GunnerBill Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 23 minutes ago, John in Jax said: Great post, and I agree 100%. It seems pretty clear too. Sadly, too many people in here have on their red/blue blinders. LOL I don't think we were better than the other team. I think the Texans are more talented than us. No more nice stories. We need more top end talent. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olliemets Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Bar is going to be raised next year. I hope the honest self evaluation bears some fruit because the schedule is brutal. NFC West, and while Pats might be ready for a fall but Jets, Fish will probably be better. Bills will have to improve a lot just to make the playoffs. In retrospect, Losing all those games this season due to an ineffective offense cost us a home playoff game. Thats why last night really hurts. A real opportunity was squandered. No guarantees next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubs Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 The coaching staff is great. Amazes me how people forget the talent on this team, especially offense, is still very limited. Allen is still a work in progress. I think he gets there and he’s definitely improving, but there is a way to go still. The WRs are super limited. Better than last year but working with a 2, slot, and a bunch of depth isn’t a great position. the TEs are rookies. the Oline is nearly completely new, Morse is great but other than that the line is patchwork. RB is solid, but again a rookie. All of this combined with a great defense and I think the coaching staff is purposely protecting the offense as much as they can. As they add more pieces and Allen grows into his third year, I think you see a much different approach from the coaching staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevWarRifleman Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 BuffaloBoy, a very good post. This is why I get on the message board at times like this, for good, objective & rational posts like yours. Its easy to post a "fire this guy, cut that guy, we suck" and on and on. Your post offered an unbiased, rational, and very "good things to come" in the future. Thanks, man. Enjoy your off season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy1 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) Houston has 3 elite players at their positions - Hopkins, Watson and Watt. Those players made a difference in the game, Bills are young and growing, full of potential. Houston had a painful playoff loss last year. Bills got theirs yesterday. Hopefully they learn and grow from the experience. Allen is still learning at 23 yrs old. Kelley was 28 and in his third year before his first Bills playoff victory. In the long term, the future is still bright. Edited January 5, 2020 by Andy1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seoulofstone Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I don't think we were better than the other team. I think the Texans are more talented than us. No more nice stories. We need more top end talent. Are you talking about reputation or how they played yesterday? Because Watson and Hopkins weren't stars in the first half. Nuk had the one big play 2nd half and Watson finally came good after numerous opportunities. Neither of them 'took over the game'. To me 16-0 at halftime doesn't suggest they were the better team. They were clutch at all or nothing moments but their offense was more inconsistent than the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, MAJBobby said: I would rather my coaching staff not go into their turtle shell when up two scores. I would rather have my coaching staff to have a killer instinct. I would rather my coaching staff do what they preach and get better everyday. I don't understand how a coach can be so aggressive in some situations but so conservative in others? Bills went for it on 4th down a LOT this year when they could have either tried a FG or punted to play field position which I liked for the most part but then would go into shells when up by any real margin in the 2nd half. I don't get it. Be aggressive and try and score. It only gives you a bigger margin for error. Perhaps McD is thinking Allen still has a penchant for doing some crazy things and he doesn't want to tempt fate too many times when they have a lead and felt more secure with his defense holding the lead? Worked in a lot of games just not in the most important one. Hopefully he will adjust. Edited January 5, 2020 by matter2003 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 29 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: - they have to get better at Tight End. I like Dawson Knox. I think there is potential there. But he missed a critical block that would have won us the game yesterday he has had too many drops and he is as advertised - very raw. If we had an established vet QB I'd roll with Knox as my starter and continue to let him learn in the heat of battle but 2020 is the critical year for Allen. I need to give him a better starter and carve out Knox a specific role on the offense as a spot player. This is absolutely the time to go all-in and aggressively add top talent. To the bolded, are you talking about the QB power run to the right side? That play was a killer! We had 3 blockers to two defenders out on the edge, Allen should've had 15 yards but nobody blocked the defender...maddening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ga boy Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 I agree that we stack up well against AFC. Yesterday should be no surprise to anyone based on our skill level. Remember the only legit teams we beat this year were Steelers and Dallas and neither made the playoffs. We lost to Pats and they lost to weakest playoff team. The best predictor of future performance is past performance. Realistically, if we’d won, I’m afraid that next week would have been a bigger bummer. I think Josh and team will get better. They need to since the schedule is tougher. Go Bills!