Possible Bills coaching changes in 2020 [Mod edited]

[Nihilarian]

12 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

They may block it, but that's beside the point.  I don't see how he gets a look.

 

I think that a lot of GMs looking at Allen last Sunday would not agree with you that JA's current level of play is a massive success.  Certainly not enough, on its own, to get anyone a new job.

 

I dumped on Rivera a lot, but I believe he was a better HC than Daboll would be.  Bad teams make bad HC choices and Daboll is a guy who's only professional "success" in football (college or NFL) has come via his proximity to great HCs.  Success by association.  On "bad teams" he has been a dud as OC.

I agree with this.

 

Daboll might have gotten some looks had the Bills won that Ravens game. He still might get some looks if the Bills offense comes alive against the Steelers, Patriots, Jets and the Bills offense looks good.

 

The Bills lose the next three I gotta think Daboll is history In Buffalo.

 

[Kirby Jackson]

20 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

They may block it, but that's beside the point.  I don't see how he gets a look.

 

I think that a lot of GMs looking at Allen last Sunday would not agree with you that JA's current level of play is a massive success.  Certainly not enough, on its own, to get anyone a new job.

 

I dumped on Rivera a lot, but I believe he was a better HC than Daboll would be.  Bad teams make bad HC choices and Daboll is a guy who's only professional "success" in football (college or NFL) has come via his proximity to great HCs.  Success by association.  On "bad teams" he has been a dud as OC.

Again, he’s already being mentioned as a candidate in Carolina. Whether he will be a good HC (or even a good interview) is totally different than will he get looks. He is definitely going to get looks. He may not get a job. If he does get a job he may not be any good. 

[The Jokeman]

I don't think anyone from coaching staff going anywhere unless we have a complete meltdown or win a Super Bowl. Yet expect I fully us to make the Wild Card round and bow out in the 2nd round. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Can we please just get a comp ST's coach?

 

If we're gonna make a coaching change, this is the one that gets my vote.

 

15 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Again, he’s already being mentioned as a candidate in Carolina. Whether he will be a good HC (or even a good interview) is totally different than will he get looks. He is definitely going to get looks. He may not get a job. If he does get a job he may not be any good. 

 

Mentioned, schmentioned.  I will say this: When Pettine was having some success as our DC and interviewed as HC of the Browns, I thought it was a "practice interview" and for the good of his career, he neither would nor should consider it.  Well, I was wrong on the first (he took it) and right on the second (it was a Bad Career Move).  I would see it as similar for Daboll.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

30 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

 

The Bills lose the next three I gotta think Daboll is history In Buffalo.

 

 

I think there is almost zero chance the Bills fire Daboll this offseason.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

42 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Horse hockey!

 

The Dallas game. Bills first series, run 8 yards, run up mid for 3 yards 1st down! Allen drops back to pass and was sacked -8 yards. next play, short pass complete 6 yards. Allen run up the middle for 9 yards, Punt!

 

Three runs a sack, one pass. 

 

Bills second series, Run, run, pass, run, incomplete pass, incomplete pass, penalty on Dallas, incomplete pass, pass, pass, Punt!

 

Three runs, six passes.

 

Bills third series, pass, run, run, pass, run, run, run, pass. 

 

Five runs, two passes. 

 

fourth series, Run, pass, pass, run, aborted snap looked like a QB sneak (run) pass.

 

Three runs, three passes. 

 

14 runs vs 12 passes in the first half. Pretty balanced in my view. 

 

I realize you and I have completely different views on Allen and I have accepted this. 

 

 

 

 

This is awesome. 

[warrior9]

I would love to get Joe Brady on our staff as a passing game coordinator or someone to assist Daboll. He's the LSU passing game coordinator and worked with Sean Peyton for years as well. 

[Kirby Jackson]

16 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

I would love to get Joe Brady on our staff as a passing game coordinator or someone to assist Daboll. He's the LSU passing game coordinator and worked with Sean Peyton for years as well. 

Joe Brady is a stud. Unfortunately, he isn’t going anywhere until he gets a HC job. LSU has already proven that they will pay for assistants. Dave Aranda is the highest paid assistant in the NCAA at $2.5M per year. That would make him one of the highest paid coordinators in the NFL. LSU LOVES Joe Brady and are going to open up their deep pockets. 

[warrior9]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

Joe Brady is a stud. Unfortunately, he isn’t going anywhere until he gets a HC job. LSU has already proven that they will pay for assistants. Dave Aranda is the highest paid assistant in the NCAA at $2.5M per year. That would make him one of the highest paid coordinators in the NFL. LSU LOVES Joe Brady and are going to open up their deep pockets. 

