Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 5 hours ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said: Wins S. Darnold (Established/Entrenched Starter) E. Manning (Benched/Back-Up) Andy Dalton (Benched/Back-Up) M.Mariota (Benched/Back-Up) R. Fitz (Back Up) D. Haskins (Rookie/Back-Up) R. Fitz (Back-Up) B. Allen (Back-Up) D. Prescott (Established/Entrenched Starter) D. Hodges (Back-Up) Loses T. Brady (Established/Entrenched Starter) C. Wentz (Established/Entrenched Starter) B. Mayfield (Established/Entrenched Starter) L. Jackson (Established/Entrenched Starter) T. Brady (Established/Entrenched Starter) D. Watson (Established/Entrenched Starter) 8-0 against the backups or benched 2-6 against the established starters 1 single victory against a team with a winning record. And that was with their now benched and soon to be released QB. Is it possible buffalos meagerness and our football teams ineptness for 20 plus years have made us such love able losers that folks just pull the blinds over their eyes to avoid that this team are Frankly, I could never really understand the hoopla over beating Dallas or Pittsburgh. I just see a team that really has a long way to go when it comes to WINNING (not losing in the final minutes, let’s be clear what really matters) but WINNING against the Real QBs in this league. And Coach McDermotts Offense averaging 19.87 for the season (won’t count JETS Finale) just isn’t my cup of tea. Nor is his Career Offense Average points per game at roughly 18.5 anything to sing songs about. We can beat the dregs of the league...now take the next step PLEASE! ? It's impossible to reason with the unreasonable. I give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said: 2019 Buffalo Bills: Were they Paper Tigers? No. That's the basic answer. No. As for your breakdown of wins and losses, the Dallas and Pittsburgh wins were good ones and they played right with the Pats and the Ravens. Were they good enough to break through against the absolute best in the league? No. But I don't think too many people thought they should have been listed among the top five or six. If you did think that, it's on your judgment of what they were, not on whether the Bills the Bills were over-estimated. Edited January 5, 2020 by Thurman#1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codyny13 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 These topics are atrocious. Take a break from the board when you’re about jump off your roof. This hurts we get it. We played 17 games this year, 16 of which came as a win or loss by 1 score, we lost an away game in the playoffs in overtime because the young talent on our team made too many mistakes. We will get better, we will be better. Be pissed off, be angry and upset, take some time away, then look forward to free agency and the draft. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 5 hours ago, RiotAct said: everyone! ERRYONE!!! You put me in mind of Dianne Chambers at that memorable Thanksgiving Dinner on ‘Cheers’. As for the 2019 Bills, overachievers collectively when you consider what Vegas had predicted. Cleveland was a paper tiger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyBeets Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 This thread would make more sense had you not used "paper tigers" They clearly overachieved. Some media outlets thought we were a 4-12 team. Most thought it was a stretch if we won 7 games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah John Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 The Bills played better than most of the teams they played, and they won 10 out of 15 (the last Jets game doesn't count). Going into the season we heard what sounded like the same happy talk as every year -- we've got good players to fill in the holes from last year, we have some playmakers, yada yada yada. We perpetually optimistic but toughened up fans took all that as blather. But it turned out to be right. Most of the gaps were filled by good players, and the draft worked out great. I think Ford underdelivered, Oliver eventually came on, and Knox and Singletary in the third round were steals. FAs worked out. The difference was the closeness and cohesion and focus of the team. For the whiners complaining about McDermott, go suck something. The culture this team now has is ALL about him. Are the Bills the best team in the league? The honest answer is, no NOT YET. They're in the fortunate position of having Kyle Williams and Lorax around to train up the younger guys so they'll be ready to be leaders -- and to have them retire after the year in which their skills started going down just a little, which is always the best time. If Beane keeps hitting on draft picks and good FAs, the Bills will be talented, deep, tight, and skilled. They'll have a good 3 year window to challenge for the Super Bowl, before all those contracts come due and they have to fight to retain all the good players who want to cash in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 We were a WC team, and we hung with a team at the same level through overtime, at their house. Barely lost a 50/50 game. That’s about what I thought we were. Sure, I dreamed of going further - which we could have, because we can hang with anyone. But that’s a big part of who we were this year- when your ceiling is just being able to hang, you need the breaks to go your way in every game to come out with a win. Likely not going to happen in 4 consecutive games. We need to become a team that can do more than hang. We need to dominate, at least a little, and put games away earlier. But we weren’t pretenders. