Joe B. All-22 vs Cowboys: Ford may have sealed his fate as a Guard in 2020

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Yeah Ford is an athlete in motion but his feet are not nimble.

 

I could see Mitch Morse ending up at RT next year.  He might be the most athletic guy on their line.   Tackle in college........concussion issues are a huge concern at center.........somewhat less at RT.    

 

Feliciano and Bates might be able to handle the C1 and C2 spots.

 

Interesting idea. I don't think they do it but I like the thinking and I love Feliciano at center. 

[Lurker]

The biggest thing that will help Ford in pass pro is Allen getting more comfortable in the pocket (knowing when to slide over, move up, roll out).   

 

That appears to be happening in recent weeks...

[Freddie's Dead]

I don't get it.  I didn't see Lawrence in Josh's face the whole game.  I actually thought Ford held his own against a premier pass rusher.

[fansince88]

11 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I kind of took some heat for asking the same question after the Denver game.

Tell me you usurped your authority and doled out points like it was candy on Halloween! BTW. I agree 100% with you on that one. 

[ALF]

I think Ford is making good progress for a rookie OT.  He is learning from mistakes and has the right attitude . 

 

I'm just thankful that Juan Castillo is gone

Edited December 4, 2019 by ALF

[whatdrought]

6 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

"@BuffaloBills @dallascowboys @DDawkins @CodyFord  had another outstanding performance on Thanksgiving. They are reaching a level of consistency in Pass Protection whereby they don't believe they need help and the results are more options for @JoshAllenQB  #BaldysBreakdowns."

 

I don't see anything there specific to Ford's pass protection. He's complementing the Bills OL's pass protection as a whole. He says some nice things about Ford in the audio, but again as Allen is forced by Ford's guy to step up.

 

More, Baldinger clearly isn't claiming to have gone play-by-play there. He's giving his overall impression, though that's valuable, Baldy's smart. And it's pretty funny that he says that and then as an example shows a video of a different play where Ford is beaten around the edge, and Baldy says, "but the quarterback has a great feel ... when to step up," as Allen avoids the guy who got around Ford by stepping up and heading for the sideline.

 

I like Baldinger, he's good with his video and his breakdowns.

 

What. Are you kidding me?

 

Im not going to argue the validity of Baldingers take, and I’m not going to argue about Ford’s overall pass protection. 

 

I am going to argue for reading comprehension...

 

“...@codyford had another outstanding performance on thanksgiving. He(they) is reaching another level of consistency in pass protection.”

 

You can argue that his interpretation of the tape is bad, but saying “I don’t see anything specific to Ford’s pass blocking” is idiotic.

[CaptnCoke11]

He definitely struggled in the Dallas game.  Allen did a great job of avoiding the rush for the most part but Joe B does seem to single out Ford almost every week.  I believe he will also be a guard in 2020 and that’s not such a bad thing.  He’s a great run blocker but lacks the ideal foot speed for OT.  

[LABILLBACKER]

Ford is a Guard, not a RT. It's so obvious. 

[oldmanfan]

The kid is coming along.  One of the common themes in the league is that it takes time for young O linemen to develop because so many of them don't play with their hand in the dirt anymore in college, and they don't play against higher level talent seen in the pros.  He might be fine at RT with more experience, he might be better at G.  But there should be a place for him based on what we've seen thus far.  Oh, and the criticism that he sometimes get beat one on one by very fast DE's coming around the edge?  That's pretty much the norm except for the very very best tackles.

[CLTbills]

All that matters and all that I care about is the analysis of the coaching staff. If they think he's doing okay, and that he's our best option out there, then I'm okay with it. I'm pretty sure Bobby Johnson has a little more experience in evaluating O-line talent than Joe Buscaglia. ?‍♂️

[Johnny Hammersticks]

12 hours ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

I too think the Bills move Ford to RG... Move Feliciano to LG, Spain does not resign. 

 

Bills Draft OT, one that played LT or has potential to play LT but will play RT as a rookie. Also insurance for Dawkins being in a contract year.

 

Alex Leatherwood, Austin Jackson, Tristan Wirf, Walker Little... there’s about 4-5 OTs being talked about now as round 1 guys. Potential to be a best player available too.

 

 

 

Great name for an OT ?

[Rochesterfan]

6 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah, but again, Baldy never specifically says much about Ford's pass pro. He says a lot about the Bills doing well, a lot about Allen knowing when to step up away from pressure and get outside (in these videos both times it happens he's been forced off the spot by Ford's man getting pressure by going around the edge).

 

He's right that in the Dallas game, Ford got little help, but in the Denver game he did. And there's nothing wrong with that, but Baldy's complementing the Bills here. And when he say that the tackles were going mano-a-mano, toe to toe, that's Ford's strength. Nobody's had much success against Ford going toe to toe and bullrushing.

 

We'll see down the line, but it sure looks to me like Ford's got a specific weakness concerning fast guys who can get around him. Turn down the sound on Baldy and just watch the video, and see if you don't agree.

 

He is specifically referring to the 2 players he @‘d in the title - Ford and Dawkins.  They also talked with Baldy on OBL on Monday and he was complementary of both tackles and the time they gave Allen in the pass game.

 

It is obvious that Ford’s weakness is his quickness and his first step - allowing these speed rushers to get parallel and pressure Josh, but you also see the adjustment the Bills made.  JA is setting a bit shallower and Cody is big enough and strong enough that he is able to ride that guy up field and give JA a huge running lane behind the edge rusher.

