How about MVP Lamar Jackson today?

[atlbillsfan1975]

9 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

The three  best "defensive coaches with the players"  have lost all 3 games to the Ravens, who have average 27 ppg against them.

 

Vick's "ceiling" was that he was a terrible passer and couldn't hit the water from a boat--not hard to scheme against that.

 

  Jackson has completed 66% of his passes this year.

 

 

Maybe Vick never got the right coaching till he got to Andy Reid.  Think of what he could of been had he played for Reid from the beginning.

 

Look I have nothing against Jackson. I watched that game yesterday and the reason he got all three TD completions was due to his running. Jackson will lose a step and teams won’t have to focus on that as much in a few years. Until then he can possibly win a SB. The Ravens have a great HC and great OC and DC. 

[LJs Bodyguard]

26 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Include yourself in that group.

 

You ignored this one:

 

Ravens Defense: 5th/6th in points and yards allowed

 

Seahawks Defense:  22nd/27th. 

 

There's a full TD difference to overcome between Wilson's team and Jackson.

 

It's closer than you think

Huh??? We're talking individual stats here....

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Maybe Vick never got the right coaching till he got to Andy Reid.  Think of what he could of been had he played for Reid from the beginning.

 

Look I have nothing against Jackson. I watched that game yesterday and the reason he got all three TD completions was due to his running. Jackson will lose a step and teams won’t have to focus on that as much in a few years. Until then he can possibly win a SB. The Ravens have a great HC and great OC and DC. 

 

Vick had 3 Pro Bowl years in Atlanta and took them to the playoffs twice (once the NFCC game).  He had 1 Pro Bowl year with Reid, 1 playoff game and then went into steady decline in the next 2 years--then free fall.

 

Andy Reid didn't create a new Vick...

 

As for Jackson, he's still learning the game.  Everyone here keeps saying that teams will "figure him out", but none has yet--he's beaten the top 3.  If his very accurate, very productive current passing game becomes broader with experience, he will become even more difficult to defend.

 

 

4 minutes ago, LJs Bodyguard said:

Huh??? We're talking individual stats here....

 

 

Look up, did something just fly over your head?

[DasNootz]

He's very good at running the option and releasing the ball quickly on the short stuff.  I haven't looked at his receivers' YAC, but I'd bet it's among the highest in the league.  His speed and running threat opens up so much.  The blueprint was already out on how to stop him - but that's much easier said than done.  Keep him in the pocket passing and defend sideline to sideline.  I actually thought the Bills did a very good job with containment. 

[atlbillsfan1975]

47 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Vick had 3 Pro Bowl years in Atlanta and took them to the playoffs twice (once the NFCC game).  He had 1 Pro Bowl year with Reid, 1 playoff game and then went into steady decline in the next 2 years--then free fall.

 

Andy Reid didn't create a new Vick...

 

As for Jackson, he's still learning the game.  Everyone here keeps saying that teams will "figure him out", but none has yet--he's beaten the top 3.  If his very accurate, very productive current passing game becomes broader with experience, he will become even more difficult to defend.

 

 

 

 

Look up, did something just fly over your head?

In Atlanta Vick won like Lamar is. Kept defenses off balance because they had to respect his speed as a runner. I know I watched the team. 
Reid helped turn him into more of a passer first that could run, much like Mahomes. i believe there is a difference. 
And as teams like the Bills put more game film out there with things that work in slowing him down, Roman and Lamar will need to adjust. Let’s see if they can.

Edited December 9, 2019 by atlbillsfan1975

[Big Gun]

56 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

The three  best "defensive coaches with the players"  have lost all 3 games to the Ravens, who have average 27 ppg against them.

 

Vick's "ceiling" was that he was a terrible passer and couldn't hit the water from a boat--not hard to scheme against that.

 

  Jackson has completed 66% of his passes this year.

 

 

I would hope a NFL starting QB could complete 5-10 yard passes to TE over the middle all day every game at a 70% percent clip. I really think any QB in the league could consistently do that at a very high completion %, oh by the way his TE seem to catch everything that is near them which can't be said for our TE.

Edited December 9, 2019 by pop gun

[dave mcbride]

18 hours ago, ToGoGo said:

 

People keep saying that to me and it's false. It's the 4th game I've seen, and I don't normally watch 4 games of the Ravens in a typical regular season. 

 

I stick by it, he's a great read-option QB. He will flame out as teams learn to counteract their deception behind the line. 