I know I know.... Maybe he gets an OC job in the NFL and jets. who knows... I'm not saying it's going to happen, I would just love it to happen. 

[Bronxbomber21]

14 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

Or how about Ken Dorsey being the play caller?  Daboll creates some nice plays, I suspect he has problems with when to call what plays at the right situation.  The offense would be set back if you blew up Daboll's play book, but I don't think he should be calling plays.

That two point conversation was a great call and at the right time so was the td pass for that matter

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

If we're gonna make a coaching change, this is the one that gets my vote.

 

 

Mentioned, schmentioned.  I will say this: When Pettine was having some success as our DC and interviewed as HC of the Browns, I thought it was a "practice interview" and for the good of his career, he neither would nor should consider it.  Well, I was wrong on the first (he took it) and right on the second (it was a Bad Career Move).  I would see it as similar for Daboll.

 

 

 

 

Ok I'll allow that Daboll definitely could get a year as Browns HC LOL...

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Again, he’s already being mentioned as a candidate in Carolina. Whether he will be a good HC (or even a good interview) is totally different than will he get looks. He is definitely going to get looks. He may not get a job. If he does get a job he may not be any good. 

 

 

Norv Turner, as OC,  has gotten as much out of KYLE Allen, in fewer games, as Daboll has gotten out of JA this year----while paired with a horrible (not top 3) Defense.

 

I don't see how  Carolina would seriously look at Daboll and say..."that's what we are missing on this coaching staff".  Certainly their new billionaire owner can't be thinking that.

[Happy]

16 minutes ago, Bronxbomber21 said:

That two point conversation was a great call and at the right time so was the td pass for that matter

 

How about the long balls on third and short?  The outside run on 1st and goal from inside the 1 yard line, rather than a QB sneak?  Daboll tries to outsmart everyone rather than think practically most times.

3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

It shouldn’t be perplexing though if you take a step back. It isn’t about his X’s and O’s its about his ability to develop a young QB. The Bucs fired their HC a few years back to protect their OC (Dirk Koetter) because of his relationship with Jameis. If you are a bad team (let’s use Washington) and have a young QB you’d think Daboll would be a guy that could elevate him. You just watched him take a SUPER raw prospect and turn him into a good NFL QB quickly. You’d look at Daboll and think, “if he can do that with Allen why not Haskins (or Daniel Jones or whomever)?” 
 

This doesn’t even take into account Daboll’s background with Saban and BB. Both of those guys think incredibly highly of him. That matters in NFL circles.

 

I’m not saying that Daboll will definitely get a job. I’m just saying it should surprise no one that teams are interested.

 

I understand your point, it’s just flawed logic (not on your part) within NFL circles.  I suspect Daboll would be fired within three years if he got a HC job.

[Big Turk]

16 hours ago, Binghamton Beast said:

Looking at our coaching staff I really only see one solid possibility of losing a coach, and that being Ken Dorsey. With Allen’s improvement is it possible someone will offer Dorsey an OC spot to work with that teams QB and also steer their offense? Is Dorsey ready to be an OC?

 

Possible that Allen is more comfortable with Dorsey than Daboll and the Bills send Daboll packing and offer Dorsey the OC?

 

Anyone else see any possibilities? Though our defense is top notch I don’t see anyone getting poached there,

 

They can't just "hire" him.  Bills would have to allow him to leave.  Teams can only hire away coaches without permission for head coaching jobs.

[ogham26]

14 hours ago, bigK14094 said:

Daboll and Fraser stay.  Dorsey, who knows, but I am guessing yes as well.  the special teams guy has not worked out imho.  Lets try Tasker......in that role. 

 listen to tasker talk on OBL for more than 30 seconds and see if you still want him coaching this team..if you find yourself still saying yes then im very glad you have no control over anything ?

[Nihilarian]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I really can’t figure out why anyone is denying the role that Daboll has had on Allen’s development? It’s really crazy to me that people don’t think teams would be interested in a guy, that worked under Saban and Belichick, and can develop young QBs. Daboll has shown that he can do the most important thing for a bad team (develop a young QB). He worked under, inarguably, the two greatest coaches of this generation. This really is shocking to me. It’s OBVIOUS why teams are looking at him. 

First off, lets look at all the failed NFL head coaches that have come from the BB tree. 

