not good enough (yet?).

 

Disagree. It's easy to say this when you just look at the boxscore, but when you actually watch the game and see Frank Gore get 8 runs and Motor get 13, there's a problem. You'd think the coaches would figure out that those constant stuffed runs are problematic after one or two of them, but no, other than that one 14 yard scamper, Gore gained 8 yards on 7 carries.

 

Why the hell wasn't Singletary in there getting the ball? 13 carries... he wasn't tired.

 

I just sincerely hope McDermott finds a way to learn from this year and we see real growth in his gameday coaching next year.

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Just now, HardyBoy said:

 

Exactly why we need to wait for the All 22...Allen literary lost his mind yesterday I think...it happens when you are in super stressful situations.  Not a knock, it's why people go through crazy training for war (not in any way comparing war and a football game except both are stressful...obviously one is literally life and death and the other isn't at all, but brains have a hard time telling sometime). It happened to LeBron in the finals...dude wouldn't post up a guard who would have scored on every single possession in crunch time.

 

He might have checked into runs on all those Gore runs for all we know. Singletary was struggling in pass pro, makes sense they would put Gore in to protect

 

I think that is exactly why Gore was on the field in that position. I don't think it was ever the intention for him to get the ball. Now I have no idea what they said to Josh during the time out about what he should do if he didn't like the look on the play he got. Maybe they said nothing. And if so that is on them. But Josh checked into that run. It was not called. 

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10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No they didn't. As @Coach Tuesday rightly spotted Josh checked into that run. It was 100% not the call. He killed the call very clearly.

 

Haven't watched it again.

 

Curious if it was and wonder if Allen or McDermott have been asked about it.

 

If Allen did that, it's mostly on him.

 

Except....

 

Why was he allowed to in that situation?

 

Why wouldn't Daboll tell him in the headset there should be no reason to kill the play? Seems like Allen would've been given a look and that if he saw or did not see that look, Daboll would tell him NOT to kill it in that scenario.

 

Still goes back to coaching.

 

 

 

As for the players you claim Elite, I think we have different understandings of that word.

 

Gronk? Last year? Elite? Really???

 

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46 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Gronk? Last year? Elite? Really???

 

 

Yes. Banged up - sure. But when he was out there he was still an elite contributor as a blocker and a receiver. If you pro-rata his numbers for a full season he was just short of a thousand yards. 

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1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think that is exactly why Gore was on the field in that position. I don't think it was ever the intention for him to get the ball. Now I have no idea what they said to Josh during the time out about what he should do if he didn't like the look on the play he got. Maybe they said nothing. And if so that is on them. But Josh checked into that run. It was not called. 

 

This makes me think of the Brown to Singletary TD pass against Dallas. Allen said after the game he was supposed to check out of that play if the defense was in zone. Maybe they had a trick play drawn up but the defensive look meant he was supposed to kill the play. Whatever the reason it was an awful play call.

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7 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

The only goal there is to get up by three scores, period, end of story. They were in perfect position to do that before the Watt sack and Allen got rattled after that, which happens and impacted everything that came after it...and they still almost won. Put away the pitchforks.

 

That was the biggest game of Josh Allen's life he'll learn from this. Shoot it took Lebron James getting posted up by JJ Barea and the Mavs to learn the lessons that allowed him to mentally excel in that level of stress and expectation.

Ummm GTFOMF with that bulls&$@! A good team should of kept their foot on the gas and not let up until it was 30 nothing . We all see how effective field goals are. I don't want to hear it was only playcalling. The conservative second half was crap. The calls and the play all the way around. It's why they cleaned their lockers out today.

Period.

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17 minutes ago, BeefCurtns said:

Ummm GTFOMF with that bulls&$@! A good team should of kept their foot on the gas and not let up until it was 30 nothing . We all see how effective field goals are. I don't want to hear it was only playcalling. The conservative second half was crap. The calls and the play all the way around. It's why they cleaned their lockers out today.

Period.