You seem awfully sure of yourself about this. I recommend letting his career play out. No one here can predict the future.

[ngbills]

Bills played Jackson great. Unfortunately he did just enough to get the win. Saw the open WR on the long play and delivered the ball. On his little trick play that is the difference between a TD and FG on that drive. So we shut him down but just not enough. 

 

I am curious if the people here saying Jackson sucked are the same that make excuses for our offense every week. You know the we are 9-3 or now 9-4 that is all that matters. Allen plays in the clutch when is needed so who cares what else he does. Yards mean nothing. Blah Blah Blah. 

[CaptnCoke11]

18 hours ago, ToGoGo said:

We made him look pretty ordinary.

 

Someone in the 2nd half thread said he is a great read-option QB, nothing more, and I agree. He looked lost when Andrews went out of the game, and kept throwing to the backup TE who fortunately for them is a good football player. 

 

Hopefully, the book on him is now out. Don't fall for the ball trickery, set the edge, don't overpursue, and eliminate the TE's. Force him to throw long into tight coverage. 

You must only watch Bills games.. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 hours ago, Jrb1979 said:

What's so shameful? We all should be happy with 9-4? Allen and the offense didn't have a good game. Its like you can't criticize the Bills and you have to be a big Homer like Murph is. 

 

How bout them sabres? Lol

 

Pound sand, Nancy, no time for your negative waves

[Jrb1979]

5 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

How bout them sabres? Lol

 

Pound sand, Nancy, no time for your negative waves

Them Sabres won again last night and are in a playoff spot. 

 

The Bills defense has been good but Allen wasn't good yesterday. Why can't you criticize his game? In case you didn't notice Allen didn't have a very good game. You keep looking through your rose colored glasses and keep saying 9-4 9-4 9-4. 

[timekills17]

18 hours ago, Maine-iac said:

To expound on what you've already said, this is the offense that took Kaepernick to the SB, Tyrod Taylor to the Pro Bowl 2 years in a row and now is setting all kinds of rushing and scoring records in Baltimore.  It is most definitely sustainable.

 

It's also the offense that saw the 49er's and Kaepernick look bad enough that they replaced him at QB and eventually in the NFL, and had Taylor drop 10 point in QBR and throw for 17 TDs in his second year. Athough...arguably due to Roman being fired, I suppose

 

Greg Roman should never have been fired for a team whose defense played terribly. But I'm not certain there's enough history to say that Roman's scheme isn't going to be figured out. So far, every offense gets figured out (see: Miami WIld Cat to Bills K-Gun to Rams 2018 season.) The question is whether the players and coaches are good enough to come up with another good offensive scheme.

 

Lamar is crazy athletic. Enough so that as long as he has a decent O-line, I have a feeling he'll do pretty well regardless of whether this scheme gets "figured out."

But I don't believe for a second that this scheme is so impenetrable that it won't be.

 

Hell, right now I'd say the trick is take Mark Andrews out of the game. Preferably by coverage rather than injury like against the Bills, but minus a blown coverage against Hurst once Andrews left it was a different game.

[CEN-CAL17]

19 hours ago, Bangarang said:

The book on him is out? He threw 3 TDs and didn’t look nearly as rattled or erratic as Allen. So many horrible takes on Lamar. He’s having a great season.

Lamar was stopped all day.... Baltimore has great field position most the day, he completed a pass here and there. Take off the 60 yard TD he throws under 100 yds and rushes for 40. His first TD came from the 4 yd line that should have been backed up by 12 in the huddle. Then the 60 yd blown coverage by Poyer and the Snead TD where Edmunds was out of position and left his zone open. Lamar did enough to win, it wasn’t that impressive. Baltimore’s Defense and our lack of offense was the difference in the game. Lamar did nothing special that makes one say, “Lamar beat us, Lamar couldn’t be stopped, Lamar made plays left and right,” that didn’t happen. 

Edited December 9, 2019 by CEN-CAL17

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, DasNootz said:

He's very good at running the option and releasing the ball quickly on the short stuff.  I haven't looked at his receivers' YAC, but I'd bet it's among the highest in the league.  His speed and running threat opens up so much.  The blueprint was already out on how to stop him - but that's much easier said than done.  Keep him in the pocket passing and defend sideline to sideline.  I actually thought the Bills did a very good job with containment. 