 

Speed Rushers are his problem, but the teams that have had success against Allen recognize that rushing with edge speed allows JA more room because he is good at avoiding the rush by stepping up and then escaping.  The technique Ford is using appears to be to first ensure no inside pressure and he is a bit slow to get outside, but my guess is they have told him - if you are going to get beat, get beat out there and widen as much as possible.  
 

Teams with success have used strong DE/EDGE guys to form a pocket- keeping JA from moving around and ensuring that JA can’t escape the pocket.  I agree that Ford could be great at OG, but I think he can also play tackle and has a lot of flexibility- allowing the Bills to find and pay guys they want and then shifting him as needed.

[peterpan]

13 hours ago, TH3 said:

Not for nothing....but other than enthusiasm.....does Joe B have any qualifications to be breaking down film?

I don't read these all 22 pieces for that reason.   Often times it's the  Blind leading the blind.

[N.Y. Orangeman]

Joe Buscaglia’s football resume includes:

”Joe has lived in Buffalo for all but two years of his life, graduating from St. Francis High School (2004) and then from Buffalo State College (2008). He also spent his first two collegiate years on the campus of Florida State University.

A nerd in every sense of the term, Joe enjoys breaking down football film, coaching youth athletics, playing Settlers of Catan with his best friends, knowing far too much about the Harry Potter series, and building up an embarrassingly extensive collection of colorful socks.“

 

I’ll take Baldy

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, peterpan said:

I don't read these all 22 pieces for that reason.   Often times it's the  Blind leading the blind.

 

It depends upon who you read.  Erik Turner (Cover1) is pretty good.  He's not 100%, but he's pretty good.

 

10 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I have to disagree with you here.

 

There's not one single other play in all that video where the QB rolls out. And in the written explanation, Turner specifically says that the pressure on Allen prevents the original intended throw. That's not a rollout, it's an escape underneath a rusher who made it around the outside well enough to pressure Allen.

 

"Allen is slightly under pressure just as Beasley makes eye contact with his QB, so he isn’t able to pull the trigger just yet. Due to the slight pressure from defensive end Michael Bennett and linebacker Jaylon Smith, Allen and Beasley activate the secondary route. The deep safety has his hips open to the wide side of the field because Allen appears to go into scramble mode. Allen sees Beasley working down the seam, the weakness in Cover 3, so Beasley works over the middle and creates a window for his QB."

 

There's nothing in the whole article about rolling out. And all the SMU throws are from the pocket.

 

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing about - that a QB roll-out to buy time for the secondary route to develop is a part of the run and shoot?

 

You can debate that specific play - Looking again at the all 22, Ford does lose the guy at the point where Allen steps forward, then he re-engages and keeps him off Allen's back.  But it's a secondary route, and needs time beyond the primary route to develop.

 

Edit: I think this is a different play than you're quoting Cover1 about - Allen's throw from the endzone - but I think this is pretty definitive.

This is Eric Wood breaking down the play on the Bills "Chopping Wood" segment and he specifically calls out Ford IN A GOOD WAY for "driving DeMarcus Lawrence by"

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/chopping-wood-beast-mode-beasley-and-extraordinary-ed-oliver

 

PS no, the TD throw to Beas that he specifically called out as an SMU play is NOT from the pocket.  Look at it again.  That's Allen on the hashes at the 33 and Beasley on the "1" at the 10.  If you look at it very similar play from Ford where he starts to get beat outside and then drives the defender by Allen into the backfield, then Allen slides right and forward while waiting for Beas' 2ndary route.

 

[Dukestreetking]

3 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

The technique Ford is using appears to be to first ensure no inside pressure and he is a bit slow to get outside, but my guess is they have told him - if you are going to get beat, get beat out there and widen as much as possible.  

Spot on, in my view.

 

Just look at Ford's body angle pre-snap (shoulders/feet), as compared to DD... he's damn near 45 degrees to the line of scrimmage.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 minutes ago, Dukestreetking said:

Spot on, in my view.

 

Just look at Ford's body angle pre-snap (shoulders/feet), as compared to DD... he's damn near 45 degrees to the line of scrimmage.

 

Again, put this in a different post upthread - go to Buffalobills.com and give Chopping Wood a listen.  From how Wood is talking, this seems like it is indeed Ford's assignment- 1) don't get beat inside 2) drive the defender by and block him from getting forward to Allen 3) Allen moves right and forward into the lane that "driving the defender by" leaves him

[dave mcbride]

On 12/3/2019 at 7:07 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I've taken some heat for mocking his pass pro lately.     It's just been a fact that.   He's not good in pass pro.

 

But two of his worst plays Thursday did lead to TD's.......Allen bolting from the pocket and throwing the TD pass to Beasley and running the other one in for a TD.

 

As I've said........the good things are that Ford is on Allen's front side so he can keep an eye on his whiffs and that Allen can get away and make big plays out of the pocket.

 

In other words, he'd be a real problem for Brady if he was playing RT for the Pats.

Edited December 5, 2019 by dave mcbride

[Reed83HOF]

4 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Ford is a Guard, not a RT. It's so obvious. 

It's been obvious all season long

12 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Yeah Ford is an athlete in motion but his feet are not nimble.

 

I could see Mitch Morse ending up at RT next year.  He might be the most athletic guy on their line.   Tackle in college........concussion issues are a huge concern at center.........somewhat less at RT.    

 

Feliciano and Bates might be able to handle the C1 and C2 spots.

This is such an interesting idea...

[ColoradoBills]

Ford has had issues at RT in pass protection.

An argument can be made that he has improved slightly since the beginning of the season.

That's where he is today.

 

I will speculate that Ford will be given a shot at RT during next years camp among others.

He will have an entire off season to try to improve.