 

Yes, I'm not talking about football in general or coaching philosophy overall. At the start of the second half up 16-0, going up by 3 scores is going for the throat.  Doesn't matter if it's a fg or a touchdown there. Whatever is the most likely way to go up by three scores in that situation is the best strategy.

 

Also, the Falcons were only up 28-3, so not by 30...going for "the throat" cost them a Super Bowl without question.

Edited by HardyBoy
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7 hours ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

I'd trust the defense to hang on to a 16 point lead too.

 

But going into a prevent defense and giving up a 3rd and 18 late in the game is going way too far in that shell.

My big problem with this is when you are going to protect and lead and control a clock

 

RUN THE FRIGGEN BALL

 

Devin S. was having a good game.....and we kept throwing throwing throwing

 

There were times I agreed with it.....we took two end zone shots (that a larger receiver/better receiver probably catches)

 

But for the most part?   We stopped running the ball when we should have been converting first downs....chewing up clock......and forcing them into making mistakes because the time was running out on them.

 

Debol messed up

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8 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

 
I think that comparing Jim Kelly to Josh Allen will lead you to the answer 

No the real reason is:

Let’s compare the offenses...

90s: Andre Reed, James Lofton, Don Beebe, Keith McKellar, Thurman Thomas, Kenny Davis

   Vs.  

2019  John Brown, Beasley,  McKenzie/Williams , Knox, Singletary, Gore 

 

if you put today’s roster in 1990 

Brown might by the WR3, Singletary would be RB2 and Knox might be the TE. Likely the rest of the guys wouldn’t make the team and none of them would start. So how many points would Josh put up with that lineup? 

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43 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

My big problem with this is when you are going to protect and lead and control a clock

 

RUN THE FRIGGEN BALL

 

Devin S. was having a good game.....and we kept throwing throwing throwing

 

There were times I agreed with it.....we took two end zone shots (that a larger receiver/better receiver probably catches)

 

But for the most part?   We stopped running the ball when we should have been converting first downs....chewing up clock......and forcing them into making mistakes because the time was running out on them.

 

Debol messed up

 

So that's not conservative play calling then (not saying you are saying they went conservative). Again, I would argue that it was worth being aggressive to get a field goal asap out of halftime. Now that for sure could mean run, protect the ball and play field position, and that's what they really were doing until the sack by Watt caused the wheels to fall off.

 

I do think a field goal (three scores really, in the least risky way) is worth taking some risks that you extend the game some (passing instead of running like you mentioned), because up three scores is really tough to see them coming back from there.

 

That said, my understanding of football strategy is that of a casual fan, so I could be wrong on the best way to get there, but making it a three score game was insanely important. Houston not only stopped it from happening, but they kept it a one score game with the 2pt converstion...that sack by Watt was huge.

 

I'm arguing Dabol actually called a conservative pass with a half field read the throw it away, but Allen did hero ball (only way to explain Ford on Watt island)

Edited by HardyBoy
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3 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

 

So that's not conservative play calling then (not saying you are saying they went conservative). Again, I would argue that it was worth being aggressive to get a field goal asap out of halftime. Now that for sure could mean run, protect the ball and play field position, and that's what they really were doing until the sack by Watt caused the wheels to fall off.

 

I do think a field goal (three scores really, in the least risky way) is worth taking some risks that you extend the game some (passing instead of running like you mentioned), because up three scores is really tough to see them coming back from there.

 

That said, my understanding of football strategy is that of a casual fan, so I could be wrong on the best way to get there, but making it a three score game was insanely important. Houston not only stopped it from happening, but they kept it a one score game with the 2pt converstion...that sack by Watt was huge.

 

I'm arguing Dabol actually called a conservative pass with a half field read the throw it away, but Allen did hero ball (only way to explain Ford on Watt island)

What I am saying is if your gonna play conservative with 16 points then the best way to win the game is to keep your offense on the field and the clock running.....it accomplishes two things

 

- The other team starts getting desperate and gets one dimensional quick....a lot easier to get to a QB that gets to one dimensional

 

- If you chew up clock....then make them half to drive the length of the field chewing up clock..it basically ends the game if your not giving up points IF YOU DONT TURN THE BALL OVER.....Josh's turning the ball over  on that QB run really hurt us...it was a turning point of the game.

