Joe B. All-22 from Broncos game - pump the brakes on Cody Ford vs Von Miller love

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, BurpleBull said:

With all the help Ford received blocking him, how can you be sure Miller wasn't being sarcastic? 

or just kind to a young guy?

 

i haven’t watched the match up but it’s not crazy for a vet to toss a kind word sometimes 

[YoloinOhio]

6 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Man Joe B loves him some Jerry Hughes! Always has him at or near the top, week after week, season after season.

PFF had him rated high after this game too, and a saw the Broncos are considering benching Garrett Bowles after last week. So must have been good, but I didn’t really notice him.

[billsbackto81]

Hey Joe, how about just giving the coaches props for knowing how to game plan the situation. Not many tackles win the battles with Von Miller.

[Bangarang]

2 hours ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

is he job to be a tool?

 
How many sacks did they give up?

 

lets not pretend the Broncos defense sucked 

lets not pretend players don’t need assistance double teaming good players 

 

 

Is he still a rookie making good plays?

 

 

I’ve been reading Joe’s stuff for a while and I’ve never known him to be a tool, especially when giving his take on the All-22. He’s generally fair and objective in his evaluations.

[Johnnycage46]

I like Joe B and his Buffalo Beat podcast....but that being said...what pedigree does he have to breakdown film?  Even with A+ for every play it still is mostly a subjective take for a reporter who has no real experience with NFL games to decide what the right reads are or what the right assignments are.

 

I say this knowing full well that even if he graded the Bills as the best ever it still leads one to question how the hell he would know.

[Thurman#1]

25 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said:

I like Joe B and his Buffalo Beat podcast....but that being said...what pedigree does he have to breakdown film?  Even with A+ for every play it still is mostly a subjective take for a reporter who has no real experience with NFL games to decide what the right reads are or what the right assignments are.

 

I say this knowing full well that even if he graded the Bills as the best ever it still leads one to question how the hell he would know.

 

 

It just isn't as difficult as people make it out to be.

 

Yeah, there will be a few plays where things will be ambiguous. But anyone breaking down film is going to go out of their way to not make judgments based on the ambiguous plays. Joe B. has said much the same thing, as has PFF.

 

But most plays are real obvious. A guy rushes, the OL moves to engage, the DL bats his hands away, gets past and gets a sack. Is this real hard to figure out? A DL rushes, the OL engages and stands up to the rush, keeping the DL out till the pass is thrown. Is it difficult to know what happened? You don't have to be a rocket scientist. 90%, maybe 95% are very plain. And if it's not plain who was supposed to pick up a rusher on a 6 on 5 blitz, you don't grade a guy down. This is how it's done, and it's just not that hard in terms of figuring it out. What's hard is putting in the very large amounts of time and energy to do a thorough job, which is why so very few do it unless a team is paying them.

[Thurman#1]

4 hours ago, Bubba Gump said:

 

No kidding. He's starting to sound like Sully

 

 

I know. I can't believe these guys who have the temerity to say that a Buffalo Bills player might not have had a spectacular game in a win. Players for other teams, sure, it just makes sense that in a team game, one guy might not have a great game, even in a win.

 

But with the Bills, shut up! We don't want to hear reason or neutrality.

 

 

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Hmmm Hmmm who to believe:  the all-22 review of 9-year radio veteran Joe Buscaglia, or the praise of 7x probowl, 3x all-pro OLB Von Miller saying Ford should feel good about how he played?  Hmmm Hmmm

 

Most OTs who don't get some help against Von Miller wind up watching their QB on "spin cycle" as Miller "brings his laundry" into the backfield all game long.

 

And yes, telling your QB that he needs to have a faster clock against all-pro pass rushers is part of the game too, as is giving the QB just "enough" time (like the Beasley TD where they left Motor on his own to hold off an LB.  The LB eventually moved him aside, but Singletary held long enough for the TD pass to be thrown)

 

 

 

 

Remind me, where did Joe say anything that contradicted Miller? Did Joe say Ford played badly?

 

Miller might well think that even guys who allow him three or four sacks played well to avoid giving him another ten.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Thurman#1

[Locomark]

I watched the all Athletic 5 the other day and it showed Joe B should have flagged six times for illegal use of a laptop.

He isn’t Greg Cosell or Cover One. He’s a hack. It’s not that I don’t think he has the right to say negative things, it’s that I watch the game over and I think what he points out is amateur hour. 

[JimKellyTryouts]

Von to Buffalo 2020 gitrdun

[cage]

4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

It just isn't as difficult as people make it out to be.

 

Yeah, there will be a few plays where things will be ambiguous. But anyone breaking down film is going to go out of their way to not make judgments based on the ambiguous plays. Joe B. has said much the same thing, as has PFF.

 

But most plays are real obvious. A guy rushes, the OL moves to engage, the DL bats his hands away, gets past and gets a sack. Is this real hard to figure out? A DL rushes, the OL engages and stands up to the rush, keeping the DL out till the pass is thrown. Is it difficult to know what happened? You don't have to be a rocket scientist. 90%, maybe 95% are very plain. And if it's not plain who was supposed to pick up a rusher on a 6 on 5 blitz, you don't grade a guy down. This is how it's done, and it's just not that hard in terms of figuring it out. What's hard is putting in the very large amounts of time and energy to do a thorough job, which is why so very few do it unless a team is paying them.

 

Amen brother!  People jump on JoeB's analysis regularly, but the reality is that it's the most comprehensive data that we have available to us.  Most everyone else's opinion is a 4th beer fly by from during the game and watching the select highlights.  I really doubt he has any favorites, but is just trying to give an objective grade to each player.  I'm not sure if he does this all himself or if there's anyone else working w/ him, who may have more football coaching experience?  However, I think its valuable input to the various discussions that happen on this board related to this or that player sucks, should be cut or should be immediately re-signed/extended

Edited November 27, 2019 by cage

[oldmanfan]

Why is having any RT get some help blocking a star like Miller a big deal?

