Allen slammed on ESPN

[Billl]

1 hour ago, Success said:

"His fans"?  You're not a fan of the Bills quarterback?

 

Comically bad is extreme, imo.  He made some huge mistakes - so did Drew Brees.  But he also overcame them.  He led us to the tying score & what should have been the winning score.  That's really about all I can ask, especially at this stage of his career.

 

Nobody is accusing Drew Brees of playing a good game by his standards.  That’s my point.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Billl said:

Nobody is accusing Drew Brees of playing a good game by his standards.  That’s my point.

Have you watched other QBs in their first playoff games? Did you see the league MVP's first playoff game last year? How about Watson's first playoff start at home vs Colts at home no less?

[billsfan1959]

1 hour ago, Meatloaf63 said:

Nope not interested in engaging the people in this forum who already made up theirs minds, there is no having a decent discussion, it has been proven for almost two seasons now. The adjectives are correct in this instance, call them what you may. There are certain individuals here that have no intention to have an open conversation, you can show them statistics, videos, comparisons, and they ignore all of it, so I for one  will no longer even try. 
Anyone who wants to listen to opinions and facts I will have a dialog with, I actually was proven wrong on how Duke dropped his pass earlier today and I fully admit it. But there is no back n forth, no give in take, it is what it is and after this season I am not interested in these certain posters anymore....

 

Agree, it is unfortunate. It doesn't matter what your stance is. If you can support it with with real factual analyses and be open to the same, the discussions are better, more interesting, and more productive. Those that take an extreme stance in either direction are really more interested in imposing their views then engaging in honest dialogue.

[Success]

45 minutes ago, Amaru523 said:

I don't understand all this talk of "Allen fans".  I'm a life long die-hard Buffalo Bills fan, that means I'm a fan of every player on the team.  Why cant the fans defending him just be Bills fans that want our QB to succeed? I didn't want Allen, but he actually grew on me and his improvement from year 1 to 2 was pretty significant.  Does he make bad decisions? Obviously, but he can learn from his mistakes, and if he does, he's got the tools to be a very good, maybe great QB for us.  If the FO can get his some more weapons for next year, I guarantee he'll improve even more. He's probably not going anywhere anytime soon, and the Bills are just a couple pieces away from taking over the AFC East, which IMO will happen next year, so nows not the time to start over at QB.

The "Allen fans" thing is something that has always been.  "Apologist" has sometimes been used instead of "fan."

 

It's been true of every QB since Kelly.  Until a QB wins the Lombardi here, they will NOT get the benefit of the doubt. Which is fine, of course - it goes w/ the territory. But I think a lot of our fans forget the context of what the expectations for a 2nd year guy in his 1st playoff game should be.  

 

[1billsfan]

I think what the Josh Allen detractors are failing to understand that the kid’s got a huge ceiling, he’s clearly getting better and the sky is still the limit with him.

 

QBs like Mahomes and Watson are pretty much almost at their ceilings. Mahomes stepped right into the perfect situation with coaching, talent around him, and the system he’s working in... and Watson played at the highest level in college football while also just finishing his third year in the NFL. Allen came from Wyoming and he just finished his second year of pro football. There's a big difference there.

 

Fans need to step back a bit on the harsh criticism of Josh, IMO he’s shown a lot of promise of down the road, becoming one of the NFL’s top QBs.

[Billl]

3 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Have you watched other QBs in their first playoff games? Did you see the league MVP's first playoff game last year? How about Watson's first playoff start at home vs Colts at home no less?

Yeah.  They were bad games.  I don’t think their fan bases were trying to pretend otherwise.  

[egd]

3 hours ago, Success said:

But I think a lot of our fans forget the context of what the expectations for a 2nd year guy in his 1st playoff game should be.  

 

 

Jim Kelly won his first playoff game in 1988, vs. Houston, coincidentally.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

9 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

The Eli SBs were complete flukes. Teams lucky to make the playoffs and just pull games out of their butts.  It was the most insane run of luck ever.

 

and Allen is going to be due a major contract in a few years that totally changes this team.  For the all the cap room we have, it will go pretty fast.  I just want to us to have a guy that can carry us like Wilson, rather than be along for the ride like Flacco. 

