Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 I thought it might be interesting to take a look at the invisible third of the team (until it's not, usually in a Bad Way): Special Teams Here is the Bills 2nd kickoff in the Pats game. The ball is just fielded, at the 5 yd line. Foster is L5 (top of the picture on about the 40), one of the Gunners. Bolden, who has fielded the ball at the 5, is a top-10 returner this year. The returner, about the 15 yd line near the numbers, looks at the gnarly mess in front of him and decides he'd like to see if he can cross and take the ball up the opposite sideline. That's Foster in between the hashes, putting on the brakes and keeping clean of blockers. Bolden comes uncomfortably close to breaking one. Bills jockstraps can be seen all over the field. Corey Thompson gets off his block late and is beat. #38 (Bolden) can smell "Big Yards return, with a chance for Endzone". Kevin Johnson, at the 28 and Poyer, on the 0 at the 30, are gonna try to mess up his chance and calculating their angles. Foster has one foot on the 25 yd line......wait! That dawg FAST. He runs Bolden down from behind, wraps him up and "Say Goodnight, Gracie!" Even if Foster didn't complete, he hangs on long enough to give Poyer and Johnson a great chance to get in position But Foster comes through. Good tackling. Bolden down at the 24 yd line. Spot at the 25 ? End scene with Bolden seated on the ground going Damn! and the Bills with at least no worse field position than if it were a touchback. We can say all sorts of other things about this kickoff and the coverage. But It Is what It Is right now. I hope this helps illustrate how Foster is contributing on ST, why the coaches as a whole think it benefits the team to have Foster out there on ST, and why that viewpoint isn't "stubborn" or "stupid" or some of the other stuff that's been said. 8 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Routine play for any gunner. Just put a back-up safety or DB out there if Foster is not going to contribute much on offense. With the Wallace injury they probably need an extra DB active for the game anyways. Not saying special teams are not important but they are not a 1/3rd of the game. Not even close when it comes to play count. I like Roberts returning the ball and handling punts. He has been solid and worth the investment. Just avoid blocking penalties that kill field position. . 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 2, 2020 Author Share Posted January 2, 2020 16 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said: Routine play for any gunner. Just put a back-up safety or DB out there if Foster is not going to contribute much on offense. With the Wallace injury they probably need an extra DB active for the game anyways. Not saying special teams are not important but they are not a 1/3rd of the game. Not even close when it comes to play count. I like Roberts returning the ball and handling punts. He has been solid and worth the investment. Just avoid blocking penalties that kill field position. Listen to yourself. "Routine play for any gunner" Correct. Foster is the gunner. That's the point. Foster is the gunner because he cemented his role as the best choice for the position. Who is the alternative? Hint: if "just a back up safety or DB" were a better gunner than Foster, they'd have replaced him as gunner. 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Listen to yourself. "Routine play for any gunner" Correct. Foster is the gunner. That's the point. Foster is the gunner because he cemented his role as the best choice for the position. Who is the alternative? Hint: if "just a back up safety or DB" were a better gunner than Foster, they'd have replaced him as gunner. Except he's not "the" gunner. Bills have alternated Foster, Coleman, Johnson, Perry & Neal on punt returns. There's absolutely no drop off in coverage when Foster is not the gunner. There were a few punts in the Pitt game where Foster didn't know where the ball was. PS, on the play you referenced, Foster needed to use his speed because he abandoned his lane thinking that Bolden would stay to the left. When Bolden saw Foster cheating, he cut it back to the right. You are correct that Foster's speed stopped a huge play. But if Foster stays with his assignment, there's no need for the heroics. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 27 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said: Routine play for any gunner. Just put a back-up safety or DB out there if Foster is not going to contribute much on offense. With the Wallace injury they probably need an extra DB active for the game anyways. Not saying special teams are not important but they are not a 1/3rd of the game. Not even close when it comes to play count. I like Roberts returning the ball and handling punts. He has been solid and worth the investment. Just avoid blocking penalties that kill field position. . Agree with every word. People on our board value ST way too high. Considering new rules and safety concerns, special teams have become basically worthless. Maybe 20% importance. Factor in the league refusing all 53 players eligible to be active and things really get stupid. Let Foster play all the ST he wants. Just don't waste targets on him over Duke or TJ? Besides we have one of the weaker ST coverage units in the league. And one of the more penalized units too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rew Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Given our extensive depth at DB, I think we should play a few of them on every ST coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, Rew said: Given our extensive depth at DB, I think we should play a few of them on every ST coverage. The Bills have rotated a lot of players on ST, which makes the excuse that Foster is vital for playing very dubious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 2, 2020 Author Share Posted January 2, 2020 5 minutes ago, Rew said: Given our extensive depth at DB, I think we should play a few of them on every ST coverage. That's sarcasm, right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reks Ryan Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Special teams always tilts 1 or 2 NFL playoff games each year. And not just made or missed FGs. On paper the Bills and Texans O's vs D's are pretty even match ups. So ST could be the difference. Yesterday, Someone posted the full game of a previous Buffalo vs Houston playoff game from New Years Day 1989. The Bills won that game on special teams. A blocked punt set-up their first TD, also had a blocked FG and the Oilers missed another FG influenced by pressure. The Bills also had outstanding kick coverage, plus they had a couple nice punt returns. 17 - 10 Bills victory. And we all know they have lost at least 1 playoff game on a last second Special Teams screw up. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 2, 2020 Author Share Posted January 2, 2020 16 minutes ago, GG said: Except he's not "the" gunner. Bills have alternated Foster, Coleman, Johnson, Perry & Neal on punt returns. There's absolutely no drop off in coverage when Foster is not the gunner. There were a few punts in the Pitt game where Foster didn't know where the ball was. PS, on the play you referenced, Foster needed to use his speed because he abandoned his lane thinking that Bolden would stay to the left. When Bolden saw Foster cheating, he cut it back to the right. You are correct that Foster's speed stopped a huge play. But if Foster stays with his assignment, there's no need for the heroics. OH, now if we're going to get into critiquing the whole play.....I did mention there were Bills jocks all over the field, did I not? We can start way before Foster. Should never have come to him. I am not a fan of our special teams coaching this year. But I'm also not a fan of seeing big plays given up. If Farwell is saying "Foster and Roberts are the best guys, gotta have 'em", he's managed to keep ST from being an albatross since we gave up a TD return at Miami - don't screw with it now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Except Foster is only on 37% of the snap counts on Special Teams so..... https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2019-snap-counts.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: OH, now if we're going to get into critiquing the whole play.....I did mention there were Bills jocks all over the field, did I not? We can start way before Foster. Should never have come to him. I am not a fan of our special teams coaching this year. But I'm also not a fan of seeing big plays given up. If Farwell is saying "Foster and Roberts are the best guys, gotta have 'em", he's managed to keep ST from being an albatross since we gave up a TD return at Miami - don't screw with it now. Agreed on the awful state of ST this year, and Farwell largely learning on the job. But it makes no sense for him to go to the mat for Foster. Roberts is a must keep on returns, Foster is a rotational non-factor. (Grant's TD was because Foster was totally blocked out of the lane). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 3, 2020 Author Share Posted January 3, 2020 28 minutes ago, fansince88 said: Except Foster is only on 37% of the snap counts on Special Teams so..... https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2019-snap-counts.htm Let's see, if he plays gunner when we kickoff, that would be what % of our ST plays? Hint: Roberts, who receives both punts and kickoffs, has 29% of the ST snap counts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 If ever there was a time for Roberts or McKenzie to break one for a touchdown......this would be it 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 I appreciate what you are trying to do here. I also know special teams is important to the game. However, where I disagree is.... This is one play. If someone else was in Fosters spot does a tackle not get made? We don't know. If Duke was in the game does the offense get better production? We don't know. He caught the ball at the 5. Could the punter just kick it out of bounds in the vicinity? Then it wouldn't really matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 3, 2020 Author Share Posted January 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Scott7975 said: I appreciate what you are trying to do here. I also know special teams is important to the game. However, where I disagree is.... This is one play. If someone else was in Fosters spot does a tackle not get made? We don't know. If Duke was in the game does the offense get better production? We don't know. He caught the ball at the 5. Could the punter just kick it out of bounds in the vicinity? Then it wouldn't really matter. There's a lot of what-if. First, this was a kickoff, not a punt. Why is Haushka not kicking deep into the endzone where it's not returnable, and the coverage team has time to get downfield if they try? I don't know. The fact is, he isn't on many of his kickoffs this year. You can ask that question about any of our starters - if he is out and someone else is in, does the tackle not get made? but the bottom line is, the coaches, who see them in practice all week, feel Foster is the best guy for the job. Then we get into, couldn't someone else sit down and let Williams play? I don't know. It does come down in part to, if we have injuries who could fill that spot? We don't want to see Isaiah McKensie playing CB or the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 31 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Whatever.....I just hope next year two of the 5 WRs we have active aren't completely useless offensively.... I don't want McKenzie returning punts. Guy can't hold onto the football in that vicinity. Your #1-3 wrs should never be on ST. The problem is we haven't had a #3 wr all year. There are plenty of backup lbs/dbs + Dimarco to fill a unit. Other than that one return for 66 yards, Andre Roberts has had an underwhelming season. Draft Shenault and let him be your return man while he moves up the wr ladder. Fosters future as a wr for the Bills is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 STs in the rented mule of all NFL teams, in which they fall behind both offense and defense in priority as it should be, it is especially important that it be so when a given teams offense struggles to score TDs. Resources need then to be given to said offense. Only when the two most important phases of the game, O & D are performing optimally should a given team put additional resources into STs.. it is not that STs holds no importance, but rather the other two phases are far more important... Go Bills!!! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Listen to yourself. "Routine play for any gunner" Correct. Foster is the gunner. That's the point. Foster is the gunner because he cemented his role as the best choice for the position. Who is the alternative? Hint: if "just a back up safety or DB" were a better gunner than Foster, they'd have replaced him as gunner. So you are saying the coaches who see the players everyday know more than some guys on a message board? Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Listen to yourself. "Routine play for any gunner" Correct. Foster is the gunner. That's the point. Foster is the gunner because he cemented his role as the best choice for the position. Who is the alternative? Hint: if "just a back up safety or DB" were a better gunner than Foster, they'd have replaced him as gunner. It’s apparent they don’t see value in Duke Williams as a WR. Therefore if you are going to make Foster and McKenzie active even for a few snaps at WR then it makes sense to get some special teams play out of them. None of us know why Foster has done next to little this year at WR and none of us know the reason why Williams isn’t active. We do know McD makes curious personnel decisions that don’t pass the eyeball test - Peterman. Maybe Duke is dumb and doesn’t know the plays. He cost the team a timeout nit knowing where to line up last week and the offense only ran about 10 plays repeatedly. Maybe Duke drops everything in practice. Maybe Duke can’t separate from anyome in practice. All we see is a guy that has made plays in the two games he has been up and virtually nothing from Foster. I’m quite confident all that could change with one play especially in a dome. So again, I don’t care about his special teams play. I think any DB, S, or WR can play the position. They are elite athletes in the NFL. It can’t possibly be that hard. I care about the right weapons on offense. BTW Foster has shown to be a willing blocker so that is a plus for him. 5 minutes ago, Just Joshin' said: So you are saying the coaches who see the players everyday know more than some guys on a message board? Interesting. Peterman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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