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tannins

Why wasn't Duke Williams active?

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14 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

Duke is literally the same size as foster just 20 pounds heavier. 
I have mentioned before people keep saying Kroft has done nothing. Well of course not he had one target in the raven game and played like 20 snaps. Knox is the pass catching TE as far as the playbook goes. He’s the only one schemed in the playbook for passing routes. Kroft can’t do anything if they don’t throw him the ball. You know what he can do? Run out 5-8 yards and catch passes all day long if they actually throw it. He can also body a defender in the end zone if they throw it. 
If they had any interest in upgrading the passing game via tight end they have 2 options they don’t even try to use. Sweeney showed a little flash for making catches and Kroft can. They just don’t try. Or Allen doesn’t look. I keep defending Kroft and I’m not even a big fan of his, I just can’t believe he’s become a whipping boy around here who “does nothing” when they don’t even throw him the ball. If you are looking for production from tight ends and what Knox gives isn’t enough look not further then Daboll and Allen. Guys are missed open short all the time. Allen is fixated on 15-30 yard completions a lot. Singletary for example could catch passes all day from the backfield he’s open a ton and Allen never even considers looking that way unless it’s a designed play. Cheer for duke as we all should, but stop hating on Kroft over make believe “does nothing”

 

 

You would absolutely have to be a HUGE fan Kroft's to claim he can do the things you see bolded above.

 

He has caught 8 passes in 2 years.  You would have to pour over his only productive season out of five--2 years ago to even claim that he can "catch 5-8 yard passes all day long" or "can body a defender in the end zone of they throw it" (a guy who has 8 career TDs).

 

Is that how you came to your conclusion?  You went over his game film form 2 years ago?  Help us out here.

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2 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

 

Here is what I said:

You no comprende potentially?

 

Gore/Yeldon being our only RB options went a long way to costing us the NE game. Chew on that one for a while.

 

You are being super condescending as if you have just dropped this knowledge bomb that makes your original claim abundantly obvious.  Not only have you not done that, your claim is laughably untrue. Not having an extra 4th string RB did not cost us the Pats game. Nor did not playing a street free agent WR.  I think suggesting that to any serious person/coach/analysts would get you laughed out of the room. 

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3 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

You are being super condescending as if you have just dropped this knowledge bomb that makes your original claim abundantly obvious.  Not only have you not done that, your claim is laughably untrue. Not having an extra 4th string RB did not cost us the Pats game. Nor did not playing a street free agent WR.  I think suggesting that to any serious person/coach/analysts would get you laughed out of the room. 

Read your first response to me and tell me who is being condescending. 

 

The extra RB I'm referring to is LeSean McCoy.  Maybe you've heard of him?  He was cut so that Yeldon could be retained.   Williams does indeed possess traits otherwise missing in our WRs.  

 

You think McDermott can do no wrong. I get that, you're a fanboi. There, now I'm being condescending.

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1 minute ago, Cripple Creek said:

Read your first response to me and tell me who is being condescending. 

 

The extra RB I'm referring to is LeSean McCoy.  Maybe you've heard of him?  He was cut so that Yeldon could be retained.   Williams does indeed possess traits otherwise missing in our WRs.  

 

You think McDermott can do no wrong. I get that, you're a fanboi. There, now I'm being condescending.

 

LeSean wasn't let go to make room for Yeldon. He was cut because he is a feature back and we wanted to give the reps to Singletary.  Coaching is about managing personalities. You take a guy like McCoy and give him 5 carries a game and you are creating a toxic influence in the locker room. 

 

Williams is big, that is true, but nothing about his performance is game changing. 

 

McDermott has done lots wrong. But to say that he is "intractable," without an ounce of evidence (and I am not exaggerating when I say no evidence), and say that it has cost us at least two games, is nothing short of belligerently ignorant. 

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31 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

You would absolutely have to be a HUGE fan Kroft's to claim he can do the things you see bolded above.

