Who would you rather be a fan of today?

[oldmanfan]

Just now, JaCrispy said:

Well, FA future is certainly bright...

 

Draft future is certainly bright...

 

FO future is certainly bright...

 

But McD still does not have basic understanding of in game management- which is very troubling...I called it two weeks ago...his awful in game management was gonna come back to bite us in the ass...only reason we got away with it before was because we had a crap schedule...

 

And after two seasons, I’m still not sold on Josh Allen as a franchise QB...to me he is only a “franchise” QB in name only because he was drafted in the top 10 and because we have no one else...but it’s not like he has earned the franchise QB status by his play imo...to me, a franchise QB is someone you are confident will play better than Allen did all season long...sure, he shows some nice things from time to time, but against the easiest schedule in the league he still managed to put up some of the most pedestrian numbers...on top of that, his decision making still remains well below that of a franchise QB and borderline “WTF”...fingers crossed on that front...

 

So, sure, some things may seem bright, but there are still some things that remain very murky...they could work out, but at this point it’s not very clear or “bright” that they will.  This is just my opinion, of course, as I’m sure some will have disagreements. 
 

PS...Joe, you are on my ignore list, so if you choose to respond, fortunately for me, I will not be able to see it. ?

I would say your expectations for a second year QB are off base.  He does some head scratching things to be sure but he also is the guy who got the team to the playoffs, got them downfield to tie it in regulation and had them in position to win in OT absent that blind side call.

 

Do you believe young QBs get better with time, do they learn by experience?

[Best Williams Available]

2 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

I remain completely confident in the coaching staff and front office.   That doesn't mean I always agree with their decisions, but I do agree with their philosophy, foresight, and dedication to the process. 

They have shown on numerous occasions to be able to identify and acknowledge when they’re wrong and correct it. I think that shows they know they’re still learning. The hard part, being a leader of men, is why most coaches fail. I think this staff has that.

 

I’m not certain how McD gets better in-game though, that’s his biggest weakness and it doesn’t seem to be improving. His personnel decisions could use some upgrade as well. 
 

Overall we are in a good position comparatively, but unless the coaches and young talent make some leaps quickly our window may start to close.

[Sundancer]

7 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I would say your expectations for a second year QB are off base.  He does some head scratching things to be sure but he also is the guy who got the team to the playoffs, got them downfield to tie it in regulation and had them in position to win in OT absent that blind side call.

 

Do you believe young QBs get better with time, do they learn by experience?

 

Right. Watson won his first playoff game yesterday. You don't always start with a win. 

 

I look around the NFL at a lot of dreck QBs. Allen may not be a world-beater at the moment but if someone out there thinks there's a free agent or 22nd draft pick QB better than Allen and the future he has, you're high. 

3 minutes ago, Best Williams Available said:

They have shown on numerous occasions to be able to identify and acknowledge when they’re wrong and correct it. I think that shows they know they’re still learning. The hard part, being a leader of men, is why most coaches fail. I think this staff has that.

 

I’m not certain how McD gets better in-game though, that’s his biggest weakness and it doesn’t seem to be improving. His personnel decisions could use some upgrade as well. 
 

 

I hear this a lot. They won this year because they had a team built to win with defense. They have yet to have a team built to win on offense. Next year should see an improved offense...many returning players and 1-2 new faces at important positions like RT and WR1. 

 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Sundancer

[Motorin']

2 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

So you completely discount McDermott being able to grow and evolve?

 

McDermott has to commit himself to mastering the offensive side of the ball as well as the defensive side. He needs to develop a killer instinct, and be able to direct the overall management of the Offensive game plan.

 

I'd love to know who called the Frank Gore up the gut play at the end of the first half. If it was Daboll, McD has to veto that in the moment and realize that they have 3 shots at the endzone. Running Gore necessitates spiking the ball, and burns 2 shots. 

 

Several other instances where great Head Coaches would instinctively know the strategy needed to go for the jugular. McD needs to grow and learn in that regard. 

 

[Best Williams Available]

5 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

 

Right. Watson won his first playoff game yesterday. You don't always start with a win. 

 

I look around the NFL at a lot of dreck QBs. Allen may not be a world-beater at the moment but if someone out there thinks there's a free agent or 22nd draft pick QB better than Allen and the future he has, you're high. 

 

I hear this a lot. They won this year because they had a team built to win with defense. They have yet to have a team built to win on offense. Next year should see an improved offense...many returning players and 1-2 new faces at important positions like RT and WR1. 

 

Right! We know their win/loss scoring above or below 20 pts. The D has shown consistently to be able to hold anybody to around that number. The offense needs to average another 6 pts/game (at least) and then you’ll see us winning close games against good teams and blowing out bad teams. A WR, RT, reliable TE, and good backup RB could easily get us those 6 pts. Let’s hope the staff hits on those.