 

Russell Wilson's first playoff game he was: 15/26   187 Yards  57.7 CMP%   1TD   0 INT - 8 Rushes   67 Yards   8.4 YPC  0  TD.  Josh was: 24/46   264 Yards    52.5 CMP%   0 TD   0 INT -  9 Rushes   92 Yards    10.2 YPC - 1 REC   16 Yards   16.0 AVG  1 TD. Russell fumbled once but it was recovered, Josh fumbled twice one recovered one lost. Russell's total Plays where he was directly involved: 34 plays   254 Total Yards   7.47 AVG    1 TD    0 Turnover. Josh's total plays where he was directly involved: 56 Plays   372 Total Yards   6.64AVG   1 TD   1 Turnover. They avg out fairly close except Josh had a turnover and Russell didn't.

 

The biggest thing that I see different is the amount of plays the Seahawks asked from Russell and how many the Bills asked from Josh(34 vs 56) in a game we were either winning or tied for almost the entire game. 60% more plays it adds up to. The Seahawks passed 26 times and rushed 37 times. The Josh passed 46 times while we rushed 30 times. Russell got strong help from Lynch who had 20 Rushes(Almost the total of our RBs) for 132 Yards(More than the total of our RBs) & 1 TD(More than the total of our RBs), the TD we were missing. The Seahawks kicked 3 FGs that day, we kicked 4. The point is Russell got a really strong running game from Lynch and his team(29/157 1 TD). Josh got 21/80  0 TD from his RBs.

 

Some people are saying he was trying to do too much, he was asked to do too much in his first playoff game.  He was asked to be "the guy" on 56 plays or 70% of their snaps. Damn right he tried to do too much because he was ASKED to do almost everything.

 

Tannehill's first playoff game they asked him to throw only 15 times and he only had 4 rushes, 19 total plays. The next closest  QB for total plays, from last weekend, was Wilson and Watson with 39 total plays, 39 vs 56 and Tannehill only had 19. Tannehill benefited from a 182 yard game from Henry and 1 TD, once again the one we lacked.

 

Russell's defense held their opponent to 14 points and got 2 turnovers, Tannehill's defense held their opponent to 13 points and got 2 turnovers including a pick six. Russell got a FG on a drive of 1 yard in his game. Josh's defense gave up 22 points and got 1 turnover.  They, like most young QBs who win their first playoff game, got help from their defense and their RBs and weren't asked to do too much,they weren't asked to carry their offense. For how much they asked of him(70% of their plays)I thought he did well, with a few plays that were really big and a few he knows he shouldn't have made. Does he deserve some of the blame, yes, but besides a couple plays I thought he held up well.

 

Most young QBs in their first playoff game have some things that are good and they still have some flaws.

 

A good OC will protect a young QB in their first playoff experience, not ask them to do too much and expose them.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2020 by LOVEMESOMEBILLS

[Scott7975]

15 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

Good post above, oldmanfan. I wanted to show these two plays.

 

On the fumble you referred to, you are right, he absolutely was in the process of deciding to run or pass. From different angles, you can see Beasley separating from his defender and moving toward the middle of the field. In the video below, IMO, Allen was starting to raise his arm to make that throw when Mercilus got his fingertips on the ball.

 

 

What bothers me the most about the play above is that people want to be quick to blame Allen for being reckless. Other than Hapless, in another thread, I haven't heard anyone mention the fact that Allen was still behind the line of scrimmage, moving up in the pocket, and, somehow, Knox, Singletary, and Dawkins all failed to block Mercilus as he was moving toward the pocket.

 

As for the QB sweep, right again. Unbelieveable how Knox fails to get his shoulder on Cunningham or Morse after he sees Knox whiff. This play should have been the end of the game.

 

 

In addition to the pass plays I showed above, which should have been caught by anyone's standard - and would have completely changed the complexion of the game. There were three other passes I talked about in other threads that also should have been caught:

 

The throw to Williams (11 Yds) that got called back on a penalty in the 3rd Qtr

The throw to Brown on the sideline (17 Yds) in the 4th Qtr

The throw to Williams on the sideline in the 4th qtr (20 yds)

 

All of them were perfect thows from Allen. All of them could, and should, have been caught (two actually were caught by Brown but idiotic sideline awareness negated them, and one Williams was caught but called back on a penalty). That's probably two touchdowns instead of two field goals and the complexion of the game is completely changed.

