Joe B. All-22 from Broncos game - pump the brakes on Cody Ford vs Von Miller love

[oldmanfan]

7 minutes ago, cage said:

 

Fair enough and you're right.  Here is the disclaimer that he puts in each article as he dives into the grades.  He doesn't appear to be doing it by himself.  He probably should state who else is part of the grading.  I've bolded statements that acknowledge the potential shortcomings of the work.  However, I'll stand by that this has to be a more objective review of each player than people who just watched the TV broadcast (even re-watched it) and could only observe select highlights.

 

How the standards work

Every Tuesday, when the All-22 film becomes available, we’ll go through and watch every player on every play as many times as necessary to assess letter grades. It is a subjective analysis, and it’s important to note we do not know the play calls and full responsibilities. The grades stem from technique, effort and presumed liability.

The study accounts only for players who take a snap on offense or defense. Players with fewer than 15 snaps — unless they have a significant impact on the game — will not factor into weekly rankings.

Season-long grades will be tallied and documented, with a single game’s grade weighted based on how much the player was on the field in a given week.

Thanks for including this.  I agree having the ability to go back and look time and again is helpful

[cage]

9 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Thanks for including this.  I agree having the ability to go back and look time and again is helpful

 

BTW, his headline on Ford is:

Ford was solid but primarily received a ton of help with Von Miller

[soflabillsfan1]

Man, we have some thin-skinned fans.

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, cage said:

 

Its not.  The main point is that the outcome wasn't Ford on his own handling Miller.  Given that absence of hearing Miller's name during the game, many assumed that Ford handled him, however the video analysis shows that he had lots of help in the process.  Nothing wrong with that.  Mission accomplished!  Well done by the coaching staff, scheming, game planning and player execution which includes Ford, but the All-22 analysis seeks to individually grade each player

 

 

This exactly.

 

And it's not surprising that Gaughan comes up with much the same conclusions.

 

https://buffalonews.com/2019/11/26/buffalo-bills-dion-dawkins-quinton-spain-offensive-line-denver-broncos-analysis-von-miller-nfl-grades-2019/?utm_medium=more_stories

 

"The offensive line leads this week’s position-by-position grading of the Bills, based on video review and on a scale of 0 to 5:

 

"Offensive line (4.5): Miller played 47 snaps off right tackle and 11 off left tackle. Rookie Cody Ford had to solo block Miller 10 times and gave up only one hurry. Eight other times Ford got help from a back, a tight end or guard Spencer Long. On a third-down conversion pass for 12 yards, Ford had perfect balance against Miller. Ditto for the TD pass to Cole Beasley. Ford allowed only one hurry. Dawkins allowed a sack to Miller (aided by a blitz) but yielded only one other hurry.

 

"In the run game, Spain showed off his power. He blocked Reed on a 27-yard run by Frank Gore. He sealed off tough nose tackle Mike Purcell a couple times. He picked up blitzing A.J. Johnson on the TD pass to John Brown. He walled off Adam Gotsis on several clock-killing runs. It was an A-plus day for Spain. Props to Jon Feliciano for playing stout and glitch-free over the last 64 snaps at center in place of Mitch Morse."

 

 

Good, but had a lot of help. As you say, nothing at all wrong with that. But it's very much worth noting. And pointing it out isn't some kind of anti-Bills act.

 

 

Edited November 27, 2019 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I guess I'm wondering what is the definition of "attacked relentlessly"?

I see one post slinging a mild insult "tool", maybe two if "enjoy the game" counts as an attack?

 

The rest appear to be differing opinions and a few questioning Joe's film breakdown chops, which I think is fair it's not like he's a former OL coach. 

Where are the relentless attacks?

 

 

Questioning his breakdown chops is fair ... if you're then going back and doing your own breakdowns. But that's not what is happening here.

 

People disagree with the message so they're saying that the messenger must suck. These are all people who didn't like the message responding angrily:

 

 

12 hours ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

Jesus Joe.  
 

ENJOY THE ***** WIN FOR CHRIST SAKE 

 

12 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

As to the middle bolded... Yeah, Joe, that's the way it's supposed to work!

 

Had Joe said it wasn't supposed to work that way?

 

 

12 hours ago, Bubba Gump said:

 

No kidding. He's starting to sound like Sully

 

 

11 hours ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

is he job to be a tool?

 

 

 

All within the first 11 replies. There were also some very reasonable replies on both sides, but Joe always gets criticisms, and they always come when he said something not wildly sycophantic about a Bills player.