 

He has caught 8 passes in 2 years.  You would have to pour over his only productive season out of five--2 years ago to even claim that he can "catch 5-8 yard passes all day long" or "can body a defender in the end zone of they throw it" (a guy who has 8 career TDs).

 

Is that how you came to your conclusion?  You went over his game film form 2 years ago?  Help us out here.

Guy caught 60 passes his one season in Cinci where he was used due to their injuries. Can’t dog him out that he had to play behind Eifert and Uzomah or however it’s spelled. 
60. Our wide receivers barely catch 60 balls in a season. 

Sooooooooo the point I was making was people saying Kroft has done nothing here in buffalo, yet nobody says why? Is he too slow after the injuries and can’t get open? Is he not running routes? I’m not a huge fan of his, I’m just not going to jump on the bandwagon of “he’s done nothing” with zero evidence of why he’s done nothing. One poster says something and it becomes gospel around here. One guy becomes a whipping boy and has to be ran out of town. That is just ignorant of people on here. People blame him as if it’s his fault they don’t throw, or that his contract was too big when he has a season under his belt with more production than we’ve seen from a tight end in a very long time. Please if you want to bash the guy give some examples of him not being able to beat coverage or catch a pass? People are seriously suggesting a 220 pound receiver with like 6 career catches play tight end. I appreciate your sarcasm of my reviewing of game film lol but no I just happened to pick him up on my fantasy team that year and watched him play occasionally on the Sunday ticket. Crazy to think Andy Dalton could check down to Kroft for easy safe short completions but here he can’t even get open at all. I don’t do the film reviews of our games but I’d love for one of the better educated guys on here who do the reviews to see if Kroft is never open, or never running routes. If I was to be a betting man I would wager on his routes Allen isn’t looking his direction ever. 

Edited by Rc2catch

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On 12/8/2019 at 7:12 PM, tannins said:

Any mentions in media or by the coaching staff why Duke Williams isn’t on the 53 msn roster? 

This is the million dollar question. I'm don't know why John Murphy think you have to sit a different WR in order for Duke to be active. I say sit Lee Smith/Tyler Kroft. Both seem to serve same purpose except for the penalties. 

On 12/8/2019 at 9:21 PM, JR in Pittsburgh said:

I have a feeling that after today, we will see Duke activated next week. Foster hasn’t done enough as a receiver, and isn’t worth much in the red zone.

Why do Foster have to sit? Deactivate Lee Smith

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2 minutes ago, the skycap said:

This is the million dollar question. I'm don't know why John Murphy think you have to sit a different WR in order for Duke to be active. I say sit Lee Smith/Tyler Kroft. Both seem to serve same purpose except for the penalties. 

It’s not a bad point. If lee smith is only going to get 3 snaps why is he active? I know you want depth in case of an injury but you should be able to game plan around that. 

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36 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

LeSean wasn't let go to make room for Yeldon. He was cut because he is a feature back and we wanted to give the reps to Singletary.  Coaching is about managing personalities. You take a guy like McCoy and give him 5 carries a game and you are creating a toxic influence in the locker room. 

 

Williams is big, that is true, but nothing about his performance is game changing. 

 

McDermott has done lots wrong. But to say that he is "intractable," without an ounce of evidence (and I am not exaggerating when I say no evidence), and say that it has cost us at least two games, is nothing short of belligerently ignorant. 

So, you're saying McCoy is toxic in KC?  It was a mistake, plain and simple.

 

 

Back to the topic at hand.  Williams can contribute in ways that our other receivers cannot.

 

What contributions were made by DiMarco to the offensive effort on Sunday?

What contributions were made by Smith to the offensive effort on Sunday?

 

Pick one of those two unnecessary pieces and sit them; activate Williams.  Does it make a difference? Nobody knows, that chance is gone.  Could it have made a difference? Potentially, yes.

