Who would be our Steve Bartman or Bill Buckner

[DCBongo]

I see a lot of Norwood, but if he made it, would the Bills have gone back the next  year?  I feel it was losing that brought the team closer and let to the 4 falls of Buffalo.  25 years later for the last SB loss, I feel the team showed more character losing and rising up, than they night of winning one.

 

That being said, I want them to win one.....at least!

[GregPersons]

 

7 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Norwood get a hell of an applause and a standing O at the Bills rally at Niagara square

 

Buffalo forgave him along time ago

 

Exactly.  The Four Falls of Buffalo documentary had the footage of Norwood at the team's rally the morning after the SB — he's already been forgiven. It was never really Norwood's fault, and that missed kick wouldn't make sense as the cause of a "curse." There's no shortage of examples throughout Buffalo sports of gut-wrenching defeats.

 

I'd love to see the Bills win one while Marv Levy is still with us... and who could forget his more recent tenure as GM during the drought... he's been as involved as anyone besides Ralph or Polian in terms of longevity and connection to trying to get Buffalo to a championship. 

 

[Phil The Thrill]

10 hours ago, bighorn_zilla said:

Long time reader, First Time writer. 

 

In connection with some talk about “running the table” and being the number 1 seed in the AFC, my mind made a greater leap – I know “getting way ahead of myself” – to winning the super bowl and what it would feel like.  For context, I have been a fan since 1967 and am old enough to remember nearly the Bills entire history. 

 

With that said, I started thinking about other franchises in similar situations, the Cubs ending the 108-year drought or the Boston Red Sox and the 86-year period of futility from 1918 to 2004 and how their fans reacted.  In the case of each referenced franchise, as part of their celebrations, each "forgave" someone - the Cubs “forgave” Steve Bartman and the Sox “forgave” Bill Buckner. 

 

In case of my great leap, to me, the obvious response for the Bills would be player Scott Norwood.  But I would like to read TBD’s responses – it can be a player (Tom Demsey failing to break the Dolphin streak, Ronnie Harmon for dropping Kelly’s pass in the endzone), fan (the dude who slide off the upper deck), coach (Wade Phillips for getting over run by the owner with the Flutie/Johnson thing), owner, GM, event.  Who or What would you "forgive?"

Fun topic.... I think you have to forgive Ralph Wilson’s poor ownership and football decisions because ultimately he is the one responsible for the long playoff drought.  Things improved once Ralph and his cronies were out of the equation 

[Phil The Thrill]

7 hours ago, Steve O said:

What people forget is that the touchdown before the drop Norwood missed the extra point, or we could have tied the game with a field goal in spite of the drop. Think he missed a field goal or two that day as well, in a Dr office now, no time to check.

I will always say that Polian held onto Norwood two years longer than he should have.  Scotty fell off a cliff after his great 1988.  By 1989 he just was not as reliable - especially on natural turf which a lot of teams still had back then.   
 

Had Polian been a bit more proactive he might have signed a better kicker 

 

 I actually think about Hauschka the same way and hope I am wrong.  

[Jay_Fixit]

Marv Levy.

 

His coaching job against the Giants was atrocious. I blame him for the loss more than anyone else.

[klos63]

8 hours ago, Steve O said:

What people forget is that the touchdown before the drop Norwood missed the extra point, or we could have tied the game with a field goal in spite of the drop. Think he missed a field goal or two that day as well, in a Dr office now, no time to check.

I am no fan of Norwood, but in his defense , that was a horrible field. I think he slipped on one of his kicks. It was mostly a dirt field. 

[Talley56]

I love Thurman, but maybe him for the fumble in SB 28.  We were ahead and had controlled the first half.  After the fumble-TD to open the 2nd half,  all momentum was lost.

[Buftex]

Justified or not, it is Norwood...all other answers are just an attempt to keep the discussion going.  I mean, the missed kick by Norwood in SB 25 was the basis for a cult film, and "Norwood" is a part of the sports lexicon in a way that nobody, or nothing else in Buffalo sports history, save for maybe OJ Simpsons' "slashing style".

[Steve O]

59 minutes ago, klos63 said:

I am no fan of Norwood, but in his defense , that was a horrible field. I think he slipped on one of his kicks. It was mostly a dirt field. 

That field was indeed horrible, same field Marino blew out his Achilles on. I was wrong about the missed field goal but right about the missed PAT. Had he made it we could have kicked a field goal after Harmon's drop and won the game in overtime, and that drop would have been a footnote rather than the thing he's remembered for.

[GregPersons]

55 minutes ago, Buftex said:

Justified or not, it is Norwood...all other answers are just an attempt to keep the discussion going.  I mean, the missed kick by Norwood in SB 25 was the basis for a cult film, and "Norwood" is a part of the sports lexicon in a way that nobody, or nothing else in Buffalo sports history, save for maybe OJ Simpsons' "slashing style".

 

Besides Buffalo 66, it's also the plot of the first Ace Ventura movie — they changed it to be the Miami Dolphins so that the more camera-friendly Marino could be part of it, but Ray Finkle is a take on Norwood.