[DuckyBoys]

They need to be all in on Josh Allen.  Get some help so he is not 90% of the offense.  You want to win with him on his rookie deal and then you can decide what to do. Put personnel into spots where they can succeed.  That means don't put special teams guys out into 5 wr sets in OT of a playoff game.  Put the ball into your play makers hands  Devin Singeltary is a budding superstar you need to work with that and get a 2nd talented explosive back. Get outside wrs . 5' 7" guys belong in the slot exclusively .  Get a big physical TE who can work in the red zone.  Stop the Cody Ford at tackle debacle.

 

McDermott needs to be more open minded with personnel  Not using Singeltary early in the year.  Nathan Peterman!  Continuing to rely on Foster, Roberts, Kroft, Dimarco week after week on offense

[Putin]

9 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Well, FA future is certainly bright...

 

Draft future is certainly bright...

 

FO future is certainly bright...

 

But McD still does not have basic understanding of in game management- which is very troubling...I called it two weeks ago...his awful in game management was gonna come back to bite us in the ass...only reason we got away with it before was because we had a crap schedule...

 

And after two seasons, I’m still not sold on Josh Allen as a franchise QB...to me he is only a “franchise” QB in name only because he was drafted in the top 10 and because we have no one else...but it’s not like he has earned the franchise QB status by his play imo...to me, a franchise QB is someone you are confident will play better than Allen did all season long...sure, he shows some nice things from time to time, but against the easiest schedule in the league he still managed to put up some of the most pedestrian numbers...on top of that, his decision making still remains well below that of a franchise QB and borderline “WTF”...fingers crossed on that front...

 

So, sure, some things may seem bright, but there are still some things that remain very murky...they could work out, but at this point it’s not very clear or “bright” that they will.  This is just my opinion, of course, as I’m sure some will have disagreements. 
 

PS...Joe, you are on my ignore list, so if you choose to respond, fortunately for me, I will not be able to see it. ?

This is NOT a finished product even as far as the coaching staff goes , we are not DONE rebuilding or building how ever you choose to call it ESPECIALLY  when it comes to offense, when it comes to Allen let's not forget he's only 23 years old ( basically a kid ) I think this offseason we need to make some BIG moves to help the offense and we have $$$$ to do it , we have 9 draft picks as well , 

I think Bean did a hell of a job this offseason in bringing in some key free agents , and if we continue to draft well I think will be in great shape to compete for the division next year 

[JaCrispy]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

I would say your expectations for a second year QB are off base.  He does some head scratching things to be sure but he also is the guy who got the team to the playoffs, got them downfield to tie it in regulation and had them in position to win in OT absent that blind side call.

 

Do you believe young QBs get better with time, do they learn by experience?

Fair enough...I respect your opinion...I just happen to disagree...

 

You see, to me Josh Allen doesn’t make bone headed plays due to lack of experience...he’s been playing football his whole life...he makes bone headed plays because it’s in his DNA- this insatiable appetite to play back yard sandlot football or, as fans like to call it, “hero ball”.  He appears to loath the “boring” or routine plays that keep the chains moving- those plays don’t show up on highlight reels, they aren’t remembered as key plays to victory...he seeks the low percentage/ high reward dramatic plays that will, in his mind, “save the day” if successful.  He is not a cerebral or calculating QB playing chess, but a reckless gambler who thinks he can out macho everyone on the field...

 

Now, who knows...maybe I’m wrong about all this.  But to me, in order for the Bills to be successful- in order for Josh Allen to become a true franchise QB he is going to have to suppress the reckless gambler in him and start to become more of a calculating, cerebral QB.

[oldmanfan]

Just now, JaCrispy said:

Fair enough...I respect your opinion...I just happen to disagree...

 

You see, to me Josh Allen doesn’t make bone headed plays due to lack of experience...he’s been playing football his whole life...he makes bone headed plays because it’s in his DNA- this insatiable appetite to play back yard sandlot football or, as fans like to call it, “hero ball”.  He appears to loath the “boring” or routine plays that keep the chains moving- those plays don’t show up on highlight reels, they aren’t remembered as key plays to victory...he seeks the low percentage/ high reward dramatic plays that will, in his mind, “save the day” if successful.  He is not a cerebral or calculating QB playing chess, but a reckless gambler who thinks he can out macho everyone on the field...

 

Now, who knows...maybe I’m wrong about all this.  But to me, in order for the Bills to be successful- in order for Josh Allen to become a true franchise QB he is going to have to suppress the reckless gambler in him and start to become more of a calculating, cerebral QB.