 

If you cannot agree with this then we don't really have anything to discuss.

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6 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

So, you're saying McCoy is toxic in KC?  It was a mistake, plain and simple.

 

 

Back to the topic at hand.  Williams can contribute in ways that our other receivers cannot.

 

What contributions were made by DiMarco to the offensive effort on Sunday?

What contributions were made by Smith to the offensive effort on Sunday?

 

Pick one of those two unnecessary pieces and sit them; activate Williams.  Does it make a difference? Nobody knows, that chance is gone.  Could it have made a difference? Potentially, yes.

 

If you cannot agree with this then we don't really have anything to discuss.

 

On McCoy: 

 

(1) McCoy is the lead back

 

(2) Its a different situation. McCoy lost snaps after a trade; it is entirely different if you are demoted within the building

 

(3) McDermott is in the locker room, you are not. 

 

(4) You are literally the first person I have heard suggest it was a mistake. This is a wild take. 

 

(5) McCoy is not a change of pace back. He replicates Singletary. Gore is a bruiser. 

 

On Williams:

 

(1) He doesn't get seperation, and with Josh being as cautious as he has been there is zero reason to think that he will throw to the guy with a DB draped over him. 

 

(2) DiMarco is the special teams captain. Williams doesn't play special teams. 

 

(3) All of that aside, would have made a difference? Maybe. There isn't any evidence to suggest it would, but sure, anything is possible.  Point is: at the end of the day suggesting McDermotts handling of the roster cost this team two games is a silly comment, which I, for the life of me, cannot understand why or how you are still defending. 

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5 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

On McCoy: 

 

(1) McCoy is the lead back

 

(2) Its a different situation. McCoy lost snaps after a trade; it is entirely different if you are demoted within the building

 

(3) McDermott is in the locker room, you are not. 

 

(4) You are literally the first person I have heard suggest it was a mistake. This is a wild take. 

 

(5) McCoy is not a change of pace back. He replicates Singletary. Gore is a bruiser. 

 

On Williams:

 

(1) He doesn't get seperation, and with Josh being as cautious as he has been there is zero reason to think that he will throw to the guy with a DB draped over him. 

 

(2) DiMarco is the special teams captain. Williams doesn't play special teams. 

 

(3) All of that aside, would have made a difference? Maybe. There isn't any evidence to suggest it would, but sure, anything is possible.  Point is: at the end of the day suggesting McDermotts handling of the roster cost this team two games is a silly comment, which I, for the life of me, cannot understand why or how you are still defending. 

DiMarco is the special teams Capt. That explains why it sucks so much.

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7 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

On McCoy: 

 

(1) McCoy is the lead back

 

(2) Its a different situation. McCoy lost snaps after a trade; it is entirely different if you are demoted within the building

 

(3) McDermott is in the locker room, you are not. 

 

(4) You are literally the first person I have heard suggest it was a mistake. This is a wild take. 

 

(5) McCoy is not a change of pace back. He replicates Singletary. Gore is a bruiser. 

 

On Williams:

 

(1) He doesn't get seperation, and with Josh being as cautious as he has been there is zero reason to think that he will throw to the guy with a DB draped over him. 

 

(2) DiMarco is the special teams captain. Williams doesn't play special teams. 

 

(3) All of that aside, would have made a difference? Maybe. There isn't any evidence to suggest it would, but sure, anything is possible.  Point is: at the end of the day suggesting McDermotts handling of the roster cost this team two games is a silly comment, which I, for the life of me, cannot understand why or how you are still defending. 

This is my last response to you and I'm only making it because you are having such trouble here.

 

In both of those games one play makes a difference.

 

One play.

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Just now, Cripple Creek said:

This is my last response to you and I'm only making it because you are having such trouble here.

 

In both of those games one play makes a difference.

 

One play.

 

This is so crazy!!!! How do people like you actually exist???? I could be the guy on the roster, I could make that play! Literally anything can happen. To extrapolate as far as you do is crazy town. 

