djp14150 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Mark Vader said: The Arena League lasted for a long time, it's not like it folded after one season. A few of those teams did have real fan followings. This was a skrleton if its former self. many teams left and joined other competing leagues doing the same thing. why this wasn’t financial successful was likrly it’s own undoing. if your player budget is something around $40K split between the two teams. You get 4000 fans to come out for around $10 a game. you can break even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetermansRedemption Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: It won’t be free. That’s my point. The NCAA has already changed the rules on name, image and likeness. The NFL can’t spend like these universities for a high school kid. If you are Chase Young coming out of high school, in a free market, you’ll make WAY more at OSU than in the minors. The boosters will be giving you $5M deals to advertise cars. The NFL just isn’t going to throw equivalent money at guys because the minor league can never generate the revenue of the NCAA. It’s a broken plan. That’s why every league has failed (and that’s before the NCAA allowed guys to earn). It has no chance Ohhh I get what your putting down now. Completely agree, excellent point. Would finally force the NCAA to pay, but obviously the NFL doesn’t much care enough to take the moral high ground. 38 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Really the USFL failed thanks to one certain stabile genius owner who wanted to force the NFLs hand. Half the USFL teams drew good crowds and ratings on ABC and ESPN were decent. Had they stayed the course they might still be around today, maybe eventually partnering with the NFL as a feeder system. Frankly I have doubts the NFL will be around in 20 years. Young people aren't playing the sport and fewer are becoming fans. That combined with concern over CTE makes the chances for a rival league slim to none. Dead on about the USFL. That league likely would have succeeded if Trump didn’t force them to move to fall, blow the budget, and completely unravel the league. 1 hour ago, billsfan_34 said: They did that in Europe and it allowed development. It was probably the best of all the spin off leagues we have seen. I remember NFL Europe, good times. With how much the NFL wants to develop the European market I am surprised there hasn’t even been rumors of a possible return. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 3 hours ago, Virgil said: The NFL needs to step in and make some form of supplement league. Between the XFL, CFL, and other startups, there’s clearly a demand for it, but they can’t compete. With the amount of college players, who’ve ever else out there, they should be some form of league that can run in the spring, where the best players can transition to teams for training camp. If I knew the Bills had a minor league type team that they share with other teams, I would watch that It would cost them money. Why would they want that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted November 28, 2019 Author Share Posted November 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said: It would cost them money. Why would they want that? Money and liability. The latter is likely a big reason why the NFL won't get involved with a minor league. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Money and liability. The latter is likely a big reason why the NFL won't get involved with a minor league. Interesting point and a great one!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Turtle Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 3 hours ago, Virgil said: The NFL needs to step in and make some form of supplement league. Between the XFL, CFL, and other startups, there’s clearly a demand for it, but they can’t compete. With the amount of college players, who’ve ever else out there, they should be some form of league that can run in the spring, where the best players can transition to teams for training camp. If I knew the Bills had a minor league type team that they share with other teams, I would watch that The investment dollars to do this would be astronomical. The schools in the top 5 conferences maintain NFL-level facilities and pay their coaches millions of dollars. The NCAA has massive TV contracts and booster support that provide revenue that a NFL D-league could never match. And in the end, the NFL doesn't even need a minor league. Unlike the NHL and MLB, the NFL draft age is 20 years old, not 18. So 18 and 19 year old football players develop in extremely well-funded, first-rate football factories. The XFL will crash and burn, just like the other attempts to start a new league every other year. Just another delusional rich guy burning money on an ego trip. Between the NFL and NCAA, the market is closed to a new league, especially one that is built on spare parts from the other leagues. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stallions Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, Perry Turtle said: The investment dollars to do this would be astronomical. The schools in the top 5 conferences maintain NFL-level facilities and pay their coaches millions of dollars. The NCAA has massive TV contracts and booster support that provide revenue that a NFL D-league could never match. And in the end, the NFL doesn't even need a minor league. Unlike the NHL and MLB, the NFL draft age is 20 years old, not 18. So 18 and 19 year old football players develop in extremely well-funded, first-rate football factories. The XFL will crash and burn, just like the other attempts to start a new league every other year. Just another delusional rich guy burning money on an ego trip. Between the NFL and NCAA, the market is closed to a new league, especially one that is built on spare parts from the other leagues. Are we talking about The Arena League with games played indoor on hockey ice covered with a carpet??? We had the Buffalo Destroyers who were awful. Ray Bentley coached the team for a few seasons. The owner moved the team to Columbus OH. How could anyone believe this would relate to NFL football? Nobody from the Arena League was a potential NFL player. Lou Saban coached a team in Milwaukee years ago. It was a throw the ball in the air and run & catch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 4 hours ago, Virgil said: The NFL needs to step in and make some form of supplement league. Between the XFL, CFL, and other startups, there’s clearly a demand for it, but they can’t compete. With the amount of college players, who’ve ever else out there, they should be some form of league that can run in the spring, where the best players can transition to teams for training camp. If I knew the Bills had a minor league type team that they share with other teams, I would watch that It's truly amazing to see that anyone would still believe, despite all evidence to the contrary and despite the history of the NFL and the NCAA and despite the history of the complete and repeated failure of every