 

And that Eric Wood interview you mentioned I always considered a classic, because he went over several plays that he said fans wouldn't understand and I went back and found I'd gone through parts of the film on various research projects. I hadn't analyzed all the plays, but I believe I had looked at two out of three and had correctly understood both of them before I saw the interview. And I'm no football genius.

 

It isn't as tough as many believe to break this stuff down. It's certainly not possible on all plays but on a very high percentage it's really pretty easy ... if you're willing to put in the time to look at it over and over again. That's the tough part. And it's why I got really into All-22 study for a while and have since done way less. It just takes so much time.

 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2019 by Thurman#1

[YoloinOhio]

3 hours ago, cage said:

 

Amen brother!  People jump on JoeB's analysis regularly, but the reality is that it's the most comprehensive data that we have available to us.  Most everyone else's opinion is a 4th beer fly by from during the game and watching the select highlights.  I really doubt he has any favorites, but is just trying to give an objective grade to each player.  I'm not sure if he does this all himself or if there's anyone else working w/ him, who may have more football coaching experience?  However, I think its valuable input to the various discussions that happen on this board related to this or that player sucks, should be cut or should be immediately re-signed/extended

Right, I’m not taking it as gospel but it’s more than I  am able to see sitting on my couch for 3 hours on Sunday. It just one piece of analysis from a guy watching all-22. If there are other all 22s out there that people have access to they should post them. I don’t have a cover 1 subscription 

Edited November 27, 2019 by YoloinOhio

[badassgixxer05]

15 minutes ago, soflabillsfan1 said:

Man, we have some thin-skinned fans.

Most are just reacting to the pump the brakes on Cody Ford vs Von Miller love headline. Ford did his job whether it was 1 v 1 or 2 v 1 is irrelevant. He played a part in shutting down one of the best in game, so that in turn deserves some love. 

[cage]

5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Right, I’m not taking it as gospel but it’s more than I  am able to see sitting on my couch for 3 hours on Sunday. It just one piece of analysis from a guy watching all-22. If there are other all 22s out there that people have access to they should post them. I don’t have a cover 1 subscription 

 

Cover1 is outstanding work!!  However, he picks and chooses what he finds interesting to showcase and then does an outstanding job at it.  He doesn't grade each player, each week over the course of the season.  As you point out all this is just another input to shape our understanding of the team and its players.  As has been stated above I don't like it when one of us points to the JoeB analysis as a counterpoint to "xxxx sucks" and then the response to that is "JoeB sucks" so that doesn't count

Edited November 27, 2019 by cage

[soflabillsfan1]

1 minute ago, badassgixxer05 said:

Most are just reacting to the pump the brakes on Cody Ford vs Von Miller love headline. Ford did his job whether it was 1 v 1 or 2 v 1 is irrelevant. He played a part in shutting down one of the best in game, so that in turn deserves some love. 

I think Joe's right.  Ford has a long way to go.  I'm glad he had help on Miller.  If left alone, it probably would have been a disaster.  This is the NFL.  It's constant critiquing. 

[YoloinOhio]

5 minutes ago, badassgixxer05 said:

Most are just reacting to the pump the brakes on Cody Ford vs Von Miller love headline. Ford did his job whether it was 1 v 1 or 2 v 1 is irrelevant. He played a part in shutting down one of the best in game, so that in turn deserves some love. 

I think Joe B believes some fans think Ford contained miller 1:1. No one really thought that on this board, so our expectations were met in the sense that we gave him the proper amount of “love” for a rookie carrying out his assignment and not hurting the team in his first full game at RT against an all pro speed rusher, the type he’s struggled with to this point. But some parts of the fan base may not really see the nuance. 

Edited November 27, 2019 by YoloinOhio

[badassgixxer05]

Just now, soflabillsfan1 said:

I think Joe's right.  Ford has a long way to go.  I'm glad he had help on Miller.  If left alone, it probably would have been a disaster.  This is the NFL.  It's constant critiquing. 

Anyone left alone on Miller all game is cause for disaster imo... Ford is a rookie and for sure has some ways to go, but id take this game as a positive and he should be proud of the performance. On to Dallas!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Thurman#1 said:

Questioning his breakdown chops is fair ... if you're then going back and doing your own breakdowns. But that's not what is happening here.

 

I don't follow that at all. 

As a matter of fact, I do do my own all-22 breakdown most weeks though I don't do it to "grade" and wouldn't want to pretend to

But why must one complete a task oneself to critique it or to question someone's qualifications to perform it? 

 

I don't have to be a roofer myself to look across the street and say that the guys roofing the neighbor's house are half-assing the flashing and using safety lines in a manner they shouldn't be used, do I?  I just need to understand how flashing is supposed to work, and that safety lines are supposed to be protection against a fall, not something you hang from while hammering instead of working off a scaffold or ladder.