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1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:


But how come no one edited the tweet posts to make sure everyone knows it’s not Duke the WR though?

Good question. Yea, OP, WHY NOT!? Just kidding. I think most people got it. It went way over my head, though. I did think it was strange that Duke(WR) would make those comments. Glad it's cleared up.

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1 hour ago, SJDK said:

You forgot the game winning TD thing that happened against Tennessee. I think McKenzie has had his chance. I think Foster has had his chance. Do you agree with that? Are you happy with the production we get from those two? I’m not. Again, I’m sure you notice that we are loaded with little guys and fast guys. Those players aren’t producing. Let’s mix in Duke and see if he can catch us another game winning touchdown. Seems logical and rational to say it’s time we get him in there again. Please don’t try to tell me he doesn’t get open, neither does Foster and neither does McKenzie consistently.

They have all had there chances. The coaches seem to think Duke offers less out there overall. I tend to agree. If Duke could play special teams or beat someone off the LOS, he would have been in a ton more. I just don't think the coaches want to make special teams any worse to bring in Duke. He just doesn't bring enough to the table yet. I do know Foster definitely gets open out there. I honestly didn't see that in Duke. 

2 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

It’s a red herring, look at his TD catch, in limited space he gets separation and scores, try paying attention.  

 I did watch the Tennessee game and the TD catch. I jumped up and yelled "DUKE!!" like everyone else. If he get's the call for the Pittsburgh game, I hope he kicks ass. I really do. I've said this a few times throughout various threads. Bring him in, the right way. I don't want to make are ST's any worse, just to bring in Duke. The only guy I might consider bringing him in for is Foster. But even then, Foster and Josh hit it off pretty well at the end of last year and he is getting open. It seems Duke isn't showing enough in practice or when he had his chance, that 1 TD aside. JMO, but I think he struggles beating CB's off the LOS. He's used to the running start in the CFL. Please don't bring up college. In college, 1/2 the time you're up against an 18 or 19 year old kid. Now he's got to beat professional CB's who are not wearing the "no contact" jersey in practice and he's having issues with that. I can't imaging the staff would prefer a contested pass vs. one to an open WR. The goal is still to get open. He's working on it in practice, but it seems coaches don't think he's progressed enough. As to the part in bold, I am.

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3 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

Guy caught 60 passes his one season in Cinci where he was used due to their injuries. Can’t dog him out that he had to play behind Eifert and Uzomah or however it’s spelled. 
60. Our wide receivers barely catch 60 balls in a season. 

Sooooooooo the point I was making was people saying Kroft has done nothing here in buffalo, yet nobody says why? Is he too slow after the injuries and can’t get open? Is he not running routes? I’m not a huge fan of his, I’m just not going to jump on the bandwagon of “he’s done nothing” with zero evidence of why he’s done nothing. One poster says something and it becomes gospel around here. One guy becomes a whipping boy and has to be ran out of town. That is just ignorant of people on here. People blame him as if it’s his fault they don’t throw, or that his contract was too big when he has a season under his belt with more production than we’ve seen from a tight end in a very long time. Please if you want to bash the guy give some examples of him not being able to beat coverage or catch a pass? People are seriously suggesting a 220 pound receiver with like 6 career catches play tight end. I appreciate your sarcasm of my reviewing of game film lol but no I just happened to pick him up on my fantasy team that year and watched him play occasionally on the Sunday ticket. Crazy to think Andy Dalton could check down to Kroft for easy safe short completions but here he can’t even get open at all. I don’t do the film reviews of our games but I’d love for one of the better educated guys on here who do the reviews to see if Kroft is never open, or never running routes. If I was to be a betting man I would wager on his routes Allen isn’t looking his direction ever. 