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 This was a very solid team this year. Competitive against everyone, including the playoff teams. But it was also roughly an 8-8 team that got to 10-6 thanks to an incredibly weak schedule. Nothing to be ashamed of there, but it is important to understand this going forward, and I'm quite sure Beane and McD do understand. The 12-4 Bears last year are about as good a comparison as you'll find, and they found their true level (8-8) as they put basically the same team on the field in 2019 but faced significantly better competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locomark Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 On paper their offense was not great!!! Let’s compare the Super Bowl offenses minus the QB..... 90s: Andre Reed, James Lofton, Don Beebe, Keith McKellar, Thurman Thomas, Kenny Davis Vs. 2019 John Brown, Beasley, McKenzie/Williams , Knox, Singletary, Gore if you put today’s roster in 1990 Brown might by the WR3, Singletary would be RB2 and Knox might be the TE. Likely the rest of the guys wouldn’t make the team and none of them would start. So how many points would Josh put up with that lineup? I would bet 25-27 and we would have had a bye this week. So did our 10 wins overinflate how good we are because some teams suck? No. But do we have the offensive talent yet to win a championship. Not close yet, but I will guess we will get major upgrades at WR and RB2 in 2020 and if Knox and Singletary and Josh grow normally we might have another TD each game next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah John Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 WR definitely. RB probably because I think Gore isn't coming back. QB2, yes, Barkley is a help for Allen but he can't play well enough to keep us winning consistently. Another O lineman to keep adding skill and depth to a good group. On D we need an edge rusher, 2 LBs and another starting CB. Wallace and Johnson are good but not very good, and we could lose Poyer and/or Hyde if they keep playing so well, unless we pay them (which they deserve). We're almost done building, at which point we're maintaining. It will be great. Next year's schedule will be challenging, playing the AFCW and NFCW with all that travel. But, the other AFCE teams will be doing that too so the AFCE championship is within reach. With that travel, probably won't get a first round bye, but we get a home playoff game. 2021, we win it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in Jax Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 The easy schedule definitely had a big impact on their success this year (making the playoffs). Like some other posters have noted, next year will be a good tell as to whether this year was a "fluke." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 On 1/5/2020 at 1:23 AM, Nextmanup said: Why argue semantics? The OP is asking, basically, if we were as good as our record said we were this year. Arguably, we were not. That’s fair. My concern is that the Bills only beat one team with a winning record this season - the Titians. Notably the Titans were still starting Marcus Mariota at the time. He went 2-4 in games started and then was benched for Tannehill. So were we 10-6 good? We were probably at that level or at least close to it. The Bills were a little above average, but definitely not well above. That fits with 10 wins and a competitive first round playoff exit. We’re going to have a tougher schedule next season so we’re going to need to improve just to stay at that record. It’s very possible with our resources to even do better than that. A lot will come down to Allen’s development though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Claude Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 (edited) They were basically a low level but legitimate playoff team -- not like two years ago when they were probably one of the worse teams ever to make the playoffs. I hope the board learns some lessons from this year. (1) Just because someone in the national media says something critical about the Bills -- it doesn't mean that there is some kind of agenda against Buffalo. Lots of times they are making a perfectly reasonable opinion. Its more likely that you are biased coming in as a fan than the other way around. (2) A win is a win and it doesn't effect your record whether you squeak by a bad team or destroy a good team but it certainly should play a role in judging how good a team is and predictions for the next game. (3) It is not always the OL, WR, OC, HC, or GM's fault. Sometimes it really is Josh Allen's fault. Neither is it always Josh Allen's fault. (4) Josh Allen is showing promise but if almost all the numbers says he is a slightly below average quarterback, right now, that is probably what he is. It doesn't mean he can't improve but plenty of QBs have plateaued at this level. Next year we will know. (5) There is no such thing as field goal an PAT defense unless its a block. Sometimes luck is luck. (6) It is hardly surprising a young team with almost no playoff experience messes up in a critical situation. They have a huge amount of cap space, a very young team, a GM and coach who appears to have a plan. I am hopeful for next year. Edited January 6, 2020 by Billy Claude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 On 1/5/2020 at 1:04 AM, RalphWilson'sNewWar said: Wins S. Darnold (Established/Entrenched Starter) First Year Head Coach E. Manning (Benched/Back-Up) Coach Fired Andy Dalton (Benched/Back-Up) First Year Head Coach M.Mariota (Benched/Back-Up) Good Coach R. Fitz (Back Up) First Year Head Coach D. Haskins (Rookie/Back-Up) Coach Fired R. Fitz (Back-Up) First Year Head Coach B. Allen (Back-Up) First Year Head Coach D. Prescott (Established/Entrenched Starter) Coach Fired D. Hodges (Back-Up) Good coach Loses T. Brady (Established/Entrenched Starter) Good Coach C. Wentz (Established/Entrenched Starter) Good Coach B. Mayfield (Established/Entrenched Starter) First Year HC/Coach Fired L. Jackson (Established/Entrenched Starter) Good Coach T. Brady (Established/Entrenched Starter) Good Coach D. Watson (Established/Entrenched Starter) Good Coach Viewing the results against coaches shows that the Bills played 9 Games against teams with either first year HC's or coaches bad enough to be fired. The Bills went 8-1 against these coaches. In the seven games against good coaches, the Bills went 2-5. One of those wins was the Steelers, who started their third string QB. Next Season, the Bills face this coaching lineup. Chiefs - Reid - Good Coach Chargers - Lynn - meh coach Rams - McVay - Good coach Seahawks - Carroll 0 Good coach Steelers - Tomlin - Good Coach Dolphins - Flores - second year coach, appears to be a good coach Patriots - Good coach Jets - bad coach Cardinals - meh coach Broncos - meh coach Raiders - Good coach ( i know many disagree on this) Niners - Good coach Titans - Good coach Dolphins - second year coach, appears to be a Good coach Patriots Good coach Jets - Bad coach It does not seem likely the Bills will face any coaches who are first year coaches next year. Nor is it likely they will be facing