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11 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

 

For sure on the 3rd and 18, but we need to wait for the All-22 before we can say too much there...could have been a blown coverage or a great play call against the defense that opened the middle if the field up. The issue is he wasn't contacted 5 yards sooner, not that they were in a shell.

I watched the replay...after the ball was snapped the defense kept drifting further and further back beyond the first down marker...so that when the the dump pass was made, they could not make up the ground in time to stop the runner before the first down...had they just played their regular D they would have made the stop...bad call by Frazier...bad call by McD not to override...

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11 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

The only goal there is to get up by three scores, period, end of story. They were in perfect position to do that before the Watt sack and Allen got rattled after that, which happens and impacted everything that came after it...and they still almost won. Put away the pitchforks.

 

That was the biggest game of Josh Allen's life he'll learn from this. Shoot it took Lebron James getting posted up by JJ Barea and the Mavs to learn the lessons that allowed him to mentally excel in that level of stress and expectation.

 

BS, the only goal is for the offense to score every drive (unless the its the end of the game)  and the defense to stop scoring every drive.

 

sitting on a lead is stupid and will not work, as this game showed. We should be advancing period.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

BS, the only goal is for the offense to score every drive (unless the its the end of the game)  and the defense to stop scoring every drive.

 

sitting on a lead is stupid and will not work, as this game showed. We should be advancing period.

 

 

 

How is trying to extend the lead to three scores just sitting on the lead?

4 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

I watched the replay...after the ball was snapped the defense kept drifting further and further back beyond the first down marker...so that when the the dump pass was made, they could not make up the ground in time to stop the runner before the first down...had they just played their regular D they would have made the stop...bad call by Frazier...bad call by McD not to override...

 

That was their regular d...that's the point, someone said earlier it was a standard cover 4 defense, not prevent. From what I've gathered Edmunds dropped too far back, which was a mistake by a player, and a mistake in the playcall. 

 

The receiver catching the ball 10 yards from the first with the entire defense ready to swarm is exactly what you want...Edmunds got too far away to swarm, he didn't cover his responsibility from the sound of it...he'll learn.

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15 hours ago, Penfield45 said:

if you can't score more than 1 TD against the 28th ranked defense in the league you don't deserve to move on in the playoffs. STOP blaming the defense 

 

we would have been humiliated by KC or Baltimore in the next round. this offense isn't good enough for playoff football. 

or if your defense can't hold a 16 - 0 lead against the 15th ranked offense with 1 1/2 minutes left in the 3rd quarter, the defense is to blame also! 

Edited by pop gun
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16 hours ago, Real McNasty said:

Was the 2nd half the Texans O half time adjustments or our D scheme? It's crazy how badly the D dominated the Texans the first half only giving them 91yards of total offense. Then the 2nd half happened. Not stopping them 2X on 2pt conversions alone is uncharacteristic.

 

3rd and 18 simply cannot happen. :(

 

I think it was a mix of Texans adjustments, Bills energy wearing out a bit, and Watson just settling in. Watson was flat out missing a lot of open receivers in the first half (as in, not seeing them) that could have gone for big plays. He also didn't use his legs nearly as much as he did in the 2nd half. On top of that, the defensive line just didn't get home as consistently in the 2nd half, and even when they did, you could tell they had lost their edge (i.e. everyone doing the air guitar celebration after every big play early in the game versus being stoic in the 2nd half).

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16 hours ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

I'd trust the defense to hang on to a 16 point lead too.

 

But going into a prevent defense and giving up a 3rd and 18 late in the game is going way too far in that shell.

Or maybe U don't rely on your D to shutdown every O...and send your O out there to put TD's on the scoreboard.....then stuff like this don't happen.

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