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuckyBoys Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 54 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I don't think we were better than the other team. I think the Texans are more talented than us. No more nice stories. We need more top end talent. Maybe at the very top but not the overall roster. To be fair those elite players came up with more plays when needed. O'Brien is a lousy coach and yesterday McDermott coached down to his level. Everybody keeps saying we need better players and Allen needs to get better. First off the coaching and personnel usage needs to greatly improve. Were not going to be a real super bowl contender till we have elite level coaching. I don't have any faith in McDermott adapting. Same guy that trotted Nathan Peterman out multiple times put his franchise qb out with special teams contributors instead of playmakers. At this point I question what he's basing his personnel decisions on. 30 minutes ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said: This is absolutely the time to go all-in and aggressively add top talent. To the bolded, are you talking about the QB power run to the right side? That play was a killer! We had 3 blockers to two defenders out on the edge, Allen should've had 15 yards but nobody blocked the defender...maddening. Morse whiffed on the edge contain Not Knox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCT Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 2 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said: Who'd you rather be a fan of today? The Bills or: The Patriots? The Jets? The Fish? And that's just in our division. I'd rather be in OUR position than any of theirs. OK, too small of a sample size for you? Well, how about we widen our search to the broader AFC as a whole: Ravens? Bengals? Browns? Steelers? Texans? Titans? Colts? Jaguars? Chargers? Raiders? Broncos? Chiefs? Even on THAT list, I'd probably only want to swap places with the Chiefs, MAYBE the Ravens (based on coaching alone), and possibly the Titans. That's it. By my reckoning, the Bills' situation is better than TWELVE other AFC teams, which puts them in a really sweet spot at the moment. I know that spewing bile and raw emotion is all the rage these days and that logic and reason take a back seat more often than not. But if you look at the REALLY big picture, the Bills are in a pretty good place today with Beane and McDermott. Blowing all of it up would be a blunder of EPIC proportions. You’re absolutely right. Most fans seem to view players like robots rather than human beings who need to learn their skills and abilities over time. Not only is the team young and with a 2nd year quarterback, the head coach is also just a 3rd year head coach and the GM is a 3rd year GM. Given the youth all-around, this team is ROCKING. In order to grow, they actually NEED failures like last night. When things are easy, you don’t get better. From that perspective, I’m totally content with last night’s loss, knowing this team will spring back next year and continue to work hard. I’m thinking more about a future DYNASTY. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 54 minutes ago, Seoulofstone said: Are you talking about reputation or how they played yesterday? Because Watson and Hopkins weren't stars in the first half. Nuk had the one big play 2nd half and Watson finally came good after numerous opportunities. Neither of them 'took over the game'. To me 16-0 at halftime doesn't suggest they were the better team. They were clutch at all or nothing moments but their offense was more inconsistent than the Bills. Watson did take over the game in the last Quarter and a half. He was not good first half but in the last Quarter and a half he rushed for a TD, rushed for the 2 pointer, threw a beauty to get them into scoring position again, threw a TD and a 2 pointer, and then escaped a certain two man sack to make the play that basically won them the game. The people wanting to downplay that do themselves a disservice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenboy81 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Hopefully this game burns them so they can learn and be better. Please get Allen some real weapons too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 45 minutes ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said: This is absolutely the time to go all-in and aggressively add top talent. To the bolded, are you talking about the QB power run to the right side? That play was a killer! We had 3 blockers to two defenders out on the edge, Allen should've had 15 yards but nobody blocked the defender...maddening. Yep. If the blockers execute their blocks then we are in FG range and Hausch has a shot to win the game. It was a perfect play call. And dreadful execution. 