Joe B. All-22 vs Cowboys: Ford may have sealed his fate as a Guard in 2020

[whatdrought]

45 minutes ago, Dkollidas said:

I think Spain has been solid, but I just have a feeling that with what’s out there this off-season, he’s going to get $7M-$9M on a 3-4 yr deal. I’m just not ready to do that for a guy who’s ok. 
Pay Dawkins, we can pay Morse, and if Feliciano keeps his play up next year, we can play him. 
 

Spain is a road grader, perfect for a run heavy scheme, but I feel his abilities aren’t very rare or hard to find. 

 

Long and a mid round draft pick along with a cheap UFA if they feel the necessity, should be able to figure that spot out. 

 

Honestly, offensive line play is bad all over the place. If we have something that works, I don’t see breaking it up. Especially since we have the money. 

[Mike in Horseheads]

On 12/3/2019 at 7:31 PM, vincec said:

I haven't broken down film or anything, but to the naked eye it certainly looks like he has struggled in 1v1 pass protection. However, I think it's crazy to say that he has "sealed his fate" to play guard. The guy is a rookie. I think he deserves a chance to work on his game a little- at least one offseason, at minimum.

You haven't "broken down film" or anything. Are you a pro scout that can make that statement? Your ? takes are always a good laugh

[Troll Toll]

I do not watch the Offensive Line intensely like others on here do... That said, as a casual observer, the OL is performing far better than last year and Ford is a massive upgrade from Jordan Mills.

[MDH]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Eric Wood thinks everyone on the Bills OL can block.   He's still a teammate.

 

Von Miller?   What was the ratio in that game 50 run plays to 25 pass plays?   That's the definition of a long day for an undersized edge player.

 

Just use your eyes.   You pointed it out yourself with that play you illustrated.   You can just throw a dart at any random pass play and there is a good chance that the only guy running free at the QB is was Ford's man.  ?     

Yeah, this whole, “what does Joe B know?” line of defense is pretty thin. He’s not looking at stunting DL and trying to figure out the protection call and discover if the mistake was Ford’s.

 

Hes watching a DE run right around a Ford and straight to the QB. Or bull rush Ford back into Allen’s lap.

 

In the Athletic article they edited together like 8-10 plays to illustrate Ford’s struggles and all but one was legit. I do take issue with the 3rd down play in the end zone where Allen stepped forward to make that ridiculous throw to Beasley. On the play Ford pushed his guy wide and deep enough. Other than that every play shown was Ford getting dismantled.

[wppete]

I think our Oline is playing well. 

[DrDawkinstein]

The OL is playing well enough, especially compared to a lot of other OLs around the league.

 

I've been a proponent of letting Ford develop and could see him turning into a decent RT eventually.

 

All that said, I dont think Joe B has been unfair or unnecessarily negative about Ford's performances so far either. The kid does have some improving to do. I appreciate Joe focusing on it because that is a big point of interest (at least for me).

 

And even if he does end up moving to LG, he looks like he'll be a helluva good LG. So I'll take that for a 2nd round pick (yeah, and whatever we traded to move up, i dont care).

 

It's all good no matter how it shakes out.

[Stallions]

On 12/3/2019 at 7:05 PM, whatdrought said:

Brian Balldinger said the exact opposite about Ford... Not sure whose take is more accurate. 

 

Also, I'm not okay letting Spain walk just to try Ford at guard. I don't care what his pedigree is. 

Joe B lost his impact after leaving TV.  He seems to feel writing something dramatic is necessary in his new job.

[vincec]

10 hours ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

You haven't "broken down film" or anything. Are you a pro scout that can make that statement? Your ? takes are always a good laugh

It was sarcasm, since most of the “experts” justify their analysis by stating that they have “reviewed the all-22 multiple times” or watched every play from said player, including Joe B from the OP. But I know that through your colored glasses every post that says something you don’t like is laughable so I don’t take your criticism seriously.

Edited December 5, 2019 by vincec

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

On 12/3/2019 at 7:05 PM, whatdrought said:

Also, I'm not okay letting Spain walk just to try Ford at guard. I don't care what his pedigree is. 

 

I'll be surprised if they sign Spain as likely will try for a big contract which someone will offer.  Think the Bills would rather draft a guy for that position, cheaper and aligns with the "build thru the draft" concept.

[SoTier]

On 12/3/2019 at 7:37 PM, John from Riverside said:

This is the way I think its going to play out

 

Spain is going to want a huge contract......one of the reasons he was even available to us was because he was waiting for money that never materialized and it didnt happen.

 

He has been solid this year.....on a team going to the playoffs......and when the season is over he is going to be looking for one again.

 

Ford is waiting in the wings as a starting guard....and we have a insane amount of depth at the position.

 

Ford to LT.....Jon F. gets extended at RT.......we keep the ex Jet C/G and the guy we traded for as depth......we find another RT.

 

 

 

If Ford isn't doesn't have the footwork and quickness to play RT, he's very unlikely to make a good LT. The big difference between OTs and OGs is footwork and quickness, and LTs generally need to be more agile and quicker than RTs.   It's very common for collegiate OTs to move to the inside in the pros because they fit the guard position better than they do the tackle position.  A good/great guard makes the OL better than a mediocre tackle. 