 

Not even close.  It's not even in the top 20.  Maybe you were thinking of Mahomes?  Rodgers? Goff? Garroppolo?  Brady?  They are all in the top 5.   

 

1 hour ago, pop gun said:

I would hope a NFL starting QB could complete 5-10 yard passes to TE over the middle all day every game at a 70% percent clip. I really think any QB in the league could consistently do that at a very high completion %, oh by the way his TE seem to catch everything that is near them which can't be said for our TE.

 

His air yards per pass are more than Cousins, Rodgers, Brady, Wentz, Goff, Garroppolo, Mahomes, Brees...and Josh Allen.  So, he's not doing much different from most of the "true passers".    All of those behind him, as stated above, rely more on receivers' YAC to fill out their passing yards total.

 

1 hour ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

In Atlanta Vick won like Lamar is. Kept defenses off balance because they had to respect his speed as a runner. I know I watched the team. 
Reid helped turn him into more of a passer first that could run, much like Mahomes. i believe there is a difference. 
And as teams like the Bills put more game film out there with things that work in slowing him down, Roman and Lamar will need to adjust. Let’s see if they can.

 

Again, after one decent year, Vick in Philly steadily declined (under Reid).

 

Mahomes was a passer who could run before he met Reid.

[T master]

20 hours ago, ToGoGo said:

We made him look pretty ordinary.

 

Someone in the 2nd half thread said he is a great read-option QB, nothing more, and I agree. He looked lost when Andrews went out of the game, and kept throwing to the backup TE who fortunately for them is a good football player. 

 

Hopefully, the book on him is now out. Don't fall for the ball trickery, set the edge, don't overpursue, and eliminate the TE's. Force him to throw long into tight coverage. 

 

 

According to Murph last week before the game our guy Josh is a much better passer of the ball but if you can't read the field & make quick decisions it's all for nothing !!

 

There were times Josh stood for LONG periods of time & didn't know what to do i hope he uses this as a learning experience & can put this one behind him but he could have & should have been able to do much better than he did & it would have helped if Duke was on the field IMHO !! 

[Big Gun]

7 minutes ago, T master said:

 

 

According to Murph last week before the game our guy Josh is a much better passer of the ball but if you can't read the field & make quick decisions it's all for nothing !!

 

There were times Josh stood for LONG periods of time & didn't know what to do i hope he uses this as a learning experience & can put this one behind him but he could have & should have been able to do much better than he did & it would have helped if Duke was on the field IMHO !! 

Or he was waiting for his WR hour long route to develop! Naw, that couldn't have been an issue though, right!

 

It must be all Allens fault because he didn't know what to do, are you serious! Really!

[Cripple Creek]

6 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

No he is not.

Jackson’s OC is great at scheming for a running quarterback who struggles reading defenses and going through progressions.

Allen has Daboll. Brown called Daboll’s offense is most complex he has ever been apart of. 
From everything I know about the NFL and the game of football from watching it for 40 years and playing for a good bit, Jackson will need to be able to grow into a different style to have longevity. If he does not he is at his ceiling. It can happen, Mike Vick had some success later in his career with Andy Reid. Another great offensive mind. 

what is your agenda?   You think wins mask everything? Did you watch the game and saw Jackson’s TD passes? Teams are figuring him out. Lamar hasn’t shown he can throw to the outside to WR’s consistently. Good defensive coaches with the players will turn him into what we saw yesterday. 

My agenda?

 

You are making blanket statements and I’m the one with an agenda?  I saw a very poised QB who, for the sake of the league, I hope continues to develop. I also saw another QB, with less options, appear confused. I hope that he too, for the good of the Bills, continues to develop.

[atlbillsfan1975]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Not even close.  It's not even in the top 20.  Maybe you were thinking of Mahomes?  Rodgers? Goff? Garroppolo?  Brady?  They are all in the top 5.   

 

 

His air yards per pass are more than Cousins, Rodgers, Brady, Wentz, Goff, Garroppolo, Mahomes, Brees...and Josh Allen.  So, he's not doing much different from most of the "true passers".    All of those behind him, as stated above, rely more on receivers' YAC to fill out their passing yards total.

 

 

Again, after one decent year, Vick in Philly steadily declined (under Reid).

 

Mahomes was a passer who could run before he met Reid.

In college. In the Big 12 where nobody plays defense. 

[jrober38]

Jackson was very underwhelming.

 

That was mostly because our defense is phenomenal though. 

[BillsFan4]