 

It's just so unearned, though, because it was out of Norwood's range on grass and they knew it, or they should've known it. The blame is on Jim Kelly for that loss, and Marv Levy, for not running the ball more, for not being able to recognize what the defense was giving them. I feel bad for Norwood because he was set up to fail, basically a hail mary FG attempt for him, but I find it hard to hold him responsible, so I can't imagine basking in the glow of the Bills winning a SB and thinking "Yeah, this one goes out to Scotty, wherever you are, Norwood... genie, you're free!" He's just one among many who whiffed for Buffalo.

 

There are just far too many other examples of Buffalo being cursed — OJ being maybe the biggest punchline — for all of it to go to Norwood, when barely any of it is on Norwood, imo.  

 

Winning a SB would make that team heroes, and it'd exorcise some demons from the fanbase's general spirit, maybe make it easier to appreciate in hindsight aspects of the bum squads of the drought and so forth, but Norwood still missed the kick he was never going to make. I don't think he would appreciate people being like "hey, the Bills finally won one! Took a couple decades but they cleaned up your mess. I now give you permission to stop hating yourself. Congrats!!"

[Billsatlastin2018]

Scott Norwood!?? The same person, I saw shank it from my 5 yard line seat in Tampa, to deflate forever, the excitement of the greatest SB up to that moment! 

Just watched the clip again... Never, ever gonna be even close.

 

 

[klos63]

8 hours ago, Steve O said:

That field was indeed horrible, same field Marino blew out his Achilles on. I was wrong about the missed field goal but right about the missed PAT. Had he made it we could have kicked a field goal after Harmon's drop and won the game in overtime, and that drop would have been a footnote rather than the thing he's remembered for.

It's funny how people rightly make a big deal out of Harmon's drop, while totally ignoring we had another play left where Kelly through an INT. I know it was desperation time, but it was a crappy pass.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Marv Levy. Was outcoached in all four SuperBowls. 

[row_33]

8 hours ago, GregPersons said:

 

Besides Buffalo 66, it's also the plot of the first Ace Ventura movie — they changed it to be the Miami Dolphins so that the more camera-friendly Marino could be part of it, but Ray Finkle is a take on Norwood.

 

 

 

there isn't remotely a connexion between Buffalo 66 by way of Vincent Gallo, and an Ace Ventura movie.... 

 

 

[eball]

Whoever gave Bruce Smith the flu before our playoff game in Pittsburgh.

[row_33]

2 hours ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

Scott Norwood!?? The same person, I saw shank it from my 5 yard line seat in Tampa, to deflate forever, the excitement of the greatest SB up to that moment! 

Just watched the clip again... Never, ever gonna be even close.

 

 

 

for the whole time it took to set it up, i had 0% belief he was going to make that kick...

 

[klos63]

3 hours ago, row_33 said:

 

for the whole time it took to set it up, i had 0% belief he was going to make that kick...

 

Same, I just thought it would be straight down the middle, but short.

[Buftex]

23 hours ago, GregPersons said:

 

Besides Buffalo 66, it's also the plot of the first Ace Ventura movie — they changed it to be the Miami Dolphins so that the more camera-friendly Marino could be part of it, but Ray Finkle is a take on Norwood.

 

It's just so unearned, though, because it was out of Norwood's range on grass and they knew it, or they should've known it. The blame is on Jim Kelly for that loss, and Marv Levy, for not running the ball more, for not being able to recognize what the defense was giving them. I feel bad for Norwood because he was set up to fail, basically a hail mary FG attempt for him, but I find it hard to hold him responsible, so I can't imagine basking in the glow of the Bills winning a SB and thinking "Yeah, this one goes out to Scotty, wherever you are, Norwood... genie, you're free!" He's just one among many who whiffed for Buffalo.

 

There are just far too many other examples of Buffalo being cursed — OJ being maybe the biggest punchline — for all of it to go to Norwood, when barely any of it is on Norwood, imo.  

 

Winning a SB would make that team heroes, and it'd exorcise some demons from the fanbase's general spirit, maybe make it easier to appreciate in hindsight aspects of the bum squads of the drought and so forth, but Norwood still missed the kick he was never going to make. I don't think he would appreciate people being like "hey, the Bills finally won one! Took a couple decades but they cleaned up your mess. I now give you permission to stop hating yourself. Congrats!!"

I don't think it has anything to do with whether it is deserved or not...

[Franco_92]

Norwood's miss is fundamentally different from those guys - that kick was at the outside of his range at the time, no? missing 47 yarders is fairly common now, much less back then, and so many other issues led to the bills being in that position in the first place. Whereas Bartman is a fan who ***** up an inning, and Buckner's was a play any of us could have made successfully. I certainly can't kick a 47 yarder as easily as I could scoop a grounder and walk to 1st. 

The Bills don't really have one guy that compares to those ones.

[BobbyC81]

On 12/3/2019 at 9:57 AM, BillsFanSD said:

I don't have anything against either of these guys, but my two nominees are Scott Norwood (obviously) and Bruce DeHaven (cover the kickoff).  Those two gentlemen headline a cast of characters that I associate with bad memories as a Bills fan.  

Actually, the blame goes to DeHaven for calling a squib kick and not kicking it deep.  Also, for the Titans to run that lateral play, how did they know it was going to be kicked short?