 

Edit: John from Riverside: I replied to this before I saw that you meant LG rather than LT.

Edited December 5, 2019 by SoTier

[SoTier]

12 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Beane proved he can find olinemen and in particular interior ones in FA last off season. I think we will see another signing like Feliciano. I think Brandon will try to resign Spain but won’t overpay. Long is a possibility as a starter at guard next year. Bills will sign another vet tackle to compete. Ford will start at RT in training camp. Players do get better. I don’t see Beane and McDermott only giving Ford one season to show he can play RT.

 

You can't assume that either FA or the draft is going to produce the right talent that a team needs because the FO was successful in acquiring talent at that position the previous year.  The available talent changes from year to year, and that's especially true for positions like OL where the talent is very limited.  Beane lucked out in 2019. 

 

I think it would be wise for the Bills to make a serious effort to re-sign the OLers who have worked out the best for them, primarily Feliciano and Spain.   The OL is absolutely the unit where a team should spend big $$$, especially if they have aspirations for consistent success during the regular season and playoffs.  

[papazoid]

trent williams

[atlbillsfan1975]

8 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

You can't assume that either FA or the draft is going to produce the right talent that a team needs because the FO was successful in acquiring talent at that position the previous year.  The available talent changes from year to year, and that's especially true for positions like OL where the talent is very limited.  Beane lucked out in 2019. 

 

I think it would be wise for the Bills to make a serious effort to re-sign the OLers who have worked out the best for them, primarily Feliciano and Spain.   The OL is absolutely the unit where a team should spend big $$$, especially if they have aspirations for consistent success during the regular season and playoffs.  

Agreed every off season is different and who is available changes. 
I don’t think Beane ‘lucked out’. I’m pretty sure he and the staff did their due diligence before making the signings they did.

I am a big believer in that  oline is the single most important unit on a team. A little bias on my part because I played on the oline Into my college days. I trust Brandon and his staff to review all players available before making decisions and how much to pay someone. Not sure I would of been able to say that about the Bills FO for a long time.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 hour ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Agreed every off season is different and who is available changes. 
I don’t think Beane ‘lucked out’. I’m pretty sure he and the staff did their due diligence before making the signings they did.

I am a big believer in that  oline is the single most important unit on a team. A little bias on my part because I played on the oline Into my college days. I trust Brandon and his staff to review all players available before making decisions and how much to pay someone. Not sure I would of been able to say that about the Bills FO for a long time.

SoTier is a joke. He will be the first to criticize moves that don't work out, but when they do it is the product of "luck."  I'm all about investing in the O-Line. WR, good or bad, barely matter.  Its the O-Line that makes tangible play in and play out impact. 

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Agreed every off season is different and who is available changes. 
I don’t think Beane ‘lucked out’. I’m pretty sure he and the staff did their due diligence before making the signings they did.

I am a big believer in that  oline is the single most important unit on a team. A little bias on my part because I played on the oline Into my college days. I trust Brandon and his staff to review all players available before making decisions and how much to pay someone. Not sure I would of been able to say that about the Bills FO for a long time.

 

Beane lucked out in that there was talent available.  You can't sign decent/good FAs if they aren't available, and with OLers, even guys who are decent/good but not great never make it to FA.  It's the same in the draft.  Just because the Bills really need a WR1 and this looks like a good year for WRs doesn't mean that the WRs available when they pick are what they want -- or that there's not a better player at another position available that ought to be a no-brainer to take.

[SoTier]

5 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

SoTier is a joke. He will be the first to criticize moves that don't work out, but when they do it is the product of "luck."  I'm all about investing in the O-Line. WR, good or bad, barely matter.  Its the O-Line that makes tangible play in and play out impact. 

 

When you have nothing to add to discussions except to engage in ad hominem attacks, you demonstrate the quality of your football knowledge or lack of same.

[Stank_Nasty]

15 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

SoTier is a joke. He will be the first to criticize moves that don't work out, but when they do it is the product of "luck."  I'm all about investing in the O-Line. WR, good or bad, barely matter.  Its the O-Line that makes tangible play in and play out impact. 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

16 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

When you have nothing to add to discussions except to engage in ad hominem attacks, you demonstrate the quality of your football knowledge or lack of same.

Sorry, man, that ship has sailed with you. You live in a fantasy land.  You simply are not to be taken seriously, especially for the exact example I cited above. 

[Don Otreply]

34 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

When you have nothing to add to discussions except to engage in ad hominem attacks, you demonstrate the quality of your football knowledge or lack of same.

Give credit where credit is due, T&KP, BB & SM have done a very good job turning this once miserably run organization into a respectable professional football team.  Are they perfect?  are you perfect?, am I perfect, Hell no, is the answer,  but they are doing well with what has been available to work with, jmo. Stop being so freakin grumpy all the time, nuthin but luv...

 

Go Bills!!!

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

When you have nothing to add to discussions except to engage in ad hominem attacks, you demonstrate the quality of your football knowledge or lack of same.

 

I'll tell you what, explain to me how you justify criticizing the front office's previous misses, but call their successes "luck."  Tell me how that is not bad faith.