fansince88 Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 1 hour ago, NoSaint said: I bet I can guess your race and gender while I think we sometimes get carried away- it doesn’t shock me that people get excited to identify with successes Interesting that you would race and gender profile me. Thst said, my point is you never hear about the first (insert race or gender) of your choice that committed a crime. We dont say most yards by a black vs white rb. Because that is wrong. Your reply shows a bit of ignorance imho. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 10 hours ago, Bferra13 said: Lol what is this crap? Whatever a Freddie Coleman is, I'm pretty sure he wont have a job tomorrow if he did this list on ESPN's dime as noted. I'm as anti PC culture as anyone, but a qb is a qb. I dont see race factoring into my judgment of how good or bad a qubby is. Would Best Leftie QBs, or Best Big Ten QBs be okay? If so, you're choosing to be upset by this list. And FWIW, if Moon or Cunningham aren't on the list, it's a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 11 hours ago, NC Book said: How about the top 10 white rbs? Would Tim Tindale crack that list? Wasn't ole Tim primarily a fullback? I remember him toting the rock quite a bit, but don't think he'd qualify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 10 minutes ago, purple haze said: Divisive to whom? I would say to you that the reasons behind there being a first "this" or "that" is why the accomplishment is emphasized. I dont have a first white friend. I dont have a first Black friend. I dont have a first Chineese friend. I have multiple friends. The human race is just that. A complete race of people. I get the accomplishment of the first in the sport but not the first in the position. It reads in the OP post as if being a black QB is some great feat and their quality in the sport cant be compared to that of a white QB. I have racist companions that think a black man cant be a quality qb and have had some pretty heated arguments against that mentality. That is my point. We do not live in a world (for the most part) where race is considered when being put on the field 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter McGavin Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 Top 5 Pakistani NFL Quarterbacks 1. Gibran Hamdan 2. N/A 3. N/A 4. N/A 5. N/A 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 12 hours ago, John Gianelli said: On ESPN radio just now, Freddie Coleman chose as his top 5 black quarterbacks 1) Doug Williams 2) Steve McNair 3) James Harris 4) Michael Vick 5) Marlin Briscoe Harris played quarterback for the Bills. Briscoe was a wide receiver with the Bills, but he did attempt 3 passes. I'm surprised he didn't have Russell Wilson or Randall Cunningham in his top 5. I will state there has to be a qualifier that you are unaware of, such as which college they went to- Warren Moon and McNabb are far better than any QB on that list as is Wilson and Cunningham as you mentioned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 14 minutes ago, fansince88 said: Interesting that you would race and gender profile me. Thst said, my point is you never hear about the first (insert race or gender) of your choice that committed a crime. We dont say most yards by a black vs white rb. Because that is wrong. Your reply shows a bit of ignorance imho. super edgy! Was just pointing out that as a largely white male group here, there may be elements at play in the talk of why other races and genders feel the way they do that many here won’t fully understand. As it’s a football thread let’s call it a day here. Plus, I have no desire to debate it. to the list, without context in the OP I’d guess hearing that it was a radio show maybe it came About conversationally and wasn’t prepped for in advance causing names to fall through the cracks? 1 minute ago, Buffalo Timmy said: I will state there has to be a qualifier that you are unaware of, such as which college they went to- Warren Moon and McNabb are far better than any QB on that list as is Wilson and Cunningham as you mentioned With such obvious omissions I jump straight to then shooting from the hip and just spacing on some options that could be on it. But could be a weird qualifier added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, NoSaint said: super edgy! Was just pointing out that as a largely white male group here, there may be elements at play in the talk of why other races and genders feel the way they do that many here won’t fully understand. As it’s a football thread let’s call it a day here. Plus, I have no desire to debate it. to the list, without context in the OP I’d guess hearing that it was a radio show maybe it came About conversationally and wasn’t prepped for in advance causing names to fall through the cracks? With such obvious omissions I jump straight to then shooting from the hip and just spacing on some options that could be on it. But could be a weird qualifier Ok. Although you debated it and ended with I dont want to debate it I will leave it alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 I honestly didn’t see this topic as divisive or crazy. I really just looked at it as a football topic. To me the debate is “most important black QB” vs. “best black QB.” Those aren’t the same. There were a bunch of pioneers like Doug Williams. With that being said, Russell Wilson is a way better player. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 5 hours ago, st pete gogolak said: It can't be "best". It has to be "most historic" or "most significant". Briscoe played some QB for the Broncos before coming over to the Bills. Harris I believe was first starting black QB. Williams won a Super Bowl, etc. I think you're on to something: 1) Doug Williams -1st to be a 1st round pick in the NFL & 1st to win a Super Bowl 2) Steve McNair-3rd pick in the draft, 2nd to start a Super Bowl 3) James Harris-1st to start a season as a starting QB 4) Michael Vick-1st to be the #1 pick of the entire draft 5) Marlin Briscoe-1st to be a starting QB (one year before Harris became the 1st to start a season opener) In all probability, since the 2 leading MVP candidates are black QBs, there was a discussion about the history of the black QB and these 5 were deemed the most historical who paved the way for this generation of black QBs. It is a significant topic because without these pioneers, Russell Wilson may have been deemed too short to ever get the chance & Lamar Jackson may have been told to be a WR, like Briscoe ended up & Bill Polian said he should be before the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearwater cadet Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 why does espn care if a QB is white or black? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 1 hour ago, NoSaint said: I bet I can guess your race and gender while I think we sometimes get carried away- it doesn’t shock me that people get excited to identify with successes I have never understood why there’s this emphasis to have the same skin color to identify with an athlete. Why can’t a young black running back in middle schoo look up to CMC? Why a white high school QB can’t imagine himself as a Vince Young or a Mike Vick? It’s quite an interesting phenomenon that’s seemingly isolated to football. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Gugny said: I just don't find it necessary to segregate when ranking anything. Rank the best QBs, period. I realize the position has historically been dominated by white men; just like the CB and WR positions have historically been dominated by black men. Why don't we see a "Best White WRs of All Time," list? Optics. That's why. It's not just sports. Forbes made a list titled, "The Black Billionaires 2019." Again ... I get it. It wasn't that long ago that MLK marched and was subsequently assassinated. But these kinds of lists, regardless of their intention, do nothing but perpetuate segregation. I just think it's dumb. My living family can tell you stories of black homes being burned down for moving into white neighborhoods in south buffalo. It isn’t dumb and people shouldn’t just get over it and move forward, because it isn’t all equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 9 minutes ago, clearwater cadet said: why does espn care if a QB is white or black? I really don’t think that they care. A caller raised a topic and the host went with it. 8 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: I have never understood why there’s this emphasis to have the same skin color to identify with an athlete. Why can’t a young black running back in middle schoo look up to CMC? Why a white high school QB can’t imagine himself as a Vince Young or a Mike Vick? It’s quite an interesting phenomenon that’s seemingly isolated to football. Bill Simmons used to talk about this. No one ever compares players across races. It’s so funny because Josh’s best comparison, imo, is Cam Newton (and it’s not that close). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I really don’t think that they care. A caller raised a topic and the host went with it. Bill Simmons used to talk about this. No one ever compares players across races. It’s so funny because Josh’s best comparison, imo, is Cam Newton (and it’s not that close). It’s so football oriented. White kids and black kids play basketball and imagine themselves as Curry, Harden, Durant, Lebron, etc etc. But when they play football, it has to be the Adam Thielen’s vs the Mike Vick’s for whatever weird reason. It’s probably media driven honestly. I still want to be Randy Moss. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 (edited) 40 minutes ago, fansince88 said: I dont have a first white friend. I dont have a first Black friend. I dont have a first Chineese friend. I have multiple friends. The human race is just that. A complete race of people. I get the accomplishment of the first in the sport but not the first in the position. It reads in the OP post as if being a black QB is some great feat and their quality in the sport cant be compared to that of a white QB. I have racist companions that think a black man cant be a quality qb and have had some pretty heated arguments against that mentality. That is my point. We do not live in a world (for the most part) where race is considered when being put on the field I'm guessing from your name you weren't around when race was considered when it came to QBs. Good for you & your generation, but it clearly was a factor back in the 60s, 70s & 80s and the years before those decades. It was only around the 1990s that things changed to the point that your last statement is now true. Here's what the Buffalo Evening News said the day after Harris was drafted: (From Relentless P158): "...in the eighth round , they selected James Harris, a black quarterback from Grambling. A Buffalo Evening News headline read: ' A 6-4 N-egro QB, Harris, drafted 8th by the Bills.' The story said Harris 'is a n-egro, one of the few of his race to be drafted as a quarterback in pro football.' " Edited November 23, 2019 by Albany,n.y. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 1 hour ago, cage said: DeShawn Watson is already better than Briscoe,... Com'n Man! I just looked it up and he played a single season as a QB with the following stats, the rest of his career he was a WR: Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD 1968 23 DEN QB 15 11 5 2-3-0 93 224 41.5 1589 14 6.3 13 5.8 66 7.1 5.7 17.1 144.5 62.9 1 2 Definitely KMart...23 Oak Street...definitely 23 Oak Street Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookie Man Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said: Wasn't ole Tim primarily a fullback? I remember him toting the rock quite a bit, but don't think he'd qualify. Ha yes. I couldn't pull any other names of white Bills RB's off the top of my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 1 hour ago, fansince88 said: I dont have a first white friend. I dont have a first Black friend. I dont have a first Chineese friend. I have multiple friends. The human race is just that. A complete race of people. I get the accomplishment of the first in the sport but not the first in the position. It reads in the OP post as if being a black QB is some great feat and their quality in the sport cant be compared to that of a white QB. I have racist companions that think a black man cant be a quality qb and have had some pretty heated arguments against that mentality. That is my point. We do not live in a world (for the most part) where race is considered when being put on the field Bolded taints your entire premise. We still do, but it’s getting better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 14 hours ago, RufusTheMad said: Warren Moon? Not having him and Cunningham over Vick makes that list completely ridiculous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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