So many words to say you ARE. basing this on a si hike season in 5.  Flash in the pans are just that 

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On 12/8/2019 at 5:14 PM, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Duke Williams and Yeldon should both be active. But instead we are dressing guys like Senorise Perry that you couldn’t even find on the telecast. Then you have Frank Gore who is taking touches away from Singletary and looks like he’s running with an air conditioner tied to his cleats. This team is desperate for play makers and we are sitting guys that are capable of making big plays on offense. Very frustrating. 

Agree completely.  None of us know if Williams would make a difference but all of us know Gore, Perry, and McKenzie are not making a difference. 

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14 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:


So many words to say you ARE. basing this on a si hike season in 5.  Flash in the pans are just that 

Ok whatever. You can’t even type a coherent sentence I don’t know why I would expect you  to understand anything. Hold your ground hater, and jump on the bandwagon of hating a bills player. And a player you don’t even have a reason to hate on. 😜

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Duke got his chance and as far as I could tell he was doing everything he was asked to do and catching pretty much everything thrown to him. It wasn’t reported but I believe he had a shoulder injury in the Miami game. There has to be more to the story than we know. From what I have seen he is the only receiver on the team that will go up and fight for a ball but I’m just casual fan so what do I know?

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3 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

This is so crazy!!!! How do people like you actually exist???? I could be the guy on the roster, I could make that play! Literally anything can happen. To extrapolate as far as you do is crazy town. 

Don't demean. It doesn't make your argument stronger. Agree to disagree.

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1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Agree completely.  None of us know if Williams would make a difference but all of us know Gore, Perry, and McKenzie are not making a difference. 

McKenzie is. I never said I want him out. He’s important 

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Just now, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

McKenzie is. I never said I want him out. He’s important 

Not really but I get your point. 

I'd would sit Dimarco, Gore, and McKenzie, in favor Williams, Yeldon, and Taylor. Perry would be the third RB. I like having an additional body on the DL to go up against very good Steelers o-line. Lee Smith can play third TE or FB. 

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Are the coaches clueless or is Duke not that good?

 

Why is everyone so confident in Duke Williams? 

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3 hours ago, Dopey said:

They have all had there chances. The coaches seem to think Duke offers less out there overall. I tend to agree. If Duke could play special teams or beat someone off the LOS, he would have been in a ton more. I just don't think the coaches want to make special teams any worse to bring in Duke. He just doesn't bring enough to the table yet. I do know Foster definitely gets open out there. I honestly didn't see that in Duke. 

 I did watch the Tennessee game and the TD catch. I jumped up and yelled "DUKE!!" like everyone else. If he get's the call for the Pittsburgh game, I hope he kicks ass. I really do. I've said this a few times throughout various threads. Bring him in, the right way. I don't want to make are ST's any worse, just to bring in Duke. The only guy I might consider bringing him in for is Foster. But even then, Foster and Josh hit it off pretty well at the end of last year and he is getting open. It seems Duke isn't showing enough in practice or when he had his chance, that 1 TD aside. JMO, but I think he struggles beating CB's off the LOS. He's used to the running start in the CFL. Please don't bring up college. In college, 1/2 the time you're up against an 18 or 19 year old kid. Now he's got to beat professional CB's who are not wearing the "no contact" jersey in practice and he's having issues with that. I can't imaging the staff would prefer a contested pass vs. one to an open WR. The goal is still to get open. He's working on it in practice, but it seems coaches don't think he's progressed enough. As to the part in bold, I am.

We all have our thoughts on Duke, and I understand that, I do think that as good as SM has been for the Bills, he does have a history of not using some players he should and using players he should not, many many fans see this, you may as well, I think in this specific case SM is being overly ridged in his own process and falling into the above stated. It is hard to see a guy who has shown himself to be productive not be used. 

 

Go Bills!!!

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2 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Agree completely.  None of us know if Williams would make a difference but all of us know Gore, Perry, and McKenzie are not making a difference. 

Mckenzie has certainly made a difference 

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