other US pro football organization.....that the NFL would want to or feel compelled to pay for some bush league product that might see a handful of guy move upon to the NFL from. The 32 franchises have their pick of the "best" new players every Spring--plus they can trade players and pick up cut players. Football fans win this country have zero interest in these other pro leagues. They all failed for lack of revenue (i.e., no significant fan interest). Let it go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetermansRedemption Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said: It's truly amazing to see that anyone would still believe, despite all evidence to the contrary and despite the history of the NFL and the NCAA and despite the history of the complete and repeated failure of every other US pro football organization.....that the NFL would want to or feel compelled to pay for some bush league product that might see a handful of guy move upon to the NFL from. The 32 franchises have their pick of the "best" new players every Spring--plus they can trade players and pick up cut players. Football fans win this country have zero interest in these other pro leagues. They all failed for lack of revenue (i.e., no significant fan interest). Let it go. At one point, it could have. The USFL was the only league that ever had a chance. Trump killed that league though. That was the one shot at the beast. The NFL is far too big to ever have a minor league or anything close to it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 4 hours ago, Rocky Landing said: I posted earlier this year (in a "bold ideas" thread, or something like that...) that there should be a minor-league NFL (NMLF?, perhaps), that would consist of 32 minor-league teams that would function as farm teams for each NFL team. They would be subsidized by each NFL team, and the rules governing how other teams could sign players off of them would be similar to the current rules for the practice squad. NMLF teams would have to reside in cities that did not have current NFL teams. And, it would be a good method for testing new rule changes, and gauging the unintended consequences. Go Rochester Rockheads! Be a great way to find decent replacements when the injury bug hits a team too.. so maybe just maybe teams don’t fall of the map from 3 or 4 key injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 My issue with arena football is that it is not really football. It is similar but not really the same product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 1 hour ago, PetermansRedemption said: At one point, it could have. The USFL was the only league that ever had a chance. Trump killed that league though. That was the one shot at the beast. The NFL is far too big to ever have a minor league or anything close to it now. Yeah Trump was foolish to try to move from Spring to Fall, but that league and it’s teams were already hemorrhaging cash well before that. It was over, effectively, before Trump made that move. No one was tuning in anymore as the novelty wore off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted November 28, 2019 Author Share Posted November 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Stallions said: Are we talking about The Arena League with games played indoor on hockey ice covered with a carpet??? We had the Buffalo Destroyers who were awful. Ray Bentley coached the team for a few seasons. The owner moved the team to Columbus OH. How could anyone believe this would relate to NFL football? Nobody from the Arena League was a potential NFL player. Lou Saban coached a team in Milwaukee years ago. It was a throw the ball in the air and run & catch it. Well actually a number of NFL players came out of the Arena League. Kurt Warner is probably the best known. I think Ty Nsekhe did too, and Fred Jackson came out of a minor arena league. (CIFL) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 7 hours ago, r00tabaga said: Had no idea...... honestly thought it was already done Me neither. Just like I recently discovered Maury Povich and Jerry Springer are still on TV. I couldn't believe it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 14 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Well actually a number of NFL players came out of the Arena League. Kurt Warner is probably the best known. I think Ty Nsekhe did too, and Fred Jackson came out of a minor arena league. (CIFL) Touchdown Eddie Brown (Albany Firebirds) was the most prolific WR in Arena League history. His son, Antonio, just happens to be the most prolific douchebag in NFL history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 3 hours ago, Stallions said: Are we talking about The Arena League with games played indoor on hockey ice covered with a carpet??? We had the Buffalo Destroyers who were awful. Ray Bentley coached the team for a few seasons. The owner moved the team to Columbus OH. How could anyone believe this would relate to NFL football? Nobody from the Arena League was a potential NFL player. Lou Saban coached a team in Milwaukee years ago. It was a throw the ball in the air and run & catch it. Syracuse had a team, not in the AFL, but some lower competitor of theirs. Lasted less than a season, went through three owners, but their wiki says two. .. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syracuse_Soldiers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poleshifter Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 I'm surprised it has lasted this long. I like football variations, like the CFL, but I have not watched the Arena League in 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyC81 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 5 hours ago, PetermansRedemption said: At one point, it could have. The USFL was the only league that ever had a chance. Trump killed that league though. That was the one shot at the beast. The NFL is far too big to ever have a minor league or anything close to it now. Yes, he was part of the reason. Another was that although the USFL won a lawsuit against the NFL they were only rewarded $1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple haze Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 9 hours ago, PetermansRedemption said: I mean, I think most people know college is a sham for true NFL talent anyways. They get a free college education that they don’t want or need. Thinking people know that if people like Antonio Brown can go through college that it’s not a true education. I’m not from the south, so I can’t speak from experience. But I can’t imagine anyone with any intelligence would choose to play for free in college over absolutely any salary at all from a sanctioned NFL system. Then again, these aren’t intelligent people we are talking about in most cases. Why do you think the NFL talent at a major college football program is playing for "free"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 What are substantial legacy liabilities ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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