17 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said: Maybe at the very top but not the overall roster. To be fair those elite players came up with more plays when needed. O'Brien is a lousy coach and yesterday McDermott coached down to his level. Everybody keeps saying we need better players and Allen needs to get better. First off the coaching and personnel usage needs to greatly improve. Were not going to be a real super bowl contender till we have elite level coaching. I don't have any faith in McDermott adapting. Same guy that trotted Nathan Peterman out multiple times put his franchise qb out with special teams contributors instead of playmakers. At this point I question what he's basing his personnel decisions on. Morse whiffed on the edge contain Not Knox On the block both Morse and Knox missed their guys. On the rest... while I see where you are coming from I go the other way. I see some issues with the coaching for sure but I think the biggest problems remain execution and that is on the talent. I will worry about the coaching once I think the talent is there to get more out of. At the moment I really do not think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuckyBoys Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Yep. If the blockers execute their blocks then we are in FG range and Hausch has a shot to win the game. It was a perfect play call. And dreadful execution. On the block both Morse and Knox missed their guys. On the rest... while I see where you are coming from I go the other way. I see some issues with the coaching for sure but I think the biggest problems remain execution and that is on the talent. I will worry about the coaching once I think the talent is there to get more out of. At the moment I really do not think it is. Yeah they need to execute everything perfect The margin of error with how this team plays is minimal. Some of that falls on McDermott We didn't play aggressive when we needed to. Talent wise I maintain we didn't use what we had. No excuse for DiMarco to be getting all those snaps in OT No excuse to run Gore from heavy run formation looks on 2nd and 10 repeatedly for no gain. Really no excuse for Gore to have touched the ball unless Singeltary was winded 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 The Bills and Pats are ships passing in the night going drastically different directions. Im excited about the future, and upset about that loss. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 5, 2020 Author Share Posted January 5, 2020 7 minutes ago, whatdrought said: The Bills and Pats are ships passing in the night going drastically different directions. Im excited about the future, and upset about that loss. Reasonable. 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: I don't think things are horrible, but you want a reasonable plan? Okay... here is mine: - it starts where it always starts - with the Quarterback. Josh Allen took a step this year and there were times, including the first half yesterday, when he looked like a bona fide franchise Quarterback. But if the Josh Allen we saw this year is who Josh Allen is it isn't good enough. They need him to take another step next year. They need 2019 Josh Allen which was passable NFL starter level to be improved upon in 2020. - to help that evaluation in Josh's critical 3rd year you have to remove the excuses. That starts with continuing to improve at receiver. The Bills have two decent starters and in McKenzie a decent role player with a valuable skill set. They need as a minimum one true difference maker. - they have to improve at Right Tackle. If they stubbornly insist that Ford will grow into that role then they will sink our offensive line. He has to move inside and become a reclamation project at guard which was always where most of us felt he best fit. They then have to find a RT who is an upgrade on Ty and Cody immediately. Not a guy who might be in 3 years. A guy who is. And is from day 1 of OTAs. - they have to get better at Tight End. I like Dawson Knox. I think there is potential there. But he missed a critical block that would have won us the game yesterday he has had too many drops and he is as advertised - very raw. If we had an established vet QB I'd roll with Knox as my starter and continue to let him learn in the heat of battle but 2020 is the critical year for Allen. I need to give him a better starter and carve out Knox a specific role on the offense as a spot player. - to do all of this and get impact players at those w critical spots they need to be willing to overpay in Free Agency if that is what it takes. You have to know before the 5th year option decision at the end of next season whether your QB is a guy you are minded to commit the big $$s to. If that costs you some money now then so be it. - the defense has been really consistent and is very good. But it can still get better. They need an edge rusher who makes immediate impact too. Get the dollars out. This might cost. - they need to get over the nice story with Levi Wallace and they need to either bring back Kevin Johnson and let him genuinely compete to start or bring in other competition. - they need to get tough with Daboll. They need to tell him he is coaching for his job in 2020 and it is about establishing an identity first and foremost. - they need to make hard nosed business decisions on guys they brought onto the roster. Trent Murphy, Star, Kroft and Di Marco are all underperforming their contracts. They need to go. No sentimental extensions for Frank Gore. Proper competition for Matt Barkley and Steve Hauschka. I remain supportive of McDermott, relatively positive on Beane and hopeful on Allen. But they need to be properly self critical this offseason. They are not "one more push" away. They are still 3 or 4 big moves from where they need to be and that is IF Josh is eventually the guy. But they need to stop hedging their bets. You picked Josh. You say you believe in him. Okay it is time for chips in the table. Your whole regime now lives or dies with the career of Josh Allen and that is unavoidable. There is no other approach now. It has to be all in. I really don't find fault with any of this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 2 hours ago, CNYfan said: The Bills lost 4 of their last 5 games. I am concerned that next year will not be as kind in the schedule, lack of injuries and some luck that got us to ten wins. Good chance of regression, and last night did nothing to assuage