And experience will help with that.  Someone at church this morning said Allen reminded them of Favre.  Not a bad comparison.

[RiotAct]

3 hours ago, CNYfan said:

The Bills lost 4 of their last 5 games.

I am concerned that next year will not be as kind in the schedule,  lack of injuries and some luck that got us to ten wins.

Good chance of regression,  and last night did nothing to assuage my concerns. 

 

 

ugh, that thought crossed my mind this morning also.  0% chance we have that same good injury luck next season.

[Tcali]

3 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

Fire Daboll, draft a wideout high and let’s do this 

caution there---we have fired o coordinators before who have actually been very good---see BALT. Also see Giants SB winners from several yrs ago.

We need JA to be much smarter. And we need a big tough RB to share time with Singletary.And we need a big receiver or 2.

Draft aint gonna do it we need to sign a free agent or 3.

[Putin]

4 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Fair enough...I respect your opinion...I just happen to disagree...

 

You see, to me Josh Allen doesn’t make bone headed plays due to lack of experience...he’s been playing football his whole life...he makes bone headed plays because it’s in his DNA- this insatiable appetite to play back yard sandlot football or, as fans like to call it, “hero ball”.  He appears to loath the “boring” or routine plays that keep the chains moving- those plays don’t show up on highlight reels, they aren’t remembered as key plays to victory...he seeks the low percentage/ high reward dramatic plays that will, in his mind, “save the day” if successful.  He is not a cerebral or calculating QB playing chess, but a reckless gambler who thinks he can out macho everyone on the field...

 

Now, who knows...maybe I’m wrong about all this.  But to me, in order for the Bills to be successful- in order for Josh Allen to become a true franchise QB he is going to have to suppress the reckless gambler in him and start to become more of a calculating, cerebral QB.

I think you make some good points here  ESPECIALLY about some of the bone headed plays ( because it's in his DNA ) 

i just hope that  with more playing time / experience and BETTER  weapons around him he will learn that he doesn't need to be the savior on every play / drive , and he will trust his surrounding cast to make the plays for him .....

 

[Zerovoltz]

Would have been cool to see a Chiefs - Bills matchup this week.  

 

I watched her the game.  I thought it was a pretty even matchup with the Bills having the better team and coaches but the Texans with the better QB overall.

 

This was Allen’s first go round in the Playoffs.  I think he will remember it and learn from it.  His 38% completion percentage in the 4th is something to think about.  Need better weapons? Yeah.  Maybe some better play calls?  Maybe?  

 

Its something to build on for sure.  Lots of good young talent and more to come this offseason.  I’d be stoked about 2020.

[SCBills]

54 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Fair enough...I respect your opinion...I just happen to disagree...

 

You see, to me Josh Allen doesn’t make bone headed plays due to lack of experience...he’s been playing football his whole life...he makes bone headed plays because it’s in his DNA- this insatiable appetite to play back yard sandlot football or, as fans like to call it, “hero ball”.  He appears to loath the “boring” or routine plays that keep the chains moving- those plays don’t show up on highlight reels, they aren’t remembered as key plays to victory...he seeks the low percentage/ high reward dramatic plays that will, in his mind, “save the day” if successful.  He is not a cerebral or calculating QB playing chess, but a reckless gambler who thinks he can out macho everyone on the field...

 

Now, who knows...maybe I’m wrong about all this.  But to me, in order for the Bills to be successful- in order for Josh Allen to become a true franchise QB he is going to have to suppress the reckless gambler in him and start to become more of a calculating, cerebral QB.

Trevor Lawrence does the same thing in college, but is throwing to Justin Ross and Tee Higgins.  
 

The problem comes when you have to pay the QB and can’t elevate him with a good OL and good WRs and good RBs, but we can at least give Allen some bigger targets.   
 

There’s a reason he kept going to Duke yesterday.  He didn’t just forget about Brown and Beasley.  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

12 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

Would have been cool to see a Chiefs - Bills matchup this week.  

 

I watched her the game.  I thought it was a pretty even matchup with the Bills having the better team and coaches but the Texans with the better QB overall.

 

This was Allen’s first go round in the Playoffs.  I think he will remember it and learn from it.  His 38% completion percentage in the 4th is something to think about.  Need better weapons? Yeah.  Maybe some better play calls?  Maybe?  

 

Its something to build on for sure.  Lots of good young talent and more to come this offseason.  I’d be stoked about 2020.

 

Amazing that a non-bills fan gets it, but kind of cool in a way, too.

 

[zow2]

4 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

I would rather my coaching staff not go into their turtle shell when up two scores. 
 

I would rather have my coaching staff to have a killer instinct. 
 