 

People want to talk about how Allen "threw up all over himself" or had a complete meltown in the second half (although, during this "meltdown," he still managed to take his team to a game tying FG, and put his team in position for a game winning FG attempt in OT (had Ford not taken that penalty).

 

The truth is: Allen made some poor decisions in the second half; however, he did a lot more good then bad. If the five catches I described in this and other posts are caught as they should have been, that's 5 more completions and 90 more passing yards for Allen  to go with his 264 passing yards, 92 yards rushing, and 16 receiving yards. That's 462 yards of total offense for Allen and a completion percentage of 62%.

 

Yeah, he "threw up all over himself."

 

This should be read over and over again.  Allen had his faults but he had no help.  The team threw up.

[reddogblitz]

22 minutes ago, egd said:

 

Jim Kelly won his first playoff game in 1988, vs. Houston, coincidentally.

 

Patrick Mahommes won his first playoff game last year.

[Scott7975]

7 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I agree.  I just worry Allen is always going to be a roller coaster.  Definitely not boring but as early as it is in his career, the SB window is already narrowing. 

Defense has carried this team all year.  I don’t disagree that part of the issue is McDermott’s philosophy but there were plenty of times the offense could have ended this game.  

 

Right.. plenty of time the offense could have ended the game.  Not just Allen.  Allen missed plays yes.  Allen also made many plays that would have ended the game and the skill guys missed.

[Success]

Allen made about 5-6 plays in that game that I don't think any QB in our history could have made.

 

He also had some real headscratchers.

 

On balance, I'll sign up for that every time.  It's just fun to watch, and if he can turn those 5-6 plays into a dozen or so, we might have something.

[HalftimeAdjustment]

So, after reading some posts here I guess the question in my mind is... can someone teach Knox how to block or do we need to look at another option?

[Jaywrizzo]

On 1/8/2020 at 6:45 AM, billsfan1959 said:

 

My feelings are not hurt over anything. Nor am I blind to faults of Allen. My point was that people like you will always see what you want to see because you clearly have no ability to ever be open to the idea that you are wrong. And you are.

 

 

Your response here was to someone talking about the throws to Williams in the endzone and Brown at the 2 yard line. Watch the videos below - the throws were on the money. I rest my case on what I said above and will go a bit further. Your assessment of Allen goes beyond just a refusal to acknowledge you are wrong, it shows you have absolutely no ability at all to objectively and accurately analyze football. Which, pretty much means you have absolutely no credibility on a football message board.

 

 

Show me the play where he threw to the double covered FB 40 yds down the field.....show me the play where he took sacks on back to back plays to take us out of field goal range( He's been doing that all season) Everybody else fault.....No....I want Allen to be Good but I'm not going to blind to the mistakes he constantly make, just bcuz I'm a fan of the team....I'll let you do that.

 

On 1/8/2020 at 11:35 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

What are you talking about?

I know...bcuzYou don't have a clue what you're watching.

[Jaywrizzo]

On 1/8/2020 at 7:51 AM, oldmanfan said:

Ok, let's be objective.  I know this rarely happens around here, but let's try.

 

You say Allen "threw up all over himself".  Really?  Here are the plays people keep blasting him about; let's look with a clear eye at each:

 

1.  The lateral.  The lateral was stupid.  However, the lateral came at the end of a play where Josh used his running ability to take off for a big gain and put the team in scoring position.  And while lucky, the lateral had no effect on the outcome of the game.  Funny how folks forget the run that led to the lateral at the end of the play.

 

2.  The intentional grounding.  The rush got on him quick, and what he should have done was throw the ball away to either take a shot on fourth down or take a shot at a long FG.  That was a mistake.  What also was a mistake was that Mercilous was on him within a second or two because Smith And Singletary forgot to block anyone on the play.  But we ignore that, I suppose.

 

3.  The fumble:  Josh's fumble that led them to a FG hurt.  He was in the middle of trying to figure out whether to run or pass when he got hit by Mercilous.  We can all agree I think that he needs to work on protecting the ball when running. 