 

1 minute ago, Thurman#1 said:

People disagree with the message so they're saying that the messenger must suck. These are all people who didn't like the message responding angrily:

 

Would you say a guy telling him to "enjoy the win", another saying he sounds like Sully, and a third pointing out that he may be casting as criticism something that's actually good play design qualifies as being "attacked relentlessly"? 

 

As an example of a relentless attack, I'd say it seems pretty weak sauce.

 

 

[ILBillsfan]

7 hours ago, JimKellyTryouts said:

Von to Buffalo 2020 gitrdun

I'll pass

[Don Otreply]

11 hours ago, Bangarang said:

His job isn’t to be a fan. 

This is true, but in reality Ford was fine, the game plan worked, and Ford was a big part of it on the right side, so it’s a non issue as to that game. Much ado about virtually nothing. Anyway the Bills offense dominated the Denver Defense. And that end result is a good sign imo. Coulda shoulda mighta don't count.

 

Go Bills!!!

[TPS]

2 hours ago, Distorted One said:

Can someone please post the parts about Josh and Ed? 

Yeah, my untrained eye says Ed was a beast in that game. His sack was a perfect example of his skills.

I hope Tomorrow turns out to be his coming out party for a national audience. 

[YoloinOhio]

2 hours ago, Distorted One said:

Can someone please post the parts about Josh and Ed? 

It’s a paid site so I’m not really allowed to post it all. I’ll find some snippets 

 

Allen clearly is showing an introspective side — an element to his personality that has the Bills excited about how high he can climb. He’s also showing the signs of thinking through the play even during the high-pressure seconds within the pocket. Even on Allen’s interception that he appeared to airmail upon the initial viewing, it was a calculated decision. Allen thought he spotted no help to the safety over the top and lofted the pass to John Brown expecting him to run a deep post. Allen didn’t see the safety, which he said disguised himself in the coverage, yet Brown did. As a result, Brown flattened the route into a crosser, which made the throw appear like a complete misfire. 

 

In addition to thinking through the game more effectively, Allen has also gradually quickened his processing. Over the last four games, Allen has improved upon what had been a flaw early in the season: making a decision quicker.

Edited November 27, 2019 by YoloinOhio

[YoloinOhio]

 Over the last three games, the rookie has outshined Phillips, making a compelling case to retake the starting job. It all has to do with consistency in both phases. While Phillips has the advantage in finished plays as a pass-rusher, Oliver generates more consistent pressure in his limited reps. The statistics are beginning to back that up, as well. Oliver has two sacks over the last two games and set up the Bills for numerous sacks and incompletions because of his push up front.

As a run defender, Oliver is the superior player as well as he holds his ground more effectively and consistently than his teammate.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

9 hours ago, Bangarang said:

I’ve been reading Joe’s stuff for a while and I’ve never known him to be a tool, especially when giving his take on the All-22. He’s generally fair and objective in his evaluations.

 

..  Your opinion ^^ 

 

I've been reading Bills beat reporters stuff for 40 years and post the SB era they all became cantankerous tools 

 

Enjoy the win and stop bitching  >> My opinion

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Bills’ Cody Ford passes battle with flying colors, earns praise from Von Miller

https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2019/11/bills-cody-ford-passes-battle-with-flying-colors-earns-praise-from-von-miller.html

 

Von Miller, 30, can still dominate football games. He’s been named to seven Pro Bowls, seven All-Pro teams and is a former Super Bowl MVP.

 

Miller would be a huge test for the rookie right tackle.

 

Ford was not perfect on Sunday, but he passed his first test following Nsekhe’s injury with flying colors. Post-game, Ford mentioned that Miller had the fastest first step he has seen to date. ESPN’s Marcel Louis-Jacques told Miller about Ford’s comments before asking the veteran to assess Ford’s play.

 

“(Ford) played well. Wish I could have had a couple more chances, but he played well. (Dion) Dawkins played well too. I think in unison with Josh Allen they played a good game. They did well. Cody should feel good about the way he played today. Dawkins should too.”

 

Miller’s chances to get after Josh Allen were limited. Buffalo attempted just 25 passes in the victory as they ran all over the Broncos. To Miller’s credit, he recorded Denver’s only sack in Week 12 while finishing with two tackles for loss.

[YoloinOhio]

21 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

This is true, but in reality Ford was fine, the game plan worked, and Ford was a big part of it on the right side, so it’s a non issue as to that game. Much ado about virtually nothing. Anyway the Bills offense dominated the Denver Defense. And that end result is a good sign imo. Coulda shoulda mighta don't count.

 

Go Bills!!!

Joe B said the same.