I would rather my coaching staff do what they preach and get better everyday. 

i Agree w most of that. But very late the Bills got overly aggressive and Allen was doing stupid stuff. Slinging passes that were not catchable out of the back of the end zone? Running backwards 15 yards on critical 3rd and 4th downs. Just ridiculous. Singletary was put on the shelf. Just thought they didn’t play within their strengths. Having Josh stand back there Like Bledsoe and sling it unfortunately is not a strength yet.

[Seoulofstone]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Watson did take over the game in the last Quarter and a half. He was not good first half but in the last Quarter and a half he rushed for a TD, rushed for the 2 pointer, threw a beauty to get them into scoring position again, threw a TD and a 2 pointer, and then escaped a certain two man sack to make the play that basically won them the game.

 

The people wanting to downplay that do themselves a disservice. 

 

So It's ok to give Watson credit for rushing for a TD on a scramble where the play broke down but many hold Josh's rushing as a sign that he can't QB? I admire Watson but I'm frustrated by how he is given credit where Josh isn't allowed it by so many people. Josh made several plays to put the Bills in FG position where the end result was negated by a mixture of penalties and ineptitude which pushed him out of FG range after a long drive. Where I give him criticism is the two meltdown plays which gave the Texans a way back.

 

 If you break down Watson's drives you can easily say he was clutch but he was constantly sacked for holding the ball too long and bailed himself out repeatedly with hero ball on plays like the 3rd and 18. This is the very thing which Josh gets huge criticism for. Let's not pretend Watson threw multiple pinpoint passes and TDs, or that many of the huge plays weren't due to YAC and missed tackles. Watson gets credit rightly for winning the game but neither he nor Hopkins had a world beating game.

 

 He had less passing yards than Allen (a stat that so often riles people), both had a turnover. Bills had more total yards, more rushing yards, better third down conversion. But because Texans won all of this is forgotten. Watson is capable of great plays but he did NOT have a great game.

[london_bills]

5 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

Who'd you rather be a fan of today? The Bills or:

 

The Patriots?

The Jets?

The Fish?

 

And that's just in our division. I'd rather be in OUR position than any of theirs.

 

OK, too small of a sample size for you? Well, how about we widen our search to the broader AFC as a whole:

 

Ravens?

Bengals?

Browns?

Steelers?

Texans?

Titans?

Colts?

Jaguars?

Chargers?

Raiders?

Broncos?

Chiefs?

 

Even on THAT list, I'd probably only want to swap places with the Chiefs, MAYBE the Ravens (based on coaching alone),  and possibly the Titans. That's it.  By my reckoning, the Bills' situation is better than TWELVE other AFC teams, which puts them in a really sweet spot at the moment. I know that spewing bile and raw emotion is all the rage these days and that logic and reason take a back seat more often than not. But if you look at the REALLY big picture, the Bills are in a pretty good place today with Beane and McDermott. Blowing all of it up would be a blunder of EPIC proportions.

 

Fair take, fair perspective. No way they blow it up. But THEY have to make the right decisions moving forward if we are going to be a championship team.

 

10-6 record and the playoffs, looking great going in at half time away. At times looking like a good team. This should not be ignored. 

 

We lose the game with a poor second half performance, we are seeing ineptitude and desperation at times in games. This should not be ignored either. 

 

Let's entertain that both is these things are happening. 

 

 

[WideRightRevenge]

4 hours ago, CNYfan said:

The Bills lost 4 of their last 5 games.

I am concerned that next year will not be as kind in the schedule,  lack of injuries and some luck that got us to ten wins.

Good chance of regression,  and last night did nothing to assuage my concerns. 

 

 

 

OK .. but look at the roster overhaul last year between 6 win team and 10 win team ...now Beane gets to go back into the roster laboratory and remake the 2020 edition ... all this talk about schedule ... throw out the Jets Loss at year end  ... we beat TN (a playoff winner in their crib) .. we were driving for a tie against the #1 AFC seed ... played NE tough twice .. and with limited talent on offense ... TRUST THE PROCESS

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, london_bills said:

Fair take, fair perspective. No way they blow it up. But THEY have to make the right decisions moving forward if we are going to be a championship team.

 

10-6 record and the playoffs, looking great going in at half time away. At times looking like a good team. This should not be ignored. 

 

We lose the game with a poor second half performance, we are seeing ineptitude and desperation at times in games. This should not be ignored either. 

 

Let's entertain that both is these things are happening. 

 

 

 

To be clear, I'm not HAPPY they lost yesterday. That sucked.

 

But I AM happy with the progress this team's made. This thread was a direct response to "heads should roll" posts from yesterday and earlier today. I can think of only one head that I'd remotely like to see roll: Daboll.