Has there been a "great" coach who is clearly conservative?

[Locomark]

Yes, whoever won those cups with Jersey playing the left wing lock. Most boring hockey on the planet. 

[Rochesterfan]

3 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I agree with a lot of this, and earlier I also said it depends on your definition of conservative. Apparently there are a lot more definitions than I imagined.

 

But 1) no conservative coach is always conservative and no aggressive or non-conservative coach is always aggressive, 2) going on fourth and one is not usually even a conservative v. aggressive by nature choice, it is going by the numbers and game specific. McDermott is clearly a conservative coach by nature on offense, defense, timeouts, stepping on the gas and trying to put teams away (which he never does), punting, etc. That's not even in question IMO.

 

I totally disagree that it is not in question- it appears that it is not in question for you, but as many other are pointing out - in your very thread and you seem to be happy to ignore - they do not feel he is very conservative and he has been changing with the team.

 

Many of us see a guy that has been constantly changing and his tendencies have changed with the team as it grows.  Year 1 he was conservative - with a very bad offense and a questionable defense.  Year 2 as JA became more accomplished as a rookie - he became more aggressive- going for it more and punting less - especially as he got past mid field.  This year the offense is marginally better and he has been more aggressive yet.  He is middle of the pact for 4th down attempts - which most definitely is a sign of aggression - especially for defensive HCs.  He runs both hurry up and regular offenses - so he is not overly conservative with his style.

 

I agree he does not step on the throat of the other team, but the offense still has a ways to go (it is the weakness of the team).  He has tried a few times and things have not gone well.  I think he is working the long game on this and would rather hoist the burden on the more experienced and consistent defense than put JA and the offense in a bad position.

 

I think you have made up your mind and although many others have presented various facts of how he has changed- you are choosing to believe he is a finished product.  I am not convinced that is the case.  I think he will continue to grow along with this team and they are becoming better together.  He is working hard to do what he feels is in the best interest of the team and sometimes that is different than what the fans think.  

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Kelly the Dog said:

He is a good example of what I would call a very good but not great coach, and his conservatism when he got into a big game or the playoffs was his downfall. This is a guy who was fired after a 14-2 season IIRC for being too conservative overall and playing it safe.

 

Bill Cowher was Marty 2.0.

 

He lost 4 AFC Championship games.......AT HOME!    One of the years his team was 15-1.

 

He finally broke thru and won his SB in his 14th season with the Steelers but would otherwise be remembered as one of the great playoff failing coaches ever.

[Nick the Greek]

11 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Classic thread.  Ask a leading question, get numerous answers showing why you might be wrong, then either refuse to accept the answer or change the question.

You hit the nail on the head. I brought up the fact McD has gone for it on 4th down a few times, and gone for 2 on multiple occasions as well. He has definitely been aggressive at times.
 

And crickets from the “he’s too conservative” crowd.

 

I mean, what more do you want, him to go for it on every 4th down???!! 

[ColoradoBills]

11 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Classic thread.  Ask a leading question, get numerous answers showing why you might be wrong, then either refuse to accept the answer or change the question.

 

Exactly.  I heard that Lou Saban once voted for Barry Goldwater.

That statement is as relevant as any other in this thread.

[Kelly the Dog]

16 minutes ago, Nick the Greek said:

You hit the nail on the head. I brought up the fact McD has gone for it on 4th down a few times, and gone for 2 on multiple occasions as well. He has definitely been aggressive at times.
 

And crickets from the “he’s too conservative” crowd.

 

I mean, what more do you want, him to go for it on every 4th down???!! 

Going for it on fourth down is almost always a no brainer to either kick or go for it. The 10-20% that it's actually a choice is often due to outside factors. Like a couple times when McD went for it on 4th down it was because he had zero confidence in his injured kicker. That was an easy decision, and neither shows aggressiveness nor being conservative.

[IDBillzFan]

On 12/21/2019 at 6:30 PM, SWATeam said:

I think McD can “evolve” to being more aggressive when he is confident he has the horses.  

 

Right now, I’d say this is how he thinks we can win.  The formula is good D and limited mistakes, winning close games- until we see more from the offense.  When we have a real offense hopefully the philosophy changes.

 

This is precisely where I fall. I'd be hard-pressed to give specific examples at this moment, but my sense is that he has gotten more aggressive as the season moved on. This isn't a team that can consistently score from anywhere on the field, so until then he's riding the horses he has and not the horses he ultimately hopes to have. Go get a big-body receiver who can contest and bring down the jump ball, for starters, and it'll be easier to get more aggressive. 

[Nick the Greek]

1 hour ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Going for it on fourth down is almost always a no brainer to either kick or go for it. The 10-20% that it's actually a choice is often due to outside factors. Like a couple times when McD went for it on 4th down it was because he had zero confidence in his injured kicker. That was an easy decision, and neither shows aggressiveness nor being conservative.

To actually go for it on 4th down versus trying for a field goal is always more aggressive, as you will take an easy 3 versus rolling the dice for 7.

now if the field goal is a 50+ yarder, going for it in that situation is REALLY aggressive, because of you don’t covert, you turn over in downs and the opposing team has great field position. 
 

I don’t see how you could ever argue kicking it is the same as going for it on 4th down. The 4th down try is always a bigger gamble. 

 

[mabden]

On 12/21/2019 at 9:25 PM, BringMetheHeadofLeonLett said:

Chuck Knox, Tom Landry

I was going to say Landry, but Knox also fits the bill.

[CardinalScotts]

Bellichick his first 10 years had  the #1 or 2 defense every  years he punted on the other side of the 50 a lot

still went for it on 4th down often but relied on his defense......ie brady 145yds first super bowl win but had the #1 ranked defense

 

Tomlin ultra conservative coach at times

John Harbaugh probably the most conservative of them all

Dungy super duper conservative

Pete Carrol is a mix more conservative than not

Mike Zimmer CONSERVATIVE

Dan Quinn very conservative to a fault

 

John Fox

 

going back years:

Schottenheimer

Gibbs

Landry

Vermiel ultra conservative in his early yearts..ucla-philadelphia then free wheeling with Chiefs-Rams

Seifert

 

actually a ton

7 hours ago, matter2003 said:

 

If its to be believed, McDermott allows Daboll to call what he wants on offense without interference which would mean Daboll is the conservative one not McDermott.

I disagree with the lead i think McD has a mission for Daboll  i.e. force them to use their timeouts ...or keep it on the ground

Edited December 29, 2019 by CardinalScotts

[cba fan]

On 12/22/2019 at 3:59 AM, Nitro said:

Lombardi, Landry, Grant, Knoll, and Dungy, to name a few 

Mike Ditka, Tom Coughlin, Kirk Ferentz,