Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 7 hours ago, GunnerBill said: If you defend 7 by keeping 7 in you have lost already. Completely the wrong approach. I couldn't disagree with you more philosophically about how they need to run this offense. Not necessarily. The context here is discussion of Brett Kollman (The Film Room) Youtube Video "Kids See Ghosts" on the Patriots zero-blitzing Sam Darnold and (last year) Pat Mahomes. He points out that there are several ways to beat it. The simplest, illustrated by a Packers play, is to max protect and throw a deep post route. You aren't "lost already" because you're not looking for options; you know where you're going. You just need time to get there. It's about 5 minutes in. Again, we're not talking about "max protect all the time"; we're talking about a specific technique to beat the type of Zero blitz the Patriots run (and, if I'm not mistaken, the Ravens also exploited). And you have to max protect to make it work. He contrasts with a KC play where they didn't max protect and it didn't work. He also goes into other ways to beat zero blitz not involving deep routes (for example, you don't have a sure-handed WR who can beat that 1:1 coverage). Give it a watch if you haven't, it's good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Do people even take Rex Ryan seriously? We all know how hard it is to find a good HC but what HC is going to go to Cleveland and work with so much Cray Cray. It would be career suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 13 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: Obviously the big difference is that Daboll has NEVER been good. I want the team to get talent around him.............Walt Corey had a #1 defense in 1988 with talent around him...........talent makes all but the very worst coaches look good...... but I've learned my lesson about making excuses for coaches who don't create synergy with their decision making. We literally just saw Anthony Lynn take Greg Roman's playbook 3 years ago and do it considerably better than Roman had been doing. Some coaches are just a lot better at calling games. Lynn understood how to use Roman's plays in a manner that kept defense's on their heels. Lynn ran it like a boxer actively setting up an attack while Roman was a puncher stepping in with a punch and then falling back and letting his opponent recover while he plotted his next punch. Roman was literally getting the play call in with 12 seconds on the clock and putting his own offense on their heels. I'm of the belief that the right play caller could do a better job than Daboll with Daboll's playbook. Now that isn't to say that he isn't doing a great job from Monday-Saturday but game days have just always been unkind to Daboll. Relative to this conversation, I thought you’d find this piece of info from Albert Breer interesting: ”Dolphins offensive coordinator Chad O’Shea was let go, and I’m told that part of it was Brian Flores’s desire to move away from his Patriot roots on that side of the ball. Why does that make sense? My theory is that since Miami’s going to be really young the next couple years, running a scheme with the complexity of New England’s might be tough on the players developmentally. Which is why it wouldn’t surprise me if we see some more college ideas infused into what Miami is doing.” https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/12/31/nfl-black-monday-coaching-rumors-mock-draft 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRT88 Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Just the like Browns, they plan to interview coaches and now do this without a GM. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 ....Rebate Jimmy is pushing hard to have Cleveland officially anointed, 'THE Mistake by the Lake"....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 13 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Relative to this conversation, I thought you’d find this piece of info from Albert Breer interesting: ”Dolphins offensive coordinator Chad O’Shea was let go, and I’m told that part of it was Brian Flores’s desire to move away from his Patriot roots on that side of the ball. Why does that make sense? My theory is that since Miami’s going to be really young the next couple years, running a scheme with the complexity of New England’s might be tough on the players developmentally. Which is why it wouldn’t surprise me if we see some more college ideas infused into what Miami is doing.” https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/12/31/nfl-black-monday-coaching-rumors-mock-draft Interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 20 hours ago, ColoradoBills said: Your questions are asked by the majority of Bills fans. Unfortunately none of us are privy to what happens in the bowels of OBD. Thinking about this again, it's probably worth noting that's a Very Good Thing and a pleasant change from years gone by where the rumors flew thick and heavy 20 hours ago, ColoradoBills said: None of us know what Beane and McDermott's long term "learning plan" and timeline for Josh Allen has been. None of know what kind of discussions and debates there are with Daboll and what his opinions/recommendations are to his bosses. None of us know what Josh Allen is saying or thinking concerning his development behind closed doors. We have no idea what Beane and McDermott think of Dabolls' game day planning and play calling. This might be a good place to bring up Josh Allen's presser yesterday. https://www.buffalobills.com/video/josh-allen-it-s-what-we-worked-for About 4 min in. He was asked what kind of emotions he goes through when he heard Daboll is interviewing for the Browns HC position. Said he didn't even know that. Said we're so focused on the Texans right now and he's sure Coach Daboll would say the same thing. Said he's "extremely grateful for what he's [Daboll] has done for me and how we continue to work together and if that time comes that time comes, but for now, we're focused on the Texans" Seems Allen weighed in pretty strongly with his opinion of Coach Daboll. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, dave mcbride said: Relative to this conversation, I thought you’d find this piece of info from Albert Breer interesting: ”Dolphins offensive coordinator Chad O’Shea was let go, and I’m told that part of it was Brian Flores’s desire to move away from his Patriot roots on that side of the ball. Why does that make sense? My theory is that since Miami’s going to be really young the next couple years, running a scheme with the complexity of New England’s might be tough on the players developmentally. Which is why it wouldn’t surprise me if we see some more college ideas infused into what Miami is doing.” https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/12/31/nfl-black-monday-coaching-rumors-mock-draft It was risky putting Allen in a complex system and IMO it's more a testament to Allen's intelligence than the coaching he's received that he's been a serviceable game manager. They could have adapted to more of a college system. But in fairness it wasn't like he was as natural of a fit into a simplified system either because his natural accuracy isn't on par with guys like Jackson, Mahomes or Watson. He needed the work on his mechanics to make up for the lack of "shortstop" athletic accuracy in his game. That's why I think burning the EP system and the mechanics and timing it requires into his mind are probably a better thing for him in