 

Jim Bates was his D line coach, Al Groh was his LBer coach. Jim Schwartz was a scout. Nick Saban was his DC. Rod Dowhower was his QB coach. Rick Venturi  was his DC, all in at some point in Cleveland from 1991-1995.

 

Eric Mangini, DBs coach, Rob Ryan was his LBers coach, Daboll was a defensive assistant all in 2000. Charlie Weis, Romeo, Crennel. Brian Flores. Matt Patricia all at some point in New England. 

 

So, just because you work for the guy doesn't mean you'll have success in the NFL as a HC

 

Second, lets not forget who Brian Daboll started in front of Josh Allen in 2018 and he must have thought Nathan Peterman would be good enough to remain as the starter for awhile as Allen was supposed to sit, learn. This was a grade A+ moronic move. Allen was then forced to start on a bad team behind a bad line with little talent around him. 

 

Its crystal clear to me that while Brian Daboll does call some good games. Although, at times he makes some very questionable calls. Like all the deep passing calls against Baltimore when Allen has one of the worst deep passing completion percentages in the league this season.

 

Daboll's failure to setup a winning game plan against the Ravens even given extra time. The failure to make adjustments for the offensive line to help stop the blitzes. The failure to find a way to get the run game working early to take pressure off his young, inexperienced QB.

 

Failure to get the short passing game working. That last part said, Cole Beasley is a remarkable talent much like Wes Welker, Danny Amendola, Julian Edleman. A first down machine and a player who usually finds a way to get open early. He should have been targeted early and often against the Ravens.

 

Instead, incomplete deep to John Brown. Incomplete Deep to Robert Foster.  Incomplete short to McKenzie. Incomplete deep Dawson Knox. Incomplete deep John Brown. Finally, incomplete short Cole Beasley in the fourth series.

 

Another finally moment, Daboll, realizing Allen was shaken and having great difficulty in this game. He ran Singletary six straight times for two first downs...then went back to the pass. 

 

Had Daboll worked the short pass game with runs by Singletary early and often. Its my take that the Ravens game would have gone in an entirely different way with a win as with the Dallas game. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

29 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Its crystal clear to me that while Brian Daboll does call some good games. Although, at times he makes some very questionable calls. Like all the deep passing calls against Baltimore when Allen has one of the worst deep passing completion percentages in the league this season.

 

Daboll's failure to setup a winning game plan against the Ravens even given extra time. The failure to make adjustments for the offensive line to help stop the blitzes. The failure to find a way to get the run game working early to take pressure off his young, inexperienced QB.

 

Failure to get the short passing game working. That last part said, Cole Beasley is a remarkable talent much like Wes Welker, Danny Amendola, Julian Edleman. A first down machine and a player who usually finds a way to get open early. He should have been targeted early and often against the Ravens.

 

Instead, incomplete deep to John Brown. Incomplete Deep to Robert Foster.  Incomplete short to McKenzie. Incomplete deep Dawson Knox. Incomplete deep John Brown. Finally, incomplete short Cole Beasley in the fourth series.

 

Another finally moment, Daboll, realizing Allen was shaken and having great difficulty in this game. He ran Singletary six straight times for two first downs...then went back to the pass. 

 

Had Daboll worked the short pass game with runs by Singletary early and often. Its my take that the Ravens game would have gone in an entirely different way with a win as with the Dallas game. 

 

I'd just like to point out it is a fact that there were guys open, usually near the LOS but sometimes short, over the middle, early in the Ravens game.  I haven't gotten all the way through the game yet but it wouldn't surprise me a bit if there were more of the same, later.   The plays were there for the taking.

 

What none of us know how the reads or the strategy of the game plan was set up - for example, was there an overarching instruction to try to push the ball down the field with chunk plays if they were there (and they were) vs. taking the dink-n-dunk?  Allen said in his presser that he should have gone for the easier throws and taken some of the shorter stuff in the 1Q, but that leaves the question open as to why he didn't.  Neither Allen nor Daboll is going to throw each other under the bus.  McDermott has said "it starts with me", so it could have even been a strategic directive from the HC. 

 

It's possible it's a decision Allen made to go for the deep throws instead of the easy throws, and it's not on Daboll at all.