any coaches who will be fired at the end of the year (possible Gase or Lynn) To go 11-5 next year (likely needed to win the division). They will have to win their games against all the less than good coaches, which is only 5 wins, and win 6 games against the other teams. That is a big step up from the 1 quality win against a good coach with a real starting QB this year. If the Bills do this I offer McDermott a five year extension. If they perform against good coaches next year as they did this year, the team is looking at something like a 6-10 or 7-9 record. If that happens, not sure where I would stand with this coaching staff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 On 1/5/2020 at 12:23 AM, Nextmanup said: Why argue semantics? The OP is asking, basically, if we were as good as our record said we were this year. Arguably, we were not. I think we were exactly as good as our record says we were this year. If the other team's D was at a level to allow us to score points, or their offense was at a level that we could shut them down, we won. We don't have the offense to score points consistently against a top D (or a D playing above their regular season game, which was Texas on Saturday). We have flaws in our D and/or approach that the best teams manage to exploit to keep our O off the field and at least score points. If we make changes to this, we may still be a winning team next year. If we don't, we won't. The term Paper Tiger refers to something or someone that claims or appears to be powerful and/or threatening, but is actually ineffectual and unable to withstand challenge. The Bills are not "Paper Tigers" because in the playoffs, they were exactly what they had shown themselves to be during the season: a "shut down" D that can limit or stay with anyone, including the NFL MVP with a blazing hot offense (Ravens) and the #6 offense in the league for points (Cowboys). An offense that can score >20 points against a poor defense, but is not proficient or talented enough to score >17 points against a great defense or a good defense having a great day. A coaching team that is slow to make adjustments or that makes poor adjustments, and that allows the offense to go into a shell and the D to soften up when they think they've got the game. New England was a "Paper Tiger". Pundits were talking them up as an all-time-great defense and an offensive juggernaut, based upon early season results. It turns out they could pitch shut outs to teams in offensive disarray, but when faced with good offenses they folded like a cheap lawn chair, and their offense likewise was only good enough to steamroll the bad schedule. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 I say yes, to a point. They had a lot of games against weak or compromised opponents. True. They won almost all those games though. That is not easy to do, no matter who the opponents are. The Jets, Miami, Denver, Washington, Giants, etc all proved to be pretty dangerous at times. Pittsburgh was on a roll and on the road for a Sunday night game. Dallas on Thanksgiving wasnt a garbage win. Tennessee on the road, good win. They also were in every game until the very end, with the exception of the Philly game that got away. When push came to shove though, when they played the upper class in NE, Baltimore, Houston in the playoffs, they couldnt get it done. I would argue that this was not the season the Bills were 'supposed to' be a contender in the top class of the NFL. This was supposed to be a nice step forward into next year when the real window to compete is opened up. On a neutral field, are there any non-playoff teams who would be favored over the Bills? I dont think so. That's something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: The Bills are not "Paper Tigers" because in the playoffs, they were exactly what they had shown themselves to be during the season: a "shut down" D that can limit or stay with anyone, including the NFL MVP with a blazing hot offense (Ravens) and the #6 offense in the league for points (Cowboys). Sadly, the bold part was not true yesterday when it mattered. 19 points given up in 20 minutes (including drives of 75 and 69 yards) is the definition of "not a shut down D" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy10 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 I think they were paper tigers living in a glass house of cards waiting for the other shoe to drop. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 1 minute ago, May Day 10 said: I say yes, to a point. They had a lot of games against weak or compromised opponents. True. They won almost all those games though. That is not easy to do, no matter who the opponents are. The Jets, Miami, Denver, Washington, Giants, etc all proved to be pretty dangerous at times. Pittsburgh was on a roll and on the road for a Sunday night game. Dallas on Thanksgiving wasnt a garbage win. Tennessee on the road, good win. They also were in every game until the very end, with the exception of the Philly game that got away. When push came to shove though, when they played the upper class in NE, Baltimore, Houston in the playoffs, they couldnt get it done. I would argue that this was not the season the Bills were 'supposed to' be a contender in the top class of the NFL. This was supposed to be a nice step forward into next year when the real window to compete is opened up. On a neutral field, are there any non-playoff teams who would be favored over the Bills? I dont think so. That's something. AFC East played the NFC East this year. Neither conference has a team in the final eight teams. The results for all the teams in those two conferences are skewed by having so many games against bad teams. Bills and Pats were the best of these teams. Which is something. Kind of like winning the cotton bowl, while the top teams are playing the FBS playoff games. Its better than nothing, but still on the outside looking in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpberr Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Hardly. The current Bills (Beane/McDermott) have been to the playoffs 2 out of the 3 years they've been in control of the football product. I see progress in going from no playoffs to being able to rest starters in Week 17 of a season for the first time in decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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