the long run. I just wish there was more in-between because this offense is very frustrating to watch. Edited January 1, 2020 by BADOLBILZ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 1 hour ago, dave mcbride said: Relative to this conversation, I thought you’d find this piece of info from Albert Breer interesting: ”Dolphins offensive coordinator Chad O’Shea was let go, and I’m told that part of it was Brian Flores’s desire to move away from his Patriot roots on that side of the ball. Why does that make sense? My theory is that since Miami’s going to be really young the next couple years, running a scheme with the complexity of New England’s might be tough on the players developmentally. Which is why it wouldn’t surprise me if we see some more college ideas infused into what Miami is doing.” https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/12/31/nfl-black-monday-coaching-rumors-mock-draft Although oddly, isn’t that basically the system Tua is versed in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsMafia828 Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 On 12/30/2019 at 7:30 PM, Not at the table Karlos said: Don’t think he gets the job there but say he does. Who are the best OC options out there? For the love of God lets hope he gets the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 9 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: Although oddly, isn’t that basically the system Tua is versed in? I don’t know. I kinda doubt Daboll ran a NE system at Bama, and in any event Tua only played for one half plus an OT possession under Daboll (in catch-up mode for the most part too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 On December 31, 2019 at 4:04 AM, Mr. WEO said: Well, and scoring. And you would still be incorrect. First 8 games 18.9 ppg (does not include the special teams TD against Miami). Last 8 games excluding the Jets game 21.4ppg There was no drop off as you suggested as the season went on. And factoring that the degree of difficulty was significantly greater in the second half facing so many good defenses it actually looks like Allen and Daboll got better as the season went on. You want to hang your hat on passing yards and completion percentage then fine. But passing yards is a meaningless stat. All five passing yards leaders missed the playoffs. Lamar Jackson threw for less yards per game than Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 On 12/30/2019 at 9:13 PM, Reed83HOF said: I don't think Daboll would take the job - I sure as hell wouldn't. I would wait for a better opp well, Ron took the Washington job. Anything is possible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 24 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: And you would still be incorrect. First 8 games 18.9 ppg (does not include the special teams TD against Miami). Last 8 games excluding the Jets game 21.4ppg There was no drop off as you suggested as the season went on. And factoring that the degree of difficulty was significantly greater in the second half facing so many good defenses it actually looks like Allen and Daboll got better as the season went on. You want to hang your hat on passing yards and completion percentage then fine. But passing yards is a meaningless stat. All five passing yards leaders missed the playoffs. Lamar Jackson threw for less yards per game than Allen. This year is an anomaly. Passing yards matter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: It was risky putting Allen in a complex system and IMO it's more a testament to Allen's intelligence than the coaching he's received that he's been a serviceable game manager. They could have adapted to more of a college system. But in fairness it wasn't like he was as natural of a fit into a simplified system either because his natural accuracy isn't on par with guys like Jackson, Mahomes or Watson. He needed the work on his mechanics to make up for the lack of "shortstop" athletic accuracy in his game. That's why I think burning the EP system and the mechanics and timing it requires into his mind are probably a better thing for him in the long run. I just wish there was more in-between because this offense is very frustrating to watch. IMO, I think Beane, McD and Daboll knew that they wanted to install a complex, yet highly productive professional offense. So they drafted a guy with high upside and intelligence . Because no matter who they drafted it was going to be a multiyear learning curve. But, IF Allen learns it all, IF they get a few other pieces to fall in place, then we have an offense to lead the team for years and not a flash in the pan type season. So, do they see the current offensive inconsistency as just part of the learning curve? If so, then my guess is they're more than happy with the way its looking, regardless of the stats and standings. And, assuming Allen continues to grow and mature into the system next year, then so am I. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 30 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: This year is an anomaly. Passing yards matter. This year was a revelation. Passing yards are correlated, but not the cause of winning games. There is a minimum threshold for winning games. Anything above that threshold is unimportant, but if you are throwing less than that threshold you are dead in the water. Not sure what the number is, but I'd guess it's around 215 yards passing. Consistently less than that and you are not going to consistently win games. Anything more than that is enough to consistently win games. Someone would have to run the analysis to find out what the actual number is. Winning a game is more like an equation than a single stat. Throwing for 500 yards but 5 INT's and no TD's is going to be a loss. Throwing for 150 yards and 5 TD's is going to be a win. There's a sweet spot somewhere that includes yards, TD's, and turnovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 8 minutes ago, Dan said: IMO, I think Beane, McD and Daboll knew that they wanted to install a complex, yet highly productive professional offense. So they drafted a guy with high upside and intelligence . Because no matter who they drafted it was going to be a multiyear learning curve. But, IF Allen learns it all, IF they get a few other pieces to fall in place, then we have an offense to lead the team for years and not a flash in the pan type season. So, do they see the current offensive inconsistency as just part of the learning curve? If so, then my guess is they're more than happy with the way its looking, regardless of the stats and standings. And, assuming Allen continues to grow and mature into the system next year, then so am I. I wonder the same thing. If it isn't then Daboll won't be here long. If it is then Daboll needs at least another year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 7 minutes ago, MJS said: Winning a game is more like an equation than a single stat. Throwing for 500 yards but 5 INT's and no TD's is going to be a loss. Throwing for 150 yards and 5 TD's is going to be a win. There's a sweet spot somewhere that includes yards, TD's, and turnovers. The passing stats that best correlate with wins are passer rating and ANY/A: http://www.footballperspective.com/any-a-rushing-yards-and-winning-percentage/ Total passing yards barely has any correlation to wins. Every other major passing statistic correlates better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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