my concerns. Let's not forget we have the offseason around the corner , we have plenty of money ( free agency) and bunch of draft picks as well , Im actually pretty positive about next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: I don't think things are horrible, but you want a reasonable plan? Okay... here is mine: - it starts where it always starts - with the Quarterback. Josh Allen took a step this year and there were times, including the first half yesterday, when he looked like a bona fide franchise Quarterback. But if the Josh Allen we saw this year is who Josh Allen is it isn't good enough. They need him to take another step next year. They need 2019 Josh Allen which was passable NFL starter level to be improved upon in 2020. - to help that evaluation in Josh's critical 3rd year you have to remove the excuses. That starts with continuing to improve at receiver. The Bills have two decent starters and in McKenzie a decent role player with a valuable skill set. They need as a minimum one true difference maker. - they have to improve at Right Tackle. If they stubbornly insist that Ford will grow into that role then they will sink our offensive line. He has to move inside and become a reclamation project at guard which was always where most of us felt he best fit. They then have to find a RT who is an upgrade on Ty and Cody immediately. Not a guy who might be in 3 years. A guy who is. And is from day 1 of OTAs. - they have to get better at Tight End. I like Dawson Knox. I think there is potential there. But he missed a critical block that would have won us the game yesterday he has had too many drops and he is as advertised - very raw. If we had an established vet QB I'd roll with Knox as my starter and continue to let him learn in the heat of battle but 2020 is the critical year for Allen. I need to give him a better starter and carve out Knox a specific role on the offense as a spot player. - to do all of this and get impact players at those w critical spots they need to be willing to overpay in Free Agency if that is what it takes. You have to know before the 5th year option decision at the end of next season whether your QB is a guy you are minded to commit the big $$s to. If that costs you some money now then so be it. - the defense has been really consistent and is very good. But it can still get better. They need an edge rusher who makes immediate impact too. Get the dollars out. This might cost. - they need to get over the nice story with Levi Wallace and they need to either bring back Kevin Johnson and let him genuinely compete to start or bring in other competition. - they need to get tough with Daboll. They need to tell him he is coaching for his job in 2020 and it is about establishing an identity first and foremost. - they need to make hard nosed business decisions on guys they brought onto the roster. Trent Murphy, Star, Kroft and Di Marco are all underperforming their contracts. They need to go. No sentimental extensions for Frank Gore. Proper competition for Matt Barkley and Steve Hauschka. I remain supportive of McDermott, relatively positive on Beane and hopeful on Allen. But they need to be properly self critical this offseason. They are not "one more push" away. They are still 3 or 4 big moves from where they need to be and that is IF Josh is eventually the guy. But they need to stop hedging their bets. You picked Josh. You say you believe in him. Okay it is time for chips in the table. Your whole regime now lives or dies with the career of Josh Allen and that is unavoidable. There is no other approach now. It has to be all in. I’m Whatdrought, and I support this message. Seriously, send this to Beane in an email. My only thoughts: - I think Levi is a nice player and better than Johnson. That being said, I agree they need to look at bringing in competition. - I’d be fine keeping star and Murphy on reduced pay as rotational pieces. - love the part about being all in on josh Allen. This is really it. It doesn’t matter what us fans think about him becoming a franchise QB. What matters is the staff says he is. Now get the job done to help him become that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 2 hours ago, oldmanfan said: The future is bright. A painful loss though, hard to get over. Well, FA future is certainly bright... Draft future is certainly bright... FO future is certainly bright... But McD still does not have basic understanding of in game management- which is very troubling...I called it two weeks ago...his awful in game management was gonna come back to bite us in the ass...only reason we got away with it before was because we had a crap schedule... And after two seasons, I’m still not sold on Josh Allen as a franchise QB...to me he is only a “franchise” QB in name only because he was drafted in the top 10 and because we have no one else...but it’s not like he has earned the franchise QB status by his play imo...to me, a franchise QB is someone you are confident will play better than Allen did all season long...sure, he shows some nice things from time to time, but against the easiest schedule in the league he still managed to put up some of the most pedestrian numbers...on top of that, his decision making still remains well below that of a franchise QB and borderline “WTF”...fingers crossed on that front... So, sure, some things may seem bright, but there are still some things that remain very murky...they could work out, but at this point it’s not very clear or “bright” that they will. This is just my opinion, of course, as I’m sure some will have disagreements. PS...Joe, you are on my ignore list, so if you choose to respond, fortunately for me, I will not be able to see it. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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