[cage]

58 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Why is having any RT get some help blocking a star like Miller a big deal?

 

Its not.  The main point is that the outcome wasn't Ford on his own handling Miller.  Given that absence of hearing Miller's name during the game, many assumed that Ford handled him, however the video analysis shows that he had lots of help in the process.  Nothing wrong with that.  Mission accomplished!  Well done by the coaching staff, scheming, game planning and player execution which includes Ford, but the All-22 analysis seeks to individually grade each player

Edited November 27, 2019 by cage

[Apocalypse Nuts]

Can someone please post the parts about Josh and Ed? 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 hours ago, BillsVet said:

It's amazing how many people here demand that the media align their coverage with the opinions of hardcore fans.  And if they don't, they are attacked relentlessly.

Objectivity and differing opinions are not a bad thing. 

 

I guess I'm wondering what is the definition of "attacked relentlessly"?

I see one post slinging a mild insult "tool", maybe two if "enjoy the game" counts as an attack?

 

The rest appear to be differing opinions and a few questioning Joe's film breakdown chops, which I think is fair it's not like he's a former OL coach. 

Where are the relentless attacks?

[oldmanfan]

47 minutes ago, cage said:

 

Its not.  The main point is that the outcome wasn't Ford on his own handling Miller.  Given that absence of hearing Miller's name during the game, many assumed that Ford handled him, however the video analysis shows that he had lots of help in the process.  Nothing wrong with that.  Mission accomplished!  Well done by the coaching staff, scheming, game planning and player execution which includes Ford, but the All-22 analysis seeks to individually grade each player

That's a flaw in the all-22 analysis.  It assumes that the reviewer knows the assignments of a given player and such.  It also assumes the reviewer is knowledgeable enough about the intricacies of football that the opinion is of value.  I confess I don't watch these all 22 things or similar sites because to me football is the ultimate team game, so an individual grade on a player (and given the caveats above) aren't of interest.  For those fixated on such Joe B may be right on point or way off.  He has his job to do and I think from what I've read of his past material he is a good writer and takes his analysis seriously.

 

 Either way Miller didn't do much and my team won; the latter is all I really care about in the end.

[Mr. WEO]

10 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Hmmm Hmmm who to believe:  the all-22 review of 9-year radio veteran Joe Buscaglia, or the praise of 7x probowl, 3x all-pro OLB Von Miller saying Ford should feel good about how he played?  Hmmm Hmmm

 

Most OTs who don't get some help against Von Miller wind up watching their QB on "spin cycle" as Miller "brings his laundry" into the backfield all game long.

 

And yes, telling your QB that he needs to have a faster clock against all-pro pass rushers is part of the game too, as is giving the QB just "enough" time (like the Beasley TD where they left Motor on his own to hold off an LB.  The LB eventually moved him aside, but Singletary held long enough for the TD pass to be thrown)

 

 

 

He said; "he played well". 

[Mark80]

I don't care who or how we stopped him.  The fact remains the same, I didn't even notice him on the field.  Not once that I can remember.  And that is a win.

[JinxedBill]

I mean Von is a SB MVP. Cody should get help.  Anyone should get help.  ESP if it’s a rook over there.

 

Good analysis as always but the tone was not agreeable. We’re on to the boys

[cage]

40 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

That's a flaw in the all-22 analysis.  It assumes that the reviewer knows the assignments of a given player and such.  It also assumes the reviewer is knowledgeable enough about the intricacies of football that the opinion is of value.  I confess I don't watch these all 22 things or similar sites because to me football is the ultimate team game, so an individual grade on a player (and given the caveats above) aren't of interest.  For those fixated on such Joe B may be right on point or way off.  He has his job to do and I think from what I've read of his past material he is a good writer and takes his analysis seriously.

 

 Either way Miller didn't do much and my team won; the latter is all I really care about in the end.

 

Fair enough and you're right.  Here is the disclaimer that he puts in each article as he dives into the grades.  He doesn't appear to be doing it by himself.  He probably should state who else is part of the grading.  I've bolded statements that acknowledge the potential shortcomings of the work.  However, I'll stand by that this has to be a more objective review of each player than people who just watched the TV broadcast (even re-watched it) and could only observe select highlights.

 

How the standards work

Every Tuesday, when the All-22 film becomes available, we’ll go through and watch every player on every play as many times as necessary to assess letter grades. It is a subjective analysis, and it’s important to note we do not know the play calls and full responsibilities. The grades stem from technique, effort and presumed liability.

The study accounts only for players who take a snap on offense or defense. Players with fewer than 15 snaps — unless they have a significant impact on the game — will not factor into weekly rankings.

Season-long grades will be tallied and documented, with a single game’s grade weighted based on how much the player was on the field in a given week.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 hours ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

is he job to be a tool?

 How many sacks did they give up?

 

lets not pretend the Broncos defense sucked 

lets not pretend players don’t need assistance double teaming good players 

 

Is he still a rookie making good plays?

 

Easy, Big Fella.  It's not being a tool to publish reasoned critique of a player.

1 sack, but we all know there would have been more if Allen didn't have a "stiff-arm like Bo Jackson" and "moves like Jaggar"

 

I take it with a grain of salt because all-22 of OL are hard when people don't know what was supposed to happen, and yes, many OTs in the league need help against Miller and Ford is a rookie making good plays - as even Joe B acknowledges.

 

But it's just his opinion when all's said and done.  My only quarrel is with people who believe it's an objective analysis.  Even Joe B states "it is a subjective analysis and it's important to note we do not know the play calls and full responsibilities"