billsfan_34 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 57 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Other than someone who stays in their lane, and maintains containment? Not entirely sure. Maybe someone who can block punts/kicks as well? Who does that on the Bills? No one- I think we had 1 tipped fg that caused a miss. Our Special Teams does nothing special. When is the last time we blocked a punt, took a return to the house etc..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 The same thing that they think makes him a good WR his speed but to this point we haven't seen anything other than his speed because he's not making a difference when on the field ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, T master said: The same thing that they think makes him a good WR his speed but to this point we haven't seen anything other than his speed because he's not making a difference when on the field ... He's been open. Eye in the sky don't lie. Edited December 30, 2019 by Buffalo_Stampede 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesus Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 The key to being a great gunner is to turn your back right before they block you to draw the block in the back penalty 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Pygmy Goat Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 48 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Other than someone who stays in their lane, and maintains containment? Not entirely sure. Maybe someone who can block punts/kicks as well? That's pretty much it. Unless PFF has a rating.... I guess you could watch every ST play, and grade his performance on each one, then grade the overall ST performance by the unit on each play that he's in for, and compare that to their performance without said player, and come to a reasonable conclusion on the player's effect on ST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayboy54 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 The number one attribute for a gunner on teams is speed. Foster has that. Even if he takes a moment longer to disengage from the initial block, he will arrive downfield well before the ten other players. Then, his lane responsibilities when executed correctly, force the returner to either fair catch or return into the teeth of the coverage. No differently than any other defensive play, the object is to "contain" the ball carrier and prevent them from getting outside the coverage. This is known as "containment." There are a couple other facets too. When running downfield, it is necessary to avoid being pushed off course or out of bounds. Not because it takes you out of the play, but because it delays your arrival at the returner. Again, top speed allows Foster to beat the angle of the guy attempting to slow him by redirecting his path downfield. Additionally, once he has arrived downfield, the gunner must "pinch" inward toward the location of the returner so as to "contain" and direct his path toward the coverage. Yet again, speed makes this so much easier. If Foster can run around the edge and still arrive to pinch in at the right spot at the right time, he has done his job perfectly. Finally, if everything goes to plan, Foster might be able to arrive at his spot early enough to pop the returner just as he catches the ball, or at least slow his initial start enough to allow the slower coverage guys to make the tackle. In the best case, Foster may even make the tackle. Regardless of the blocking scheme on any return, if you have the speed and therefore can outrun the blockers, you will most likely disrupt the return enough to allow the other guys to clean-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetermansRedemption Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, BuffalothruMyVeins said: Excellent point. If we want all of these reps for our 3rd, 4th, 5th WRs, it will mean taking our TEs and/or RB off the field. Our OL isn't strong enough yet to not have a TE on the field potentially helping block, and our passing game is not efficient enough to take our RB off the field, making it obvious we will be passing. Goodbye Lee Smith. Roll with Kroft and Knox who at least have a tiny inkling of offense in their games. Edited December 30, 2019 by PetermansRedemption Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalophil1948 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Would really like to see McKenzie give it a shot at gunner. If all you want is speed to get down there. Not that it would take a lot of speed to cover a 30-40yd punt. Just a thought to get Duke active. Not really on his bandwagon but he does bring something to the offense that is sorely needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayboy54 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 10 minutes ago, Buffalophil1948 said: Would really like to see McKenzie give it a shot at gunner. If all you want is speed to get down there. Not that it would take a lot of speed to cover a 30-40yd punt. Just a thought to get Duke active. Not really on his bandwagon but he does bring something to the offense that is sorely needed It's really rough out there on teams. McKenzie is a little guy and he's a regular on offense. Do you risk getting him dinged-up on teams and lose him on offense? If the answer is yes, then by all means give it a go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 2 hours ago, cage said: That's his point. If ST is 1/3 of the game, why isn't there more comprehensive stats measuring the key roles like there are on Offense and Defense. Surprised that there's not a more sophisticated way to track whether/why Robert Foster is a good gunner. ST isn't 1/3 of the game. It's more like 1/9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalophil1948 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 28 minutes ago, clayboy54 said: It's really rough out there on teams. McKenzie is a little guy and he's a regular on offense. Do you risk getting him dinged-up on teams and lose him on offense? If the answer is yes, then by all means give it a go. Definitely wouldn't want him to get hurt, but that is a possibility on every play. Besides what I wanted to point out is that the punts aren't very deep or returnable or consistentfor that matter. Get down there quick and force a fair catch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 13 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: ST isn't 1/3 of the game. It's more like 1/9. With the rule changes for kickoffs, extra points and onside kicks, this is a legitimate point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayboy54 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Buffalophil1948 said: Definitely wouldn't want him to get hurt, but that is a possibility on every play. Besides what I wanted to point out is that the punts aren't very deep or returnable or consistentfor that matter. Get down there quick and force a fair catch I get your point about Bojorquez. It still doesn't negate the possibility of a return and some serious impacts. On my risk/reward scale I might pass on this, myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalophil1948 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, clayboy54 said: I get your point about Bojorquez. It still doesn't negate the possibility of a return and some serious impacts. On my risk/reward scale I might pass on this, myself. It is a risk, but getting a big possession receiver on offense to help sustain drives and be a redzone threat is the reward. Longer drives keeping the D rested. The main reason we lost to the Pat's was the D was gassed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayboy54 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Buffalophil1948 said: It is a risk, but getting a big possession receiver on offense to help sustain drives and be a redzone threat is the reward. Longer drives keeping the D rested. The main reason we lost to the Pat's was the D was gassed I'm really curious to know what Duke needs to improve upon in the coaches eyes. Sure he dropped a couple, but that's not it though. Maybe he is running sloppy routes or missing his reads or something. In the postgame presser, McDermott mentioned that he's a young guy and he has some plays he would like to have back. He also made sure to smile and mention that he seems to be a fan favorite and brings the juice. To me that's like saying you like him but we aren't sold on him yet. I guess we'll see what happens on Saturday afternoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalophil1948 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, clayboy54 said: I'm really curious to know what Duke needs to improve upon in the coaches eyes. Sure he dropped a couple, but that's not it though. Maybe he is running sloppy routes or missing his reads or something. In the postgame presser, McDermott mentioned that he's a young guy and he has some plays he would like to have back. He also made sure to smile and mention that he seems to be a fan favorite and brings the juice. To me that's like saying you like him but we aren't sold on him yet. I guess we'll see what happens on Saturday afternoon. Either way GO BILLS!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalostu2 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: He's made a few good tackles on special teams. Question you should ask is who replaces Foster as a gunner. Our special teams isn't very good in the 1st place. A big return can change the game. We'll see what they do. I think Williams will get a chance. People have to remember though that Mckenzie is the 3rd WR on the team snap wise, not Foster. Mckenzie likely still plays his 50% or so of snaps. Does Williams get Mckenzies snaps? Probably not. So does it make sense to bench your gunner so Williams sits on the bench 85% of the offensive snaps? Deandre Carter has only returned 3 kicks at home all year. Plus 22 punts for a 9.7 yd average. is there risk, sure, but we are going to need more from the #2 WR position to compete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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