 

4.  The pass to DiMarco:  DiMarco had inside position on the defenders, and if he had timed his jump a split second later he makes the catch, or at least should make the catch.  So the he question is:  why are we ragging on allen for that play?  DiMarco makes the catch we kick the FG and win.  Is it because he threw into double coverage?  NO, because again DiMarco had position.  Is it because DiMarco was a FB and not a WR?  If so , that's on the play design and not the QB.

 

Now let's talk about some things Allen did right:

 

1.  The throws right on the money shown by billfan1959 above.  Throws right on the money that guys did not come up with.  Why is it that QBs on other teams rely on their receivers to make plays, and the receivers get criticized when they don't but in Buffalo if a receiver doesn't make a play it's Allen's fault ? 

 

2.  16-0 lead in the first half.

 

3.  1:16 left and no time outs, and the QB leads the team down the field to tie the game, including (finally) a great screen to Singletary, and a great slant to Beasley to get the in position to kick the tying FG.

 

4.  In OT, move the team down the field to get in position to kick the game winner, which happens if not for the Ford penalty and/or if one of three guys blocks Cunningham on the QB sweep.

 

So threw up on himself?  Think again.  Take yourself out of your I didn't want them to draft him ergo everything he does is bad mode.  And think.

 

 

What are You talking about? He designed a play where your FB got doubled teamed and your QB didn't know to go elsewhere.....That's on Allen....Your FB is not an option.....I don't care if the lateral didn't hurt us.....be smart enough not to do it...He's a FB....who in there right mind is expecting him to make that catch...He's not Larry Centers....I need my QB to be smart. U can make all the excuses U want for him, I'm not! Hopefully he learns from it and plays better next season....If not, those same people, U FANS are crying about people coming after him, will be on him again.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 minutes ago, Jaywrizzo said:

[to me]

I know...bcuzYou don't have a clue what you're watching.

 

Dude.  You wrote:

 

On 1/7/2020 at 11:02 PM, Jaywrizzo said:

Maybe we should talk about the reason why he was targeting Duke Williams so much....or why he's throwing a pass to a FB that's double covered 40 yds down the field....You make sense of that...any fool can see Allen's not Watson or Mahomes, regardless who he's throwing the ball to....This dude had the worst % on hitting a deep pass.....NO CHANCE FOR A TOE TAP WHEN THE BALL IS THROWN 10 YDS OVER THE HEAD OF AN OPEN WR...

Allen is getting slammed bcuz he played like garbage the 2nd half of the game and deserves to be getting slammed....What are they supposed to say? He played great? No...leave it to the blind fans to tell you that garbage.

 

I asked what are you talking about?  Where is this play where a ball was thrown 10 yds over the head of an open WR?

 

Are you gonna answer or are you gonna posture?

 

 

[Scott7975]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Dude.  You wrote:

 

 

I asked what are you talking about?  Where is this play where a ball was thrown 10 yds over the head of an open WR?

 

Are you gonna answer or are you gonna posture?

 

 

 

obvious troll man

[Stank_Nasty]

Just now, Scott7975 said:

 

obvious troll man

What’s frightening here is I think he’s being quite serious. 
 

Yikes. 

18 hours ago, HalftimeAdjustment said:

So, after reading some posts here I guess the question in my mind is... can someone teach Knox how to block or do we need to look at another option?

The frustrating thing is he executed that same block perfectly on the first drive of the game. 
 

Even just alter the linebackers path and we are kicking the game winning chip shot a couple plays later. 
 

that freaking missed block makes me ill. 

[Jaywrizzo]

12 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Dude.  You wrote:

 

 

I asked what are you talking about?  Where is this play where a ball was thrown 10 yds over the head of an open WR?

 

Are you gonna answer or are you gonna posture?

 

 

You didn't see that this year??? 90% of his deep throws.

[LSHMEAB]

9 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

What’s frightening here is I think he’s being quite serious. 
 

Yikes. 

The frustrating thing is he executed that same block perfectly on the first drive of the game. 
 

Even just alter the linebackers path and we are kicking the game winning chip shot a couple plays later. 
 

that freaking missed block makes me ill. 

The disdain for Knox's lack of awareness is entirely warranted, but I'm personally more irritated that our "cerebral" center was marching down the field blocking air while the play was transpiring. Then he turns around and shakes his head. Man, get that head turned around DURING the play Mitch.