 

Hindsight is 20/20, but part of the issue seems to be asking players to execute assignments that abstractly make the most sense, and that they should be able to execute, but that those particular players on that particular day can not, in fact, execute.  Allen should be able to complete those throws to his WR in the abstract, and in the abstract they are the best way to defeat Cover 0, but I think it's telling that the Ravens only tried one pass beyond 15 yards and two passes beyond 20 yards (and Jackson completed none of them).  And of course, there are other ways to back the blitz off - quick, short completions that move the chains via YAC are another classic blitz beater.  In theory, Knox at 6'4" 257 should be able to block Matt Judon at 6'3 263 but in fact, he couldn't.

 

On adjustments, I got nothin'.  I don't know why it took until the 2nd half to adjust the blocking.  Slow adjustments for stuff that's clearly not working is a repeated beef of mine.

 

 

[Kirby Jackson]

4 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Norv Turner, as OC,  has gotten as much out of KYLE Allen, in fewer games, as Daboll has gotten out of JA this year----while paired with a horrible (not top 3) Defense.

 

I don't see how  Carolina would seriously look at Daboll and say..."that's what we are missing on this coaching staff".  Certainly their new billionaire owner can't be thinking that.

That’s certainly your opinion on it. However, those that cover the Carolina Panthers for a living are hearing that he’s a candidate. It’s posted earlier in the thread. I will trust the opinion of the Charlotte sports talk host over Bills message board poster.

[Kirby Jackson]

5 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

First off, lets look at all the failed NFL head coaches that have come from the BB tree. 

 

Jim Bates was his D line coach, Al Groh was his LBer coach. Jim Schwartz was a scout. Nick Saban was his DC. Rod Dowhower was his QB coach. Rick Venturi  was his DC, all in at some point in Cleveland from 1991-1995.

 

Eric Mangini, DBs coach, Rob Ryan was his LBers coach, Daboll was a defensive assistant all in 2000. Charlie Weis, Romeo, Crennel. Brian Flores. Matt Patricia all at some point in New England. 

 

So, just because you work for the guy doesn't mean you'll have success in the NFL as a HC

 

Second, lets not forget who Brian Daboll started in front of Josh Allen in 2018 and he must have thought Nathan Peterman would be good enough to remain as the starter for awhile as Allen was supposed to sit, learn. This was a grade A+ moronic move. Allen was then forced to start on a bad team behind a bad line with little talent around him. 

 

Its crystal clear to me that while Brian Daboll does call some good games. Although, at times he makes some very questionable calls. Like all the deep passing calls against Baltimore when Allen has one of the worst deep passing completion percentages in the league this season.

 

Daboll's failure to setup a winning game plan against the Ravens even given extra time. The failure to make adjustments for the offensive line to help stop the blitzes. The failure to find a way to get the run game working early to take pressure off his young, inexperienced QB.

 

Failure to get the short passing game working. That last part said, Cole Beasley is a remarkable talent much like Wes Welker, Danny Amendola, Julian Edleman. A first down machine and a player who usually finds a way to get open early. He should have been targeted early and often against the Ravens.

 

Instead, incomplete deep to John Brown. Incomplete Deep to Robert Foster.  Incomplete short to McKenzie. Incomplete deep Dawson Knox. Incomplete deep John Brown. Finally, incomplete short Cole Beasley in the fourth series.

 

Another finally moment, Daboll, realizing Allen was shaken and having great difficulty in this game. He ran Singletary six straight times for two first downs...then went back to the pass. 

 

Had Daboll worked the short pass game with runs by Singletary early and often. Its my take that the Ravens game would have gone in an entirely different way with a win as with the Dallas game. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What you aren’t seeing is that his X’s and O’s are a minor part of the equation to teams. Someone else will be calling the plays if he is an HC. They are saying, “if we are going to invest in our future franchise QB we want a guy that can develop him.” People will ABSOLUTELY look at that as a positive for Daboll. It’s the same reason Frank Reich got a HC job. It’s the same reason Zac Taylor got a job. It’s the same reason Kliff Kingsbury got a job. It’s the same reason Sean McVay got a job. It’s the same reason Matt Nagy got a job. It’s the same reason that Pat Shurmur got a job. Every single one of those guys got more out of the QB than people thought that they would. 

Edited December 11, 2019 by Kirby Jackson

[TigerJ]

I don't think I would change anything.  I recognize things are not perfect, but I think a lot of what is wrong will resolve itself over time with Josh Allen's continued development.  There are a number of times where Daboll made the right call for a situation and Josh, because of youthful exuberance or nerves or whatever did not execute it the way a seasoned veteran might have.  Maybe Daboll, realizing Josh's youth could have called something different, but maybe this is what Josh has to go through to get better.  If you never take the training wheels off, your 